Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

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nola
He didn't need to give any thing away.The girls knowing him as a local handy man he could have simply said"Hay we got some baby rabbits and chicks on our small little family farm want to come by and see them.?"The girls"We have to be home by 4PM"Perp"No problem my family farm is 15/20 min away I can meet you plenty of time for you to ride there see them and then get you home by 4PM.After all I work odd jobs in your neighborhood so I know where you live"Girls"Ok that's cool.We will meet you outside of ?????at such and such a time"Perp"It's a deal see you both then"
 
So this make great sense... an Organized perp who targeted young girls from neighborhoods surrounding the mall. The Lyons sister just happen to be convenient that day. As with Bundy's many targets.
Wonder if extensive interviews were done with residence of other neighborhoods that were within walking distance of the mall...and where young girls and boys lived and regularly traveled by foot --- who (what person) stands out as "that guy" - Mr. Fix-It; always friendly with youngsters; living alone or just him and spouse; always having something that the kids are interested in? Then suddenly moved within (as you say 6 months of the Lyons sisters disappearance?
 
nola
Good questions and I am sure police interviewed people.
That said the characteristics of a serial killer and child abductors wasn't even thought of yet so I doubt any one would have given the local handy man or handy men a second thought.Being the the area was a residential DC area I'm sure there was more than one person doing odd jobs.Especially sense there was a recession and oil embargo by the Arabs.
A perfect example of police questions."Any strangers/ any one who doesn't belong around the neighbor hood?Any one acting strange driving through looking at places or children?Any reports by your children of being approached by stranger/strangers"Any local handy men people had seen them there fixing things and as a result they were known in the area.

As I said sense serial killers were unheard of even though they were there just no one connected the dots yet.No one would have given a local handy man a second glance.

As for 6 months I just picked that as a number.My point it maybe they left the area some time later after the press forgot about the missing girls and life went back to normal for everyone else.Maybe they moved on purpose maybe they got a job elsewhere sense most serial killers seem to live at home maybe the parents sold the small farm be cause they couldn't afford it be cause of the economy and moved elsewhere in the country to where jobs were. After all the cost of living in the DC area was high even back then.Not to mention Montgomery County was a growing area and still is.to this day

As for an organized perp maybe maybe not.Maybe even though he was known in the area he didn't decide to do it until he saw the girls walking to the mall or while at the mall.Then again having seen the girls while doing odd jobs he singled them out.I'm inclined to believe it is a little bit of both that seeing the girls and deciding to do it.That said it doesn't mean he had not thought about it fantasized about it first.






I was going to edit a post but then the other posts wouldn't make any sense.

While as I said above "Based on what I posted and the characteristics
I am sticking with this theory
Male age 20 to 30 a local handy man who lived with parents in a local very small farm.(Not unheard of sense the area was not as crowded as today)
He knew the girls and the girls knew of him from doing work in the neighborhood
Went to the mall told the girls about baby rabbits at his parents small farm 15 to 20min away.The girls knew the person in passing from local handy man work knew they could see the babies and be driven home in plenty of time so went with him.
Few months later the family sold the land to a developer and it became a housing division or Condo place."


I wouldn't rule out a person passing through and being a handy man either.They could live in a near by motel and could have been around for several months already so still be known to the neighbor hood.

Also I wouldn't rule out some one living there either.Some one who had a 20 to 30 year old son living at home.Who maybe moved back be cause of the recession.This person having grown up there would have been known.Or moved back to the family home for a million other reasons.The parents could be alive still or maybe not.

Oh Wow!!! I just remembered it was Easter Spring Break for schools I was 15 in Southern Pg County and we were out for Spring Break too. Allot of colleges have their spring breaks then.Age 20-30 some one home from college for Easter or Spring break maybe.They would be known in the neighbor hood then and thus not a stranger.Then quickly return to college no one thinking the wiser.After graduation from college they could be living any where today


Homes were not searched unless people volunteered to do so.Even then you most likely wouldn't find anything.Having taken them else where and rural areas were not all that far then.Also remember it was the height of the Cold War and the DC area people did build bomb shelters.Which would make a perfect place to hide the girls
 
Good discussion regarding possible scenarios.

