UID Victim: The Asian Male, UP9355, John Doe #8, poss. died 1996-2001, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

LR1 said:

snipped-


Just to clarify, it was 4 1/2 miles away.

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A couple of minutes drive is vicinity, I believe. If it's just the distance Jessica's torso is not connected to her skull as well.

EDIT: Do the math write the reasons why can be connected and why not. And you'll see there's not much than a few miles to deny the connection. And why a cop denies it outright. That's curious to me.

LikeAHunter said:

I've been reading the posts that try to connect the male victims to the female victims, and I just don't see it. The OB male was bludgeoned. Sugar Bear was shot and decapitated. Other male victims were beaten and dumped. The MOs are wildly different, IMO, especially compared to the GB4.

The GB4 is one killer. Maybe the Manorville victims are related but maybe they're not. But I have a hard time connecting the males (with the possible exception of the bludgeoned OB male) to the GB4.

Of course, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. But I wanted to offer another possible explanation: The NYC metro area is filled with crime and criminals.

This 2011 NYT article specifically addresses the fact that no less than 3 SKs were operating on LI in recent years: Rifkin, Shulman, and LISK, plus the Gormley dude you'll see below. (And now the number of SKs is 4+ with the addition of Bittrolff.) What's more is that all three SKs targeted prostitutes.



BBM
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/weekinreview/10killer.html?_r=0

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I believe I'm on the money with this Asian Male.

EDIT: And a decapitated torso and an intact body in burlap are exactly the same things to my eye, I just don't want to elaborate. I recommend pay heed to Dormer, he's got some insider from Behavioral Analysis folks I understand. You can catch the idea, in clues scattered in his words.

EDIT 2: I believe LindsayLohan6 pointed out to a fairly accurate direction to ID the Asian Male. IMHO the cops should take out their old records and run through the names they have contacted during the Sugar Bear investigation, starting with the fellow who gave his testimony to have witnessed Bear getting in that fancy car. "Witness" being the key word here.

I've always thought that the male found near Jones Beach field area 6 and Manorville found near the LIE were either men hooking up with another man, male prostitutes or underling drug dealers.

Emre E said:

I believe I'm on the money with this Asian Male.

EDIT: And a decapitated torso and an intact body in burlap are exactly the same things to my eye, I just don't want to elaborate. I recommend pay heed to Dormer, he's got some insider from Behavioral Analysis folks I understand. You can catch the idea, in clues scattered in his words.

EDIT 2: I believe LindsayLohan6 pointed out to a fairly accurate direction to ID the Asian Male. IMHO the cops should take out their old records and run through the names they have contacted during the Sugar Bear investigation, starting with the fellow who gave his testimony to have witnessed Bear getting in that fancy car. "Witness" being the key word here.

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Regarding Dormer, this seems to contradict your own theory. Dormer said he believes it's one killer. You've said that you believe it's work of an organized crime ring. So I don't get why you'd be using Dormer to backup your theory. If I'm missing something, then please clarify.

Also, Dormer surely would have had info from FBI profilers...and so would the other higher-ups working on the case. Yet everyone in LE seems to disagree about the number of killers.

And don't forget, the FBI profile that was reported in the NYT and other MSM references one serial killer (of the GB4) who is organized and intelligent.

Question to Law Enforcement: Why don't you make the clothes of the Asian Male public?

Asian Male

Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/05/09/jessica-taylor-identified-as-skull-on-ocean-parkway/

The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women’s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt-for-a-li-serial-killer-revisting-the-gilgo-beach-murders/

Question: Is Asian Male Asian?

If the Asian was a cross-dresser or a <modsnip>, Spota would have probably known him or met him someplace. These guys remindt me of three well known characters - 1. A very high ranking church official, 2. A very, very, high LE official, 3. A well known crooked lawyer. They all liked to go out on a yacht and play 'dress up'.

When I was a young detective I often met up with FBI agents. They were usually trying to steal our cases, or sell them out to our targets. The older detectives told me if I ever wanted to get rid of them I should ask them about the boat trips that 1,2,and 3 were rumored to take. It worked every time.....LOL.

About Jane Doe 2000

Fitzpatrick is still withholding the image of a tattoo located on the female victim for verification purposes if they ever get a call through Crimestoppers

http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news18.html

So, here's the logic, somebody is going to recognize a torso as someone s/he knew, s/he will call Crimestoppers and Detective Fitzpatrick is going to ask him/her "Tell me the tattoo Jane Doe 2000 has on her" to verify the tipster.

