Possible Murder Motives#2

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JL50ish said:
That is a defense that wouldn't work...that would be like a defense atty trying to defend a husband who killed his wife because he lovingly took care of her car and she left a bag of old McDonald fries in it. No jury would buy that as a reason to acquit.

All it would do would convince a jury that this person is guilty and not stable enough to ever be in the public again.
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I'm not sure about that. People in the media have painted him as some 'control freak' and have tried to dig up dirt on him. The true test of his character is how well did he behave in the work place, because they're trying to label this as workplace violence. If he had a history of blowing up at people and throwing things in anger, then you could argue he was a time bomb just waiting to go off. I haven't heard any of that in the media at all. I'm not even convinced that the two of them crossed paths that morning, and if they did, we're not sure exactly when she disappeared, only that she didn't appear on camera as leaving that day. I haven't heard any witnesses say they even saw her that day in the lab. Card swipes aren't password controlled, so anyone can use a card and their identity would not be known, whether it's the real one, or a forged one.
 
PatientOne said:
It doesn't help that RC's former neighbor who's been all over the media is saying he's a psycho, weirdo, crazy, etc. While she wouldn't be an expert witness, I suspect there's some psychiatrist who could be called upon to support an insanity plea, which may be RC's only hope of dodging the heaviest sentence.
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She could be a publicity hound as well. And it's one person who was a neighbour who says this. What about the other neighbours?
 
Shlock Homes said:
I haven't seen any pictures of Ray Clark wearing glasses, and I wouldn't describe his hair as reddish brown.
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Good point regarding the hair color :)

As for glasses, many of his high school pictures are of him in glasses.
 
Shlock Homes said:
I haven't seen any pictures of Ray Clark wearing glasses, and I wouldn't describe his hair as reddish brown.
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I have alot of natural reddish highlights in my hair, especially out in the daylight, and people sometimes describe it as reddish brown. However, it is not apparent or obvious in photos of me indoors. If it is in fact RC the same may or may not hold true.
 
eyes4crime said:
IMO, If Clark pleads 'not guilty' prompting a trial, the only one thing the defense can do is build his character around the years he has worked at Yale and attack Annie's..look at the evidence, DNA and otherwise. Building a case around pre-meditation is not out of the question. If not character, what do you propose the defense use to defend their client? TIA
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The defense really only has one choice...and that is to suggest that any evidence that was gathered is likely "contaminated" because the lab was not "locked down" right after Annie was reported missing. Of course, Yale will say that they can't lock down a building everytime a student is thought to be missing.
 
He could have had lasik surgery to correct his vision since high school. Millions of people have had that done.
 
PatientOne said:
It doesn't help that RC's former neighbor who's been all over the media is saying he's a psycho, weirdo, crazy, etc. While she wouldn't be an expert witness, I suspect there's some psychiatrist who could be called upon to support an insanity plea, which may be RC's only hope of dodging the heaviest sentence.
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Yeah, and with each time she appears, she embellishes her story. This neighbor needs to get herself back to her apartment and take care of her children. What she knows about Clark would fit in a thimble. :furious: I hate people, who have little to do with the perp or the victim, who insert themselves into the media.
 
I don't have a problem with the neighbor telling what she's seen. Neighbors often get to see tidbits of a person's real personality (as the neighbors of Garrido have disclosed.). And, it isn't strange at all that she has more info each time...as time goes by, she is remembering other odd things that she's observed.

I like the fact that she's disclosed that he wasn't "fastidious" about how his own pets were kept. Believe me, if the defense tries to claim that Clark was soooo bothered by how Annie kept her mice, the prosecution will bring forth this neighbor to testify that Clark wasn't so caring about his own pets (neighbor insists that you could smell dog urine and feces outside their apt.)

And, the stories about his interactions with his girlfriend - yelling at her in public, etc (the story about how she would have to scrape the ice off their car and get the car warm each morning before he would come out was very insightful - what MAN does that????
 
Since I don't believe the evidence doesn't point to Ray Clark as being the killer, or at least I'm not convinced, what other motive could there be for Annie's murder?

How about this? Jealousy? Her work, her intelligence? Perhaps her being out of the picture meant someone else would take over her work mid-stream and get the accolades? She wasn't some D average student. Maybe she was close to a break through in her research, and somebody didn't like it?

That would be another angle as to why she was killed. I don't think the motive was related to the state of her mouse cages.
 
Shlock Homes said:
Since I don't believe the evidence doesn't point to Ray Clark as being the killer, or at least I'm not convinced, what other motive could there be for Annie's murder?

How about this? Jealousy? Her work, her intelligence? Perhaps her being out of the picture meant someone else would take over her work mid-stream and get the accolades? She wasn't some D average student. Maybe she was close to a break through in her research, and somebody didn't like it?

That would be another angle as to why she was killed. I don't think the motive was related to the state of her mouse cages.
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I agree shlock, it's probaby not about the state of her cages.

OT~

Your name reminds me of a *advertiser censored* star. Sorry. I don't watch them but what can I say....:blushing: :D
 
Shlock Homes said:
Since I don't believe the evidence doesn't point to Ray Clark as being the killer, or at least I'm not convinced, what other motive could there be for Annie's murder?

How about this? Jealousy? Her work, her intelligence? Perhaps her being out of the picture meant someone else would take over her work mid-stream and get the accolades? She wasn't some D average student. Maybe she was close to a break through in her research, and somebody didn't like it?