The general description or characteristics of Serial Killers was developed in the 1980's by an FBI special investigative unit which interviewed a lot of serail killers in prisons. And they are similarities or generalizations which many - if not most - serial killers fit. There is no actual formula as to what makes a serial killer. Some fit the entire list while others might only exhibit (or admit to) a few of the characteristics.

As to the timeline, keep in mind that it is somewhat rough and pieced together from the statements from several kids and adults. Not all of them were certain of the times. One boy, age 12, was quoted by newspapers as stating that he saw the girls headed toward the mall at 7PM. His testimony was later disregarded by police as being way out of sync with others. But to this day, he still maintains that he saw them and tells the same story, although not the time that the papers quoted him as giving. And he may have said that they were going away from the mall rather than toward it.

As to Mr. Mann's testimony, I have never seen him quoted or cited as a witness untill a few years ago when he was interviewed by a reporter doing an anniversary article. He may have seen them that day headed home as he states. One of the first things I would do as an investigator would be to go through the police records to see what he told investigators at the time.

25 March would be a bit early for baby ducks, chicks, and bunnies. Possible, certainly but still a bit early. Ducks and Chicks would have to come from a hatchery some where. Bunnies could be born locally any time of year, but cold weather is usually fatal to them unless great care is taken to keep them warm. Remember that bunnies have to be 6 to 8 weeks old before they are old enough to leave their mother. So for bunnies to be old enough to be sold at Easter in 1975, they would have had to been born in early February.

Of course, this does not preclude someone from SAYING that they have bunnies or birds to show the girls.
 
Thanks for explaining James Mann,and the kid.The fact he sticks to his story is interesting.That he saw them leaving the mall.I just remembered the Spring forward time change had not occurred yet so it was still getting dark early.His time could be off thinking it was later than it actually was be cause of this

Yes though not in season for babies yet most city people have no clue of that so the person could have said they had some.


Yes that is true serial killers don't fit every characteristic.Sense we have no idea of the perps child hood we don't know.That said my "Wow moment" Two characteristics are high IQ and average age 20-30.College student age 20-22 home on spring break living in the nieghbor hood.

I must admit I didn't realize this possibility be cause it was just too obvious for one thing.As a result it just keeps getting over looked. I admit I only thought of it a few min ago hearing a news report of Joran van der Sloot who most likely killed Natalee Halloway and the girl in Peru.I'd bet money they are not his only victims either.Just the two that got investigated/found then investigated.

Any way the college student theory might be a good one.It would explain allot of things.

As for other victims mentioned in neighboring states around the same time.They could be where the person went to college,had to travel to and from home and even eventually settled after graduation and starting a career.

Just a thought.Sheila being the oldest might have been the target but couldn't be taken with out Katherine left behind as a witness.





An adjustment my theory

Male age 20-22 high IQ home on spring break from college.
He either planned it or it was a on the spot decision.Either way I'd say he fantasized about it before hand.
Shelia being a teen maybe she had a secret crush on this person.

Planned or not he saw the girls at the mall and offered a ride home or saw the girls on their way home offered a ride.Being three teen looking people talking no one would give it a second glance if he ran into them at the mall.nor would any one give a second glance them getting into a car with another young person.

He either in conversation at the mall or once picking them up for the ride home told the truth or lied about family on a small area farm having baby animals and would they like to see them.

No disrespect for Shelia here but if she did have a secret crush on the person like most teen girls she would jump at the chance for a car ride.

He drove them either to a small area farm either family or not.When the girls walked into the small barn he knocked one out and well...................................


Please remember I said if Shelia had a secret crush.I didn't say she did but it must be considered.After all remember when we be came teens we had our secret crushes be cause we didn't want to look foolish we didn't tell a soul. We also had friends our parents didn't even know about.It is a teens way of developing independence after all.
 
Richard, was it you who suggested that the boy meant 11am and not 7pm? Has he repeated his account then and stuck with 7pm?
 
Richard, was it you who suggested that the boy meant 11am and not 7pm? Has he repeated his account then and stuck with 7pm?

I had suggested as a possibility that the 12 year-old boy may have been misquoted or he may have mispoken regarding the 7 (or 7:30?) PM siting.

