Trial - Ross Harris #6

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gitana1 said:
I watched. I did not see that he was impeached or that his testimony about Ross making an out of character statement to him that day, was proven to be untruthful. Maybe I missed something. All I saw was that he did not mention that statement to the detective on tape. So what? I doubt that would be the first thing he would say or think of when talking to the detective. That's a retrospect kind of thing. There was no successful impeachment that I saw and zero evidence that he was untruthful. IMO.
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They love to throw around the word impeachment here LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Zoobiegirl said:
This, this, this! LEO (Stoddard mainly it seems) have destroyed her life. She needed her husband with her that night to help deal with the shock and loss and grief. Next thing she knows the media have all this terrible personal stuff about her and her life that, in the least, she ought to be able to process privately. I'm sure she lost close friends over this, maybe the church she went to,I suppose her job and home as she went home to her parents I believe. She lost her ENTIRE LIFE all at once.
Can you even begin to imagine the depth of what she lost? The situation she was thrown into? I have no idea what it's like to lose a child and pray I never learn. I can't imagine losing my husband at the same time like she did. I can't imagine how awful it was to find herself a suspect, to have the whole world examining what she said at her child's funeral and picking it apart. I can't imagine LEO have all the pictures of her child and refusing to give them back for the funeral.
I could go on and on, bottom line is I feel a tremendous amount of compassion for this woman. I don't know how she is able to talk about the most intimate details of her life here and STILL have to deal with people arm chair quarterbacking her emotions.
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So let's say LE didn't investigate this. They just assumed it was a total accident and patted Ross on the back and sent him home to his loving wife. Leanna would probably still think her husband was a loving decent husband. And he would still be the deceitful, disrespectful slug that he was when he let his son fry to death in that car.
 
blue22 said:
Right! His child never died in a car before, so he must not have done it.
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Far more logical than "His child never died in a car before, so he must have done it."

See what mean ? ;)
 
gitana1 said:
I didn't see that. If someone can direct me to the exact spot, I will take a look and if it that is correct, I'll remove it form the list of suspicious things. But frankly there have already been a couple pro-defense statements made that turned out either to be untrue or total speculation (that Ross never said leaving his son in the car was his greatest fear. He did. In his own words (his "worst" fear). Or that Ross sat in the parked car at CFA for four minutes. We don't know that he did. Since there was no phone activity in those first four minutes after leaving CFA, it is more likely he sat in traffic.) So while I am trusting your statements, some I just want to confirm.
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Gitana-

I tried to link the post but am having Tapatalk issues. I believe the tweet from that testimony is on Thread 3 around post #1107 by JerseyGirl with the link a few posts later. I'll try to link again for ease.


http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...rris-murder-trial-oct/Dmo0qRDQuDAgfBiBSbsmiP/

The testimony is summarized at this link. The guard testified that Harris told him about the movies but in the report it was stated that Leanne told him about the movies.


Sent from my Nexus 5X
 
justkk said:
I find it fascinating when people refer to RH "double life" as "just because he was cheating on his wife" or "just because he was sexting" ... What he was involved in for YEARS which we obviously were not privy to all of it - maybe just a fraction (who knows) - was not simply "a guy cheating on his wife". I have seen it put so many different ways all with the intent of making him seem like sort of just your run of the mill dirtbag.
It is mind boggling to think of the huge numbers of texts, calls, many different messaging apps (kik, scout, whisper), prostitutes, hookups, etc... That he had going on!! AND no one else in his life had ANY idea this is going on. He was holding on to an enormous secret. This was not just a girl on the side...This to me is like a textbook example of a "double life". It's SCARY!
I am not saying this is proof that he killed Cooper, but it is certainly NOT irrelevant in this case. And I am baffled by the references to this double life as "he was a cheater" so what?

On another note, I am also baffled by the lack of supporters for him in court. Maybe they are all still going to take the stand at some point....? Where are all the church people and friends? His family? (I know his brother and sister in law testified).
All JMO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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RBBM, this is not true. People knew of RH doing this. Addiction
RH,first friend he told about the *advertiser censored* Leanna, Pastor, accountability partner who stopped being his accountability partner months later, men in their couples group,wives of those men in the small couples group, his brother, his sister in law, the counselor in there small church group, the professional therapist, Angie LH BFF, And ALLL the people he was sexting with that were sexting with him and others, and the prostitute that was not charged with any thing. <<Still can't get over that one.

