Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

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BigCityAccountant said:
I'm not so much concerned about the other locations---the cut could have happened while SA was moving the other items onto and around the vehicle, the blood on that latch to fold down the seat could have been left retrieving an item he remembered leaving back there, but if it was one of those actual items that were placed around the vehicle that caused the cut--then there should have been blood or DNA on it. I would think anyone who drove the vehicle would have wiped it down for fingerprints--or the blood left while wiping it down.

Another thing I'm curious to know is when the vehicle got to it's location that it was found it. For example, lets say it was the night of October 31st after everyone went to bed. It is so quite up there at night--that anyone in the vicinity would have heard the car start up or driving down the road. Someone on that property would have had to heard the vehicle passing their house if it was in the middle of the night--so that leaves us only the daytime--but--why risk it in the daytime when you could possibly be seen in the vehicle by family or customers. But that also leaves the question that if the vehicle was planted as some suppose--no one in the family saw or heard someone come onto the property? So that leaves me to believe it was someone at that property--was it SA, maybe, was it EA, maybe--were there 2 or more preps--maybe--could everyone at that property know---possibly.
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I'm not sure how to post photos here but I did a Google map search. There's a road coming into the salvage yard from the north (?). It's down by the quarry. If someone entered from that road they wouldn't need to drive past the main entrance where all the houses are at.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
This has been bothering me to...why would SA call at 4:35 pm to ask TH to take a picture of another car? It was 6 minutes before sunset. For reference, this picture was taken 11-28-2015 north of Manitowoc at 4:46pm. You would not be able to see the vehicle in the pictures that she would have taken...so I don't believe SA about the reason he called her.
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Not necessarily. I made a note of going outside my house today at sundown. It was still fairly light out almost an hour later. Depending on her camera flash and/or flood lights, garage lights, etc. he could have reasonably believed she might be able to run back and get a quick photo. Plus you can factor in daylight savings time had just changed the day before. For all we know he was still thinking it would be daylight out until 6:00ish.
 
Sinsaint said:
Not necessarily. I made a note of going outside my house today at sundown. It was still fairly light out almost an hour later. Depending on her camera flash and/or flood lights, garage lights, etc. he could have reasonably believed she might be able to run back and get a quick photo. Plus you can factor in daylight savings time had just changed the day before. For all we know he was still thinking it would be daylight out until 6:00ish.
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Sorry I don't mean to insult you whatsoever...but I believe that is hogwash...everyone knows as time goes by on the days after December they become longer...I could have gone outside my house today at 4:46pm and the sun would be in a different position that it was on 11/28/2015.

For us on the northern part of Earth, the shortest day comes at the solstice. After the winter solstice, the days get longer, and the nights shorter. It’s a seasonal shift that nearly everyone notices.

http://earthsky.org/earth/everything-you-need-to-know-december-solstice#when

So up until December the days are getting shorter and after that the days are getting longer.

Besides these people hunted--they know when the sun sets in the fall.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
This has been bothering me to...why would SA call at 4:35 pm to ask TH to take a picture of another car? It was 6 minutes before sunset. For reference, this picture was taken 11-28-2015 north of Manitowoc at 4:46pm. You would not be able to see the vehicle in the pictures that she would have taken...so I don't believe SA about the reason he called her.
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Maybe SA called TH to come back and get her spare key set left in his bedroom ...
 
Madeleine74 said:
On that point BigCity,

SA claims (in his statement to police Nov 2005) that TH arrived somewhere around 2:30pm or so and only stayed about 5 minutes--just long enough to say hi, bye, take the pictures, and get payment. By his account that would have her gone from Avery's Yard by 3pm or so.

But then he calls her cell phone 90+ minutes later at 4:35pm? For what reason? He didn't leave a message, did he?

It was too late for her to come back and photograph another car, and he would have known that, since he said she had come out a bunch of times before that Oct 31 date. He didn't call Auto Trader again either (to request her to come back and take more pictures) after her 2:30pm-ish visit.

So what was the purpose of that 4:35pm call the day she goes missing?
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Avery claimed she showed up around 2:00 to 2:30. The bus driver, who has no reason to lie stated she saw Halbach at 3:30-40. It's not belong the realm that, since she typically showed up around 2:00-2:30, he just got the time wrong. If, as the bus driver stated, Halbach was taking pictures of the van at 3:40 and she took another five or ten minutes to leave and exchanged pleasantries like "Yea, I have another shoot right down the road" or whatever, he might have assumed she could simply swing back by quick. I can certainly see his reasoning for trying. If she didn't come back that day it would take another week for her to come back out to get the photos.

And so what if he didn't leave a message? I know tons of people who don't leave messages when they call. Doesn't mean they are murderers. He might have figured he had missed her for the day so there was point in leaving one.
 