Did you hear anything as stupid as this?

Questions to Law Enforcement, one more time:
Question 1: Why don't you make the clothes of the Asian Male public?
Question 2: Is Asian Male Asian?

A surprise may be on the way.

Who is the Asian Male?

Let&#8217;s look at what we have about him

https://identifyus.org/cases/9355
Asian Male is in the age bracket of 17-23, Height 5.6, slim built, Estimated postmortem interval is 5 Years and wearing women&#8217;s clothes. He has poor dental health (i.e. an indicator of he is from a poor family) His DNA is on the database. He is bludgeoned.


...and he is Asian, or to be more precise...

Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/05/09/jessica-taylor-identified-as-skull-on-ocean-parkway

The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women&#8217;s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt-for-a-li-serial-killer-revisting-the-gilgo-beach-murders


Question: Is Asian Male Asian?



Judging by the guarded wording given to the news outlets, it can be said that calling him Asian wasn&#8217;t so easy for the forensic anthropologist.

I posted a method called DNA profiling here before. It means you can get the racial appearance by examining the DNA. It&#8217;s a bit expensive and fairly new technology. The classic method is assessing the skeleton (and skull) to estimate the age and race.

Now, let&#8217;s asses the skeleton of the Asian Male.

In his case, the age estimate is based on the growth plates
https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...&sa=X&ei=9D8vVKqeH5HtaM6YgqgH&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

These plates disappear as we become adults. Medical Examiner checked the knees, saw the growth plates and judged the skeleton belongs to a late teen.

The skull was &#8220;challenging&#8221;, but to create an artist&#8217;s impression ME has to give some input. So, they &#8220;picked&#8221; Asian and we got the famous Asian Male sketch.

If assessing the skull was actually hard for the ME, then this person may have some mixed bloodlines. That means he may not be Asian or he may not look as Asian as one would expect (!).

So, we need to find a missing person: He will be a late teen. He will be from a poor family. He will be wearing women&#8217;s clothes, he will be 5.6, he will be slim built, he will be missing at least since 2005... just one slight adjustment of the parameters, he may or may NOT be Asian.

I believe you can spot the same young man I did and once you find him and do a research on the net, you&#8217;ll see how much he fits.

Emre E said:

Who is the Asian Male?

Let’s look at what we have about him

https://identifyus.org/cases/9355
Asian Male is in the age bracket of 17-23, Height 5.6, slim built, Estimated postmortem interval is 5 Years and wearing women’s clothes. He has poor dental health (i.e. an indicator of he is from a poor family) His DNA is on the database. He is bludgeoned.


...and he is Asian, or to be more precise...

Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/05/09/jessica-taylor-identified-as-skull-on-ocean-parkway

The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women’s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt-for-a-li-serial-killer-revisting-the-gilgo-beach-murders


Question: Is Asian Male Asian?



Judging by the guarded wording given to the news outlets, it can be said that calling him Asian wasn’t so easy for the forensic anthropologist.

I posted a method called DNA profiling here before. It means you can get the racial appearance by examining the DNA. It’s a bit expensive and fairly new technology. The classic method is assessing the skeleton (and skull) to estimate the age and race.

Now, let’s asses the skeleton of the Asian Male.

In his case, the age estimate is based on the growth plates
https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...&sa=X&ei=9D8vVKqeH5HtaM6YgqgH&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

These plates disappear as we become adults. Medical Examiner checked the knees, saw the growth plates and judged the skeleton belongs to a late teen.

The skull was “challenging”, but to create an artist’s impression ME has to give some input. So, they “picked” Asian and we got the famous Asian Male sketch.

If assessing the skull was actually hard for the ME, then this person may have some mixed bloodlines. That means he may not be Asian or he may not look as Asian as one would expect (!).

So, we need to find a missing person: He will be a late teen. He will be from a poor family. He will be wearing women’s clothes, he will be 5.6, he will be slim built, he will be missing at least since 2005... just one slight adjustment of the parameters, he may or may NOT be Asian.

I believe you can spot the same young man I did and once you find him and do a research on the net, you’ll see how much he fits.

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Why don't you just post who you found ?

Since this is still the theory thread

I believe Asian Male https://identifyus.org/cases/9355

is Tirrel Santiago https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9