And going back to 2008... didn't just start in 2013
 JMHO from testimony thus far

**
 
Hope4More said:
Really, with all due respect, you're cherry picking which of RH's statements to LE you choose to believe, and disregarding some obvious counter narrative, including RH needing to convince LE it was an accident.
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No. I don't think so.
There is evidence that corroborates those statements. He actually watched the vet video five day before he forgot Cooper. And he knew far too many details about the advocate who left his son in the car for that to be untrue. It is a glaring fact that Ross Harris was 100% educated about the dangers and risks of hot car deaths and 100 % educa ted as to how to prevent them, days before his own son died in the hot car.

That one factor out of all of the facts in this case might be the very most important factor pointing to guilt. It's huge. It's unique. It's extremely damning and damaging and if I were the state I would focus on that like a laser beam. Cherry picking? One of the most pivotal statments he made? It's not like it's some random factor that on it's own is meaningless when compared with ALL the other wonderful statments he made that made him look good. My goodness it's some of the most important stuff out of an avalanche of stuff that makes it very hard to believe he accidentally forgot his son.
 
gitana1 said:
It can either work for the defense or for the state. The state has two, parallel theories going on at once. One is motive. Wanting to be free to indulge himself can be seen as part of motive. Or, it can be seen as a distraction that caused him to forget his son. Which may fit the state's second theory - criminal negligence.

I know what common sense tells me. I know what I believe based on the facts. I think a lot points to Ross intentionally leaving his kid in the car. But when it comes down to pure evidence, is it beyond a reasonable doubt? I don't think the state has shown that. How about criminal negligence as the underlying base for felony murder? Or involuntary manslaughter? The jury instructions will help us there. And Dr. Diamond's testimony is going to be crucial. Everything may bank on him. If he is effective as he has been in other cases, Ross may walk. But I'm not sure this case is like those other cases. In not one were the parents focused on, aware of or watching things having to do with hot car deaths, shortly before their kid died in a hot car, and actually taking precautions against such a thing because it was their "worst fear". It comes down to whether the jury feels his conduct was criminally negligent at the least.
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" Criminal negligence" is not an offense and therefore cannot be the underlying felony for a felony murder conviction.

Involuntary manslaughter also cannot be the predicate offense for felony murder and carries a much shorter sentencing range.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-3
 
Rayemonde said:
I think it's possible to be a serial cheater who lies to his wife and sexts with teenagers and yet be incapable of murder. Just because he's capable of all the sexual stuff, doesn't mean he's capable of intentionally leaving his son to suffer and die in the most horrendous way. I don't think the sexting means he must be a psychopath who could murder his own child without batting an eyelid. I need more evidence to show that he is the kind of person capable of doing that, and I haven't seen it. The sexting evidence tells me that he's a cheat and a liar, but it doesn't tell me he's a psychopath or a murderer. :moo:
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This is very much how I have been thinking about RH as well. From what I've heard in the trial, he comes across to me as an extremely extroverted person who has developed a sexual addiction. I would be genuinely curious to know if he has ever been diagnosed with ADHD. So many of the details I have heard about him fall in line with someone with ADHD who is not receiving any treatment. The immaturity, the way that Leanna had to be the responsible one in the marriage, the inability to maintain focus over time at work - it all matches.

I would have liked to hear more about RH childhood, and more about his daily functioning. We've only heard snippets. The snippets we have heard have more of an ADHD/sex addiction flavor to me than psychopath/narcissist PD flavor.

Lest anyone think I am making "excuses" for what happened to Cooper- no. I am just trying to look at RH from a psychological perspective and hypothesize. I do believe he was negligent/neglectful and that resulted in Cooper's death.
 
catpatrol said:
Whether he was too tall for the manufacturers guidelines is irrelevant to me. I don't think it has anything to do with whether Ross intentionally left Cooper.

The fact that the state created a reconstruction of the scene based on all kinds of bad measurements is relevant to me. I can't trust that their model is accurate.