MysticJynx said:
Here are some things I just wanted to get out before they stopped tumbling in my head. In one of the ST statements he mentions that BJ tried to go over to her place early on after the Junk Yard had been seized, To get her DOG. The dog that officers state they could not search that Burn Pit earlier than they did because he was aggressive. They had opportunity to get that dog off the property when BJ stopped there to get him. They should have been able to escort her close enough to get this dog on a leash and off the property so they could search it right? I believe even the Court thought the excuse of not getting closer to that pit earlier on was not an excuse at all IIRC. What was the big deal about picking up that dog. Did they say they eventually brought in Animal Control to remove the dog? how many days later was that. Who was feeding the dog for 3 days? they just let the dog roam around the yard while they were doing the searches? Confused.

So then I got to thinking, Yeah Why would they wait so long? Wait so long to do any thorough search of his property. At this point during the first 2 days of searches they knew that they only had the property for that long. Unless they produce evidence to extend the warrant. Which makes me wonder why they keep saying they didn't really do thorough searches until the 8th when everything starts popping up. They only had the first warrant for 2 days. I understand its a 40acre lot but you had 200 people involved with that search. So why wouldn't you search the residences first while you were there, that first 2 days. Thoroughly to get other evidence to use for additional searches? I think after the end of that initial search warrant that seems to have lasted till Nov 7 2005, they weren't able to find anything, The 2 officers weren't alone long enough to plant that key. So get another warrant. Had they not have produced evidence to continue that search after the 7th through the 12th, they would never have found anything other than her car right?

By Nov 7th what evidence did they have against him to continue searching his property for 7-8 days?
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I do remembering reading something about the dog wouldn't let them search and I thought wth! Reading this post makes me think it was an "excuse". And who was feeding that dog for those days?????

By the 7th, I think all they had was the SUV and the license plates. IIRC the license plates were found on the 6th, but it may have been the 7th. btw, when I was reading about them finding the license plates, I found it interesting that the car was near a wire fence with a road on the other side! I wish we could see the video because I just can't visualize where it was without seeing it, I've seen maps/diagrams, but it didn't help LOL
 
BigCityAccountant said:
Sorry I don't mean to insult you whatsoever...but I believe that is hogwash...everyone knows as time goes by on the days after December they become longer...I could have gone outside my house today at 4:46pm and the sun would be in a different position that it was on 11/28/2015.

For us on the northern part of Earth, the shortest day comes at the solstice. After the winter solstice, the days get longer, and the nights shorter. It’s a seasonal shift that nearly everyone notices.

http://earthsky.org/earth/everything-you-need-to-know-december-solstice#when

So up until December the days are getting shorter and after that the days are getting longer.

Besides these people hunted--they know when the sun sets in the fall.
Click to expand...


I'll agree. This month isn't the best indicator of light back in October. That said, daylight savings had just taken effect. It's not uncommon for people to take a few days to adjust to it. There is no way of knowing if Avery was thinking about what time it was at the moment he called or the fact it would be getting darker sooner than he was used to.

If this were a month or even a week after the time change I could agree he would have or should have been aware but not the next day. Most people are still adjusting to the new sundown time the first few days. And Avery, as far as I know, wasn't a hunter. He wasn't allowed to own guns so obtaining a hunting license would have been impossible.
 
missy1974 said:
I do remembering reading something about the dog wouldn't let them search and I thought wth! Reading this post makes me think it was an "excuse". And who was feeding that dog for those days?????

By the 7th, I think all they had was the SUV and the license plates. IIRC the license plates were found on the 6th, but it may have been the 7th. btw, when I was reading about them finding the license plates, I found it interesting that the car was near a wire fence with a road on the other side! I wish we could see the video because I just can't visualize where it was without seeing it, I've seen maps/diagrams, but it didn't help LOL
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Poor dog. If Avery left him on the 5th and they couldn't contain until the 8th Bear went without food or water for a few days. Not to sound gross or anything but did Halbach's bones show evidence of being chewed on? Everyone seemed to avoid the pit because the dog was there lording right over it. My dog would have been in that pit chewing the bones. If she wasn't, it was because she couldn't get to it... Meaning other people had no excuse for not being able to get to it.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
...the call was only 13 seconds....could it be possible it was nearly dark and he was trying to locate it?
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Actually meant that as a little humor as the bedroom is where the RAV4 key was located after a few tries. My best guess on the 4:35 call is that he wanted TH to come back and quickly photo the loader he mentioned or she forgot something at the property.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
...the call was only 13 seconds....could it be possible it was nearly dark and he was trying to locate it?
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There are two other places on the Netflix MaM threads you can read about phone calls and deleted messages the records of the calls. One record provided from the STATE says that call at 4:35 did not even connect. However his bill said it did. There is proof they were trying to falsify the records the jury was receiving. The state wrote up that summary.

anyway the other two threads for you to check out if you haven't already. And BTW there are other threads for other specifics too, such as the Blood splatter in the garage, the rav4, the blood vial, etc... They all have some information found there and not in this main thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298353-The-3-Phone-calls
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298416-Deleted-Voicemails
 
Sinsaint said:
I'll agree. This month isn't the best indicator of light back in October. That said, daylight savings had just taken effect. It's not uncommon for people to take a few days to adjust to it. There is no way of knowing if Avery was thinking about what time it was at the moment he called or the fact it would be getting darker sooner than he was used to.