That would be another angle as to why she was killed. I don't think the motive was related to the state of her mouse cages.
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Way back when - many of us speculated Annie was murdered by a fellow student or a professor because of the importance of her research and/or for the reasons you mention. They all were a strong possibility. I believe the evidence does point to Clark and continue to think it isn't over mouse hygiene. I also think this murder was pre-meditated in the sense Clark set this whole scenario up. mho
 
Sloof said:
Which evidence are you referring to?
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I used a double negative. I meant to say I don't believe the evidence points conclusively as Ray Clark the killer, or at least the sole person involved in this case. The card swipes sound significant, but they're easy to debunk because the use of them doesn't require the person using them to be the same.

If Ryan had this thing all planned out, then he would have used someone else's card, instead of his own. And he wouldn't have left the bloody clothing in a ceiling area where it would be found. The police haven't even said if it was male or female clothing, just that it had Annie's and his DNA.

Whoever killed her had the hiding of her body all planned out to avoid it being seen by people when they moved it from one room to its final resting place. But since the police didn't seal off that area, we can't be sure that her body was in there from Sept 8th onward. The autopsy hasn't even revealed a time of death or if there were any sedatives in her system.
 
Every once in a while, things aren't what they appear to be. However, most of the time, things are exactly what they appear to be: A man who dumped his wife's body when he said that he'd gone fishing alone on a holiday, a narcissistic mother who claims improbably that her daughter has been kidnapped over a month prior, a set of terrorists who fly planes into buildings because of ideology, a man who kills the wife he's been beating for years.

We cannot know for sure right now. RC is certainly innocent in they eyes of the law and should be until he confesses or is proven guilty. However, I believe pretty strongly in Occam's razor, and Occam's razor says this story is as simple as it is incomprehensible.
 
I do believe that the evidence points to Clark.. This is just one (of many) reasons why: assume he didn't do it...then likely he would have witnessed some odd thing or person around the lab. Since only he was around there with her, he would have likely witnessed some odd behavior or happening or heard a scream. The cameras show that she never left the building.. So, if he DIDN'T do it, how come he didn't witness anything odd?
 
Shlock Homes said:
I meant to say I don't believe the evidence points conclusively as Ray Clark the killer, or at least the sole person involved in this case. The card swipes sound significant, but they're easy to debunk because the use of them doesn't require the person using them to be the same.
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There are over 300 items (including DNA) and over 1,000 pages of documented evidence, of which a fraction has been leaked to the media. Your opinion and speculation that the "evidence" doesn't "conclusively point" a killer is, frankly, rather moot because the affidavit, warrant and admissable evidence will be sealed for at least another 3 weeks.
 
Shlock Homes said:
I used a double negative. I meant to say I don't believe the evidence points conclusively as Ray Clark the killer, or at least the sole person involved in this case. The card swipes sound significant, but they're easy to debunk because the use of them doesn't require the person using them to be the same.

If Ryan had this thing all planned out, then he would have used someone else's card, instead of his own. And he wouldn't have left the bloody clothing in a ceiling area where it would be found. The police haven't even said if it was male or female clothing, just that it had Annie's and his DNA.

Whoever killed her had the hiding of her body all planned out to avoid it being seen by people when they moved it from one room to its final resting place. But since the police didn't seal off that area, we can't be sure that her body was in there from Sept 8th onward. The autopsy hasn't even revealed a time of death or if there were any sedatives in her system.
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I think there is way too much theory talk for something that happened so fast. The evidence they have found is enough for a blind and deaf jury to convict. This also happened early in the day. You don't just wake up one morning, get dressed, go to work and kill someone before noon. There was obviously hatred and anger built up in this guy over time. I believe he had thought about killing her many times before he actually did it.

When I read about all of the possibilities it makes it sound like this crime was done over a course of days instead of the hour or so it did happen in. I think it was premeditated but panic set in when it all happened which lead to all of the poorly hid evidence.
 
septc said:
I think there is way too much theory talk for something that happened so fast. The evidence they have found is enough for a blind and deaf jury to convict. This also happened early in the day. You don't just wake up one morning, get dressed, go to work and kill someone before noon. There was obviously hatred and anger built up in this guy over time. I believe he had thought about killing her many times before he actually did it.
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I disagree on your point that there is enough evidence to convict by a 'blind and deaf jury'. You don't have any witnesses to the crime, and you don't have any video evidence. The evidence is all circumstantial, and it's not beyond a reason of a doubt, because you have to prove that Clark had the means to commit the murder and cover up the crime without any witnesses.

If he really did have anger building towards Annie, then it would have come out already that Annie felt threatened. We haven't heard anything of the sort. We've heard some stories about how Clark might be a control freak, but that could be words coming from people who had personal issues with Clark. His job may very well have been to be a 'control freak', or at least keep things running smoothly.

When I read about all of the possibilities it makes it sound like this crime was done over a course of days instead of the hour or so it did happen in. I think it was premeditated but panic set in when it all happened which lead to all of the poorly hid evidence.
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But why did Clark even need to hide the evidence? As far as I know, he didn't have to worry about bags being checked on his way out. He could have just stuck that stuff in a gym bag and walked out, rather than playing hide and go seek in various locations, which would have been much more risky. A person who does that is someone with a lot of time alone.

The affidavit never did say if there was blood found on the ceiling tiles where they found the sock and I think glove. If the killer was hiding those items right after murdering Annie, there would have been blood transfer onto the tiles. If there wasn't, that means those items must have been dry and hidden much later after her body had been hidden.
 
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