It's funny how an inch or two matters when people say RH must have seen Cooper because he was so close, but not when it comes to the doll that the state claims is within 1/2".
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I am not sure why you are quoting me when making your claims about the accuracy of the model or about whether or not Ross must have seen Cooper. I have never made either of those claims. All I said was that I have no reason to believe that Cooper was not 33 inches at his time of death.

IMO, Cooper's exact height is relevant with respect to whether or not he properly fit his car seat. While it may not point to intent, it definitely points to negligence... and not only on the day of Cooper's death. If Cooper was in an ill-fitting car seat, it shows that Ross and Leanna disregarded Cooper's safety for at least 3 months.
 
GA_Peach said:
I am not sure why you are quoting me when making your claims about the accuracy of the model or about whether or not Ross must have seen Cooper. I have never made either of those claims. All I said was that I no reason to believe that Cooper was not 33 inches at his time of death.

IMO, Cooper's exact height is relevant with respect to whether or not he properly fit his car seat. While it may not point to intent, it definitely points to negligence... and not only of the day of Cooper's death.
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Nothing about my post insinuated that you made any claims. I used the word I because I was explaining my position, not yours.

You were talking about Cooper's height being 33" as a fact, and I still don't believe it is, so I replied to your post. If an autopsy report shows 2 lengths, why should I choose 1 over the other? To fit my theory?
 
catpatrol said:
Nothing about my post insinuated that you made any claims. I used the word I because I was explaining my position, not yours.

You were talking about Cooper's height being 33" as a fact, and I still don't believe it is, so I replied to your post. If an autopsy report shows 2 lengths, why should I choose 1 over the other? To fit my theory?
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I wasn't stating Cooper's height as fact. I simply stated that I have no reason to believe that Cooper was not 33 inches at the time of his death.

It's not about fitting my theory. Whether Cooper was 31.5" or 33", he was still too tall for his car seat. As I said above, that 1.5" inches doesn't matter to me because it doesn't materially affect anything. If you are interested in why I chose the 33" inches over the 31.5" inches, you can reread my previous few posts. I just outlined my reasons.
 
DaleTray said:
And I hope she has another healthy baby. Can you just imagine the love that baby would receive
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I think that baby would be cherished by her, just as Cooper was. I genuinely hope she has more babies. There has been no evidence that she wasn't a great mother. I wonder if we will ever find out how she gets on after this trial....
 
minor4th said:
Well, we don't need to start making this personal :(

Let me ask you a logic question:

Which of the following fathers is more likely to have intentionally murdered his 2-year-old son:

Father #1: The child was an accident, and F1 was not ready for children. After the child's birth, F1 did not participate in any of the child rearing. When left alone with the child F1 locked the child in his room alone while he went across the street to drink beer and play horseshoes with the neighbor. F1 refused to go anywhere in public with his son and F1 often yelled at the child for causing messes and crying. F1 was cheating on his wife and sexting minors.

Father #2: F2 and his wife wanted a child and tried for a year before she got pregnant. F3 participated in every aspect of child rearing - from changing diapers to bathing to bedtime routines. F2 made a point of having special daddy/son time with his child 2 or 3 times a month. F2 took his son to restaurants, baseball games and other family activities. F2 bragged about and talked about his son constantly. Everyone who knew F2 and his child agreed that F2 loved his son very much and was a good and attentive father. F2 was cheating on his wife and sexting minors.
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You think I will say #1 obviously. I won't. Just because F1 exists somewhere out there, doesn't mean Ross is LESS capable. And I simply don't subscribe to your idealization of Ross. IMO, he wasn't dad of the year who just happened to be cheating with adults and minors.

There is plenty of evidence to show that Ross prioritized himself over his family. We can agree to disagree on that.
 
Jinkasaurus said:
This is very much how I have been thinking about RH as well. From what I've heard in the trial, he comes across to me as an extremely extroverted person who has developed a sexual addiction. I would be genuinely curious to know if he has ever been diagnosed with ADHD. So many of the details I have heard about him fall in line with someone with ADHD who is not receiving any treatment. The immaturity, the way that Leanna had to be the responsible one in the marriage, the inability to maintain focus over time at work - it all matches.

I would have liked to hear more about RH childhood, and more about his daily functioning. We've only heard snippets. The snippets we have heard have more of an ADHD/sex addiction flavor to me than psychopath/narcissist PD flavor.