He was quoted by the Washington Post as saying that at that time he had just finished playing basketball at a friend's house and was jogging past Sheila and Kate in the vicinity of Drumm and Faulkner. He said that he had passed the girls and then turned to look back at them.

The Post named the boy, which to me indicates that they spoke with him, rather than getting the information from police. Police declined to name other witnesses, juvenile or adult in their press conferences. It was the Post which stated that the boy, David saw the girls headed TOWARD the mall and that it was at around 7PM.

The problem with that is that it was dark by 7PM and of course, this was very late for the girls to be out going in any direction. The police stated a few days later (around 28 March) in one of their press briefings that they were inclined to not believe the siting because the time was so far out of what they thought they knew of the case.

That same boy has recently posted in another on-line site that he believes that he was one of the last persons to have seen the girls, describes jogging past them, turning to look at them and says that he knew the girls from school and from the swimming pool the previous summer. He stated that he could point out the exact spot where he saw them. He did not, however, make any reference as to the time he saw them or what direction they were headed in his post.

I would like to comment on an earlier post by Dragonfire which was posted on 7 June. Here is the quote:

"Timeline

Police felt comfortable enough with accuracy of this timeline to release it to the public.

11:00 AM to noon: The girls leave home...."

This timeline was actually NOT released by police. It was origionally written by me several years ago in a post to this forum. Someone borrowed it and sent it to the person who is involved with a forum on astrology, and it was reprinted in that forum. So it has actually made a circuit back to this forum.

I have since posted a more accurate timeline based on more sources and articles. Remember, however, that it is somewhat rough.

One thing that has been reprinted over and over is that the girls' brother Jay saw them at 2PM eating pizza at the Orange Bowl restaurant. This was taken from a Washington Post article printed in 1975. I believe that this may be inaccurate. Jay was interviewed shortly after the girls' disappearance by a reporter for the Washington Star newspaper and he never said anything about seeing his sisters at the Orange Bowl. He states that he saw them at the Mall center, near the fountain waiting for the Easter Bunny. This was more likely between noon and 1PM.

From what I have subsequently been told, The Orange Bowl was a take-out pizza place which had a counter with some stools, but it was not a sit-down kind of restaurant. They sold pizza by the slice and usually people ate it while walking around the mall or sitting on one of the brick planters in the courtyard hallway.

It was the girls INTENTION to eat at The Orange Bowl according to their mother and they discussed it before leaving for Wheaton Plaza that morning. The witness, "Jimmy" (not his real name but the one used by police and press) and his friend saw Sheila and Kate outside The Orange Bowl talking with the Tape Recorder Man around 1PM. From there, they walked toward the Mall center, and the TRM walked in the opposite direction toward Wards.
 
Thanks Richard for the correction and info.I copied the time line from that astrology place.Mostly it was there and so easier
 
Richard again thanks for the correction and facts.

Now they were seen at 1PM talking to TRM walking off toward mall center and he went towards Wards.

As for Jay's sighting them in the mall center waiting for the Easter Bunny based on Jimmy's sighting time I'd say more like 1/1:30PM maybe 2PM at the latest.

Now David's account I don't discount this be cause he sticks to his story,and as far as any one knows he hasn't made money off of what he says he knows.For example written a book.David seeing them on the way to the mall.Maybe it was around 11AM and he was going home for lunch.The fact the Post said 7PM maybe it was the afternoon and the news paper put the time in rather than what he actually said.He could have said it was getting late and I needed to be home for dinner.Late afternoon even for 3 to 4PM would still look late sense the time change had not happened yet.Remember it was still the end of April first of May for changing your clocks forward.
So maybe for some reason the girls returned to the mall from whoever's home who will do the deed around 3:30PM thinking they had time to see one last thing or get a quick gift/card their family for Easter and have time if they ran home to bet the 4PM time.The perp knowing he couldn't take the chance of people in the neighbor hood seeing the girls enter and not leave let them leave knowing they were returning to the mall for a quick gift/cards,drove back to the mall,and offered them a ride home so they could be home on time.That way the girls left no one saw them get into a car and drive off.At the mall the excuse could have been Hi girls I/we had some quick errands and I/we can give you a ride home in plenty of time.