If this were a month or even a week after the time change I could agree he would have or should have been aware but not the next day. Most people are still adjusting to the new sundown time the first few days. And Avery, as far as I know, wasn't a hunter. He wasn't allowed to own guns so obtaining a hunting license would have been impossible.
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I didn't mean to imply he was currently a hunter, but growing up in that area, I'm sure he was exposed to it. We have friends who take their 10 year old's hunting. It's not uncommon. What I may not have been clear about--was that with his previous exposure from hunting--he would have known when the sun sets.
By the way...are you working on the new defense team or related in any way?:thinking:
 
MysticJynx said:
There are two other places on the Netflix MaM threads you can read about phone calls and deleted messages the records of the calls. One record provided from the STATE says that call at 4:35 did not even connect. However his bill said it did. There is proof they were trying to falsify the records the jury was receiving. The state wrote up that summary.

anyway the other two threads for you to check out if you haven't already. And BTW there are other threads for other specifics too, such as the Blood splatter in the garage, the rav4, the blood vial, etc... They all have some information found there and not in this main thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298353-The-3-Phone-calls
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298416-Deleted-Voicemails
Click to expand...

I actually found her cell phone record from an exhibit...I was trying to piece together who the calls were from based on trial transcripts...didn't get very far...but here it is..
 

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BigCityAccountant said:
I actually found her cell phone record from an exhibit...I was trying to piece together who the calls were from based on trial transcripts...didn't get very far...but here it is..
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suppose I can post this here too

attachment.php


Do you see how the one given to Det MW was missing a lot of calls. The Copy he got from her "FRIENDS" that printed it off the computer. Or as we know RH printed it off her online cingular wireless account.
I'd like to know who REVERSED looked up the numbers, had it been Det. MW wouldnt he have discovered that BJ's number at 11:43 was not SA. Seems the person who printed off the phone records in the beginning was starting off the info with false info. Her last call that day was 4:35, and one before that was 2:41. Which to me means he knows who those other calls were from.
 
No idea if this is ok to post. But I have been looking at the evidence as a whole and when I come across something I see is strange or conflicting I have been posting them in an album.
That album is http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=2113

In case you or anyone else is interested, as some of these pictures are posted in different threads.
 
Cool Mystic... I didn't know the 'album' existed LOL will be much easier to find a picture that I know you posted!
 
BigCityAccountant said:
I didn't mean to imply he was currently a hunter, but growing up in that area, I'm sure he was exposed to it. We have friends who take their 10 year old's hunting. It's not uncommon. What I may not have been clear about--was that with his previous exposure from hunting--he would have known when the sun sets.
By the way...are you working on the new defense team or related in any way?:thinking:
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I see. I misunderstood your hunting reference. My point is just a very simple one. Even when everyone is aware it has happened (we all set our clocks ahead) our minds are slower to follow suit. Even though we all know sunset will be earlier than normal we are all mildly surprised the first few days we drive home from work with our headlights on.

Plus, keep in mind, Avery was incarcerated for 18 years. I'm certain he saw daylight during that time but was he truly exposed to the sun setting at different times during that time? He had only been out long enough to experience two of them in 20 years time. It's a mild shock to the timing system of normal people every year. Imagine how much of an adjustment it could be to his system. I'm not saying this is definitely the reason to explain his late call. I'm just saying it's a valid reason that might explain his thought process that day.
 
MysticJynx said:
suppose I can post this here too

attachment.php


Do you see how the one given to Det MW was missing a lot of calls. The Copy he got from her "FRIENDS" that printed it off the computer. Or as we know RH printed it off her online cingular wireless account.
I'd like to know who REVERSED looked up the numbers, had it been Det. MW wouldnt he have discovered that BJ's number at 11:43 was not SA. Seems the person who printed off the phone records in the beginning was starting off the info with false info. Her last call that day was 4:35, and one before that was 2:41. Which to me means he knows who those other calls were from.
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Wait a minute! I call foul. Her last call was 4:35 on October 31st and doesn't start up again until roughly 10:00 a.m. the next day? Did this girl have zero friends or family that called her or did she have a separate cell phone for personal calls? And where are her phone records for the days and weeks leading up to the day she disappeared? Those would be important in viewing her normal phone usage on this phone after a certain time of day and seeing if there was a pattern of unexplained calls that suddenly stopped on that day. The lack of evidence in this case is astounding.
 
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