Lest anyone think I am making "excuses" for what happened to Cooper- no. I am just trying to look at RH from a psychological perspective and hypothesize. I do believe he was negligent/neglectful and that resulted in Cooper's death.
Click to expand...

The many examples of him not being able to focus on things he has no interest in, his tardiness, lack of follow through, inattentiveness, easily distracted, loss of motivation ect... fairly screams ADD/ADHD
 
Moxie Vi said:
Gitana-

I tried to link the post but am having Tapatalk issues. I believe the tweet from that testimony is on Thread 3 around post #1107 by JerseyGirl with the link a few posts later. I'll try to link again for ease.


http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...rris-murder-trial-oct/Dmo0qRDQuDAgfBiBSbsmiP/

The testimony is summarized at this link. The guard testified that Harris told him about the movies but in the report it was stated that Leanne told him about the movies.


Sent from my Nexus 5X
Click to expand...
Quoting myself only for reference.

For the guard to truly be impeached, wouldn't we have to accept the statements in the report as truth? It seems if people are untrusting of the investigation then this report may not be enough to impeach a witness without further information. IMO.

I didn't watch that testimony but with the ado over the search warrants I'm not sure if I can blindly accept a report.

Sent from my Nexus 5X
 
gitana1 said:
No. I don't think so.
There is evidence that corroborates those statements. He actually watched the vet video five day before he forgot Cooper. And he knew far too many details about the advocate who left his son in the car for that to be untrue. It is a glaring fact that Ross Harris was 100% educated about the dangers and risks of hot car deaths and 100 % educa ted as to how to prevent them, days before his own son died in the hot car.

That one factor out of all of the facts in this case might be the very most important factor pointing to guilt. It's huge. It's unique. It's extremely damning and damaging and if I were the state I would focus on that like a laser beam. Cherry picking? One of the most pivotal statments he made? It's not like it's some random factor that on it's own is meaningless when compared with ALL the other wonderful statments he made that made him look good. My goodness it's some of the most important stuff out of an avalanche of stuff that makes it very hard to believe he accidentally forgot his son.
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of whether or not it's true RH had watched that pet video and had listened well enough to a TV show or PSA or whatever to have been able to talk advocate to LE. Those are the facts, but not in context.

Harris didn't go off researching hot car deaths, counter to LE's assertions. He clicked on a trending video on a Reddit page. Ross did that ADD kind of random searching pretty constantly, from what I can tell. And he remembered a PSA.

Now he's sitting in the police station and his son has just died in a hot car. Does he tell LE he's aware of the dangers because he wants to help LE charge him with murder? Or does he tell LE because he mistakingly believes they are exculpatory? My bet is on the latter.

Does the fact he knew of the danger yet did not do a safety check on the day Cooper died indicate he intended to kill Cooper,because he couldn't possibly have not remembered to do one that day? Not IMO. I think it's pretty clear he had a lot on his mind that AM. Negligence? Yes. Intent? Nah.
 
Bc007 said:
How come you can believe certain things he wrote but when he says he loves his child or was in a happy marriage with the exception of sex, you can't take him at his word then? Can't have it both ways.
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Hmmm...Ive never said what I believe or don't regarding what he wrote...?

"Love" gets thrown around a lot here. The thing about love, is there are all kinds. I do think Ross loved Cooper. But I think it was an immature love. Cooper made him feel important, he loved the idea of him, he paraded him for appearances. And I think privately he loved Cooper. He felt love for him. However, I don't believe he practiced love. I believe his family was not as important as himself. Since the beginning of time, people have harmed those they "love" purposefully and accidentally, due to selfishness. I believe Ross when he said he loved Cooper. I just don't think he loved him enough to protect him or put him first.

I believe some of the things he showed strangers were reflectve of true parts of himself. Parts that he would never dare show his family and friends. With that said, I wasn't speaking about what he said. Maybe you quoted the wrong person?
 
Curious if any medical reports will be entered into the record? Possible he was still on some sort of ED precription. LH Testimony was he had used, shots, pills and jells. Definitely don't want to see the "exhibit" :saber: Curious if it has been authenticated. Or is it authenticated as just being the "exhibit photo" texted/chatted? Since he is well known to look at *advertiser censored* and likes to brag... just saying :shame:
 
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