So this still tells me whoever did this lived in the neighbor hood That he or she or even both were an adult/adults age 20-mid 30s or possible a college student home for Spring Break.I would say they ran into the person while waiting for the Easter Bunny as well.Such a busy area and no one would notice teens talking to an average looking person that they appeared to know while in line waiting for the Easter Bunny.He or she or both maybe made a deal and used possible baby animals as a lure. They went saw ,(Remember last spotted at the mall was between 1-2PM.Drop some time to see the Easter bunny This is a at least a 2 hour missing time before needing to be home.Also the thing to me never reported any way was the fact no one from the Orange Bowl remembered them getting pizza that day when they said they were going to.So maybe they never made it for pizza.)The perp/perps let the girls return to the mall in case some one saw them entering the home.Sense it wasn't far the girls knew they had time to get something quick for an Easter cards/gift and still make it home in time.David sees them going to the mall. Then the perp/perps ambushed them outside in the parking lot offering a quick ride home sense it was close to 4PM.
As I said looking average and the girls knew the person/persons no one paid any attention to it.The perp/perps could feel safe in the plan that there would be no struggle and neighbor hood people wouldn't see them.


Or the girls started home from the mall got part way and remembered they forgot something.Maybe one left something behind while they ate.If they did it eat pizza or something else.This is when David saw them.While back at the mall they ran into the perp/perps who they knew from the neighbor hood and were offered a ride home.In this case a local handy man or better yet some one home on Spring Break from college.

This is the simplest possible event so very much possible.If so a random moment act and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.Or planned the perp/perps could still have been following all day.


Another reason I think they knew the perp from the neighbor hood is kidnapping two people is difficult if a stranger unless it was more than one.People would have remembered some one dressed as a policemen,priest mall security.Those stand out too much.Where as some/someones looking average doesn't so most would ignore it.
Not to be cruel but disposing of one body even for a single individual is difficult let alone two So I won't rule out more than one perp and also if it was a stranger then I'll go with two perps

As difficult as two bodies is there was allot of near by farm land in the area at the time.

A college student doing this wouldn't be unheard of just look at Joran van der Sloot.He is 24 now but 5 years ago was 19 when he killed Halloway,and I'd say she wasn't his first either.
 
I am posting the following information regarding the Lyon sisters' timeline. Note that all of this information was posted earlier on various threads in this forum, but I am trying to bring it together here for clarity and for the purpose of the ongoing discussion in this thread.

Timeline for the Lyon Girls

On Tuesday, 25 March 1975, Sheila M. LYON age 12, and her younger sister, Katherine M. (Kate) LYON age 10 left their home on Plyers Mill Road in Kensington, Maryland to walk to the Wheaton Plaza Shopping Center in Wheaton, located on the corner of University Boulevard and Veirs Mills Road, a distance of about half a mile from their home. The girls were on spring break from school and it was their intention to view Easter exhibits and to have lunch at The Orange Bowl Restaurant.
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Below is a timeline which I have constructed from various sources, mostly news articles and police briefings of the time. It should be considered somewhat rough.

Date 25 March 1975 (Tuesday)

About 10 a.m. The Lyon children were up and eating breakfast and trying to decide what to do that day. The trip to Wheaton Plaza was discussed and Mrs. Lyon thought it would be a good idea for the girls to be home about 3 p.m. The girls stated that they wanted to eat lunch at the Orange Bowl and mentioned that the price of a slice of pizza had just gone up five cents.

About 11 a.m. Katherine is called by her friend and neighbor, Melanie, who invites Katherine to her house to play. Katherine counters with an invitation to accompany Sheila and herself to Wheaton Plaza. Melanie declines, as she cannot obtain her mother's permission. Katherine tells Melanie that she plans to be home by 3 p.m. and for her to call her again at that time.

(Note: according to another source, the day before, a neighbor woman had invited Katherine over to see her new baby that Tuesday afternoon and Katherine had said that she would visit.)

It was 11:30 a.m. as the girls got ready to leave. (quote from a Washington Star article)

Their probable route would have been down Jennings Road, then on a path through a large wooded area, coming out on McComas Road, then to Drumm Ave, up a small dead-end street through some woods to the Wheaton Plaza parking lot.

It is a 15 minute stroll that took the two sisters beyond a series of red brick houses, past the brick home of Fred Sigmon, a retired federal employee, and his wife, who have lived there 16 years, past the home where Don Anderson, 18, an Einstein high school student lives with his parents, brother and puppy, and through a wooded area the size of two city blocks.

The wooded path brought them out to a clearing behind the white two-story house of Mrs. Mary Tolker, mother of four, and a former principal of Potomac Elementary School. But Mrs. Tolker wasn't out gardening in her backyard the day the Lyon girls walked to the plaza. She had a dentist appointment at 11 a.m.

The clearing near Mrs. Tolker's garden opens onto McComas Avenue where the Kensington Gardens Nursing Home sits on the right. The route to Wheaton Plaza continues across McComas, up Drumm Avenue to Faulkner and on top of that street looms Montgomery Ward's and Wheaton Plaza Shopping Center.

(Note: The persons mentioned above were interviewed by a newspaper reporter, but they did NOT state that they saw the girls that day enroute to or from Wheaton Plaza. I include mention of them for informationional purposes only.)

At Wheaton Plaza:

One of the first persons to see the girls there was Mrs. Sarah Biosca, a retired seamstress who noticed them at Beckers Leather Goods store, at about 11:45 a.m. ...

Five shops away, Brian McAbee, 18, a clerk at Up Against The Wall, a clothing store featuring jeans and shirts, said, "They were in here. They just came in and looked around. I saw them walk throught the arch."

Sheila's and Kate's oldest brother, Jay, a ninth grader at Montgomery Hills said he saw his sisters over by the big Easter bunny display in the center of the plaza at about 1 p.m. "I walked past them. They kind of looked like they were waiting there," he said. "I think they saw me but they didn't make any signs."

Moments later, another 13-year-old boy (not named in any accounts) saw the girls. Sheila, he said, was sitting on one of the Easter bunny's arms listening to the little children come up and tell the Easter bunny what they wanted for Easter.

Another 13-year-old boy also says he saw a 50 to 60 year-old man recording a conversation with Sheila and Kate at about 2 o'clock. He overheard the man asking one question: "Are any of you two involved in sports?" (Note: this was "Jimmy" mentioned many times before. His testimony was corroborated by another boy who was with him that day. "Jimmy" gave an interview to a Washington Star Reporter who quoted him as saying that he saw the girls and the Tape Recorder Man "between 1 and 2 p.m. - see below quote of the Star interview.)

And the youngster ("Jimmy") says he then saw the man walk away in one direction and the girls in the other. That was the last time they were seen at Wheaton plaza. Police have circulated a composite sketch of the man with the tape recorder, but he has not been located.

Between 2:30 PM and 3:30 PM:

- Another boy (referred to by police only as "Over 15") later reported seeing them walking west (toward home) on Drumm Avenue near Devon Street. Drumm Avenue, a residential street, was part of the most direct route from Wheaton Plaza to their home. He stated that he recognized Sheila from school. "Over 15" was in a car being driven by another boy who corroberated the story, although the boy driving said that he did not know the girls. Although these boys came forward to police by 28 March 1975, Police did not release this information to the press for two more weeks.

- In 2005 on the 30th anniversary of the girls disappearance, an 80 year old man named James Mann stated in an interview that he had seen the girls passing by his house on the corner of Drumm and Devon and that he had waved to them. They were headed west on Drumm in the direction of McComas Ave. Note, a James Mann does live at the address stated and was listed in 1975 as being at that address.

At 3:30 p.m., Mrs. Lyon arrived home from her bowling trip. The girls weren't there. ...

Back home, Mrs. Lyon recalled, "John went in and lay down. I changed my clothes and worked in the front yard for three hours. The boys had come home by then."

As she was gardening throughout the afternoon, Mrs. Lyon wondered about the girls. "I hadn't told them absolutely they had to be home at 3. So I thought that maybe they had stopped off at a movie or a friend's house."

The Lyons customarily do tell their children to be home at 6 o'clock for dinner, although the food usually isn't served until 45 minutes later.

Six o'clock came and went, however, with no sign of the girls. "As we sat down to eat fried chicken," Mrs. Lyon was more angry than worried, so much so that "I even thought I wouldn't give them any chicken when they got home."

By 7 o'clock, however, the anger had given way to anficty. "I said to John, 'I don't understand this," Mrs. Lyon said, so she and her husband drove in their Ford station wagon down Jennings and up Drumm to Faulkner to see if they could spot their daughters walking home.

"Back home," said the mother, "I got out my little phone book and started calling their freinds." "John left and went to the Plaza to look some more. He got home at 8 p.m."

---------------------------------
Still quoting the Star article:

... At 7:30 that night, David Reed, 12, a seventh grader at Sheila's school, said he saw the two sisters walking in the opposite direction of their home near the intersection of Drumm and Faulkner headed toward the plaza. "I was coming from a friend's house from playing basketball," said David, "I passed them (on the sidewalk) and then I looked back. Why? They're girls." David said he had seen both girls before up at the community swimming pool and had seen Sheila at school.

Note: This account was interpreted by police and press to mean that David saw the girls at 7:30 p.m. and that they were going toward the mall at that time. By 28 March, a police spokesman said in a press briefing that they were inclined to disregard David's statement because his time did not fit with the known facts of the case. I would point out however, that his statement may have been misquoted or misinterpreted.

Could it be that he GAVE his story to police at 7:30 p.m.? Or could he have meant that he saw them heading toward the mall at 11:30 a.m.? That would be pretty accurate if so.

Or perhaps he actually did not know where the girls lived and thought their house was closer to the mall. Seeing them in the afternoon walking away from the mall, he may have thought that they were walking away from their house.

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Note: Here is what my earlier time line stated regarding the TRM sighting by "Jimmy":

Some time between 1:00 PM and 2:00 PM
- They were seen outside the Orange Bowl by a 13-year-old boy "Jimmy" who knew them. He described seeing them talking to a middle aged man in a brown suit who had a cassette tape recorder and a tan briefcase. They were speaking into a microphone that he held. Immediately after talking to the girls, the "Tape Recorder Man" walked away toward Montgomery Ward. The girls walked in the opposite direction toward the fountain in the mall, where they were seen talking to the Easter Bunny by their brother Jay.

Note: I am not certain who saw the girls first - whether it was "Jimmy" or Jay. It is entirely possible that the girls walked to the fountain at mall center and back to the Orange Bowl and then back again. By all accounts the Orange Bowl was very busy that day at lunch time and it is possible that the girls did not want to stand in a long line with other things to do and see.

----------------------------

Here is "Jimmy's" story as quoted from the Washington Star...

"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock." Jimmy related. "I was out with a friend. We were down near ... um ... Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."

"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"

"And then ... um ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."

Jimmy stopped talking. Up to then, the words had tumbled out. He sat there and crossed his hands over his maroon lettered football jersey.
His parents didn't say anything.

His mother sat on the sofa with an untouched glass of red wine on the next table while her husband sat across the room with the newspaper opened across his folded legs. Jimmy was asked to give more details about what he had seen.

He smiled when he told how he and his friend had joked about going over to the man and asking him to interview them so they could get on television.

"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We thought he was some kind of a reporter," Jimmy explained. "We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."

"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up." the boy said, adding that the tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase.

The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of (illegible word - bushes?) in the middle of the plaza, Jimmy said. People sit on the ledge to rest during their shopping sprees or to eat a snack or pizza from the carryout.

Jimmy said he had never seen the man before or since. He said the man was well dressed in a brown suit.

Jimmy, who lives several blocks from the Lyons said he and his friend rode their bikes up to the plaza that day "to see friends. We just went up there to ride around. We had nothing else to do so we decided to go up there and look around."

Jimmy's mother said that right after the news came out that the Lyon girls were missing, her son told her he had seen them at the plaza. But it wasn't until Friday that he mentioned anything about the man with a tape recorder, she said.

"On Friday, he said that the girls were talking to a reporter. I said, 'How do you know he was a reporter?' He said because he had a microphone. I told him that could have been anybody and notified police."

At the police station on Friday, Jimmy said, the police "had me look through two files of mug shots."

(The beginning of the next sentence seems to have been left out of the printed article)

... in a while, a police officer would ask me if everything was all right (with the sketch). I'd tell them what was right and what was wrong." Jimmy said he thought the sketch was a good likeness. His mother said he was at the police station 2 1/2 hours that day.

Jimmy's friend who was with him the day the Lyon girls were seen with the man at the plaza verified virtually everything Jimmy said except that he said he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.

"I hope they find them." Jimmy said.
 
Richard thank you for the correct time line,and it does help.

Some interesting things

While Jay and Jimmy saw TRM did walk away toward Wards and the girls toward the center of the mall.

Also "Between 2:30 PM and 3:30 PM:

- Another boy (referred to by police only as "Over 15") later reported seeing them walking west (toward home) on Drumm Avenue near Devon Street. Drumm Avenue, a residential street, was part of the most direct route from Wheaton Plaza to their home. He stated that he recognized Sheila from school. "Over 15" was in a car being driven by another boy who corroberated the story, although the boy driving said that he did not know the girls. Although these boys came forward to police by 28 March 1975, Police did not release this information to the press for two more weeks."


David seeing the girls as you point out most likely saw the girls that morning and gave his statement at 7:30PM


So they were seen going home between 2:30-3:30PM.

As a result I still think it was some one known in the neighbor hood a possible handy man that did odd jobs,possible some one home on Spring Break from College,or even some one living there.
Some one looking so normal that no one would give it a second thought.
 
Hello All. I hope you don't mind a newbie chiming in here. I have read the entire thread and I am quite impressed with the discussion on this case.

I am hoping there are simple answers to my questions, and I either just overlooked the post somehow, or maybe the info was never released by LE at the time...

Going on the basis that these girls were deemed smart, intelligent, and would not be trusting of just anyone (my paraphrasing)..

Sheila's and Kate's oldest brother, Jay, a ninth grader at Montgomery Hills said he saw his sisters over by the big Easter bunny display in the center of the plaza at about 1 p.m. "I walked past them. They kind of looked like they were waiting there," he said. "I think they saw me but they didn't make any signs."

Moments later, another 13-year-old boy (not named in any accounts) saw the girls. Sheila, he said, was sitting on one of the Easter bunny's arms listening to the little children come up and tell the Easter bunny what they wanted for Easter.

Q: Why would Sheila be sitting on one of the Easter Bunny's ARMS ??

To me, it says that she KNEW who was inside the EASTER BUNNY costume. She was COMFORTABLE with him/her. Was she being flirtacious? Or was she just confident with an old friend? Because, at her young age, she surely wouldn't sit on the EASTER BUNNY ARM of a total stranger, right?!?!

So....was it ever determined exactly "who" was in this EASTER BUNNY costume?

I wonder: Was it her "Secret Crush"? A family friend? A neighbor (J Mann? is he friends of the family? see below) I believe a few posters also mentioned ...a college student... or a local handyman/worker, someone maybe short on cash, always worked cash-jobs, side jobs, etc....someone just back in town for college break?

This leads into my next question:

In 2005 on the 30th anniversary of the girls disappearance, an 80 year old man named James Mann stated in an interview that he had seen the girls passing by his house on the corner of Drumm and Devon and that he had waved to them. They were headed west on Drumm in the direction of McComas Ave. Note, a James Mann does live at the address stated and was listed in 1975 as being at that address.

Q: Why would a middle-aged man (hmmm..TRM description?) give an account, years later (hmmm..TRM? criminal narcissist? To remind people I'm still out here?) ... that he WAVED at the Lyons girls when they (supposedly) walked by his house?

Why would he WAVE at them? Are the Mann family and Lyon family friends? And even if they are family friends, why WAVE?

Was it a WAVE.... in the sense of... Hey... remember me? I just saw you girls at the mall? I was TRM, and I told you that I had to show you some bunnies/ducks/etc..and I lived right in your neighborhood, so see? I didn't lie. I DO live right here -- And I can show you the bunny/duck and then you can go right home and you won't be late!"

Remember, Jimmy's account has TRM walking away from the girls, towards Montgomery Wards, which is where the girls entered the mall. Was he going back to his car to wait for his ambush (his car parked by McDonalds, as another poster suggested)? Supposing JM is TRM, he could've made it back home from the mall by the time the girls crossed his path - on THEIR way home - in time for him to WAVE them over to come see his ducks/bunnies...


I'm sorry but neighborhood kids pass my house all day long, and I never "wave" at them... I SPEAK to them...like "Hey, Brian. You staying out of trouble? Great!" or "Hi, girls ! Where are you two off to today?"

Even if they are across the street from me, it is still within 50 feet or so. They are like..right there. No need to WAVE...

WAVE makes me think: #1.the person(s) being waved at are FAR AWAY from the person who is WAVING Or #2. the story provided by the WAVER is a ruse. <<Or only -"part" true...a narcissist wanting "exposure", wanting his name in the paper ...but only for "waving", not for "kidnapping" >>
I guess I should also add
#3: the WAVER was honestly mistaken about everything...the date/time/circumstances/people he waved at. An attention hound.
 
Good comments and questions about the case. I wish I knew the answers that you seek, but at least asking the questions might get someone thinking.

If I were the case officer on this "open and active" case, I would look for and question all of the witnesses and can think of plenty of questions to ask. You have come out with some excellent ones.

As to waving, I guess that would be a personal kind of choice. Some people wave and others call out. But the observations are well stated. It could be someone seeking attention. Or he may have read that Drumm and Devon was the last sighting of the girls and recalled seeing them that day himself. Whether or not he told this to police in 1975 is one thing that I would ask. Or did he only come forward in 2005?
 
SCSleuther
Welcome to the forum

"James Mann stated in an interview that he had seen the girls passing by his house on the corner of Drumm and Devon" "Another boy (referred to by police only as "Over 15") later reported seeing them walking west (toward home) on Drumm Avenue near Devon Street. Drumm Avenue,"

Good questions especially about Mr.Mann and if he waited so long that would make me suspicious.I'd like to know if he has an alibi.An alibi that can be confirmed by some one other than a spouse.After all the two teens in their account don't mention seeing Mr.Mann wave to the girls and they were right there. I'd also like to talk to the two teens in the car who saw them on the way home?They saw them at the same location as Mr.Mann.I'd like to know the two teens alibi for the time just after their sighting and for the next few hours.Also can it be confirmed by a separate source other than the two teens.Also Mr.Mann doesn't mention them in his account when he waves at the two sisters.
 
The photo's on the right that look like Sheila Lyon were found by police in serial killer Rodney Alcala's storage unit.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/photos-239446-alcala-women.html


Thanks for posting the pictures, the blond girls nose does look very similar, but Sheila Lyon's earlobes are round and detached at the base (you know, kinda dangling), where the blond girls are attached (they slope down and attach to her head fully). Anyway, it's kinda hard to see it as the blond girl's hair is in the way a bit, but you can. Hope you know what I mean by all that...
 
Anyone else familiar with this case? Sheila and Katherine Lyon, sisters, aged 11 and 13, walked to a shopping mall near their Wheaton, MD home in March 1975 and have never been seen again. I believe they were actually last seen leaving the mall, and then again a possible sighting a week or so later. Someone saw two girls in the backseat of a car bound and gagged, fitting their description. There have been no new leads since. I can't imagine the torture their family has gone though, losing two children and not knowing if they are alive or dead. Sorry I don't have a link but if you do a Google search you will find their story.


I remember this all too well. I thought they were a little younger than that though. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is I was young myself at the time, and knowing the Lyons sisters had been snatched up from a mall made me lose a chunk of innocence. I remember the thing about the person seeing the car. For some reason, I never bought that as credible. I remember their father was a radio announcer and he kept up his career despite this nightmare. The parents eventually divorced as happens with so many parents of crime victims. This is one of the saddest cases, and although there was some speculation about some man who might have taken them, I don't think there was ever much evidence. The poor Lyons family -- my heart goes out to them.
 
Re: the girls leaving the mall early -- Suppose the girls left early because they were nervous or scared, and wanted to get away from somebody?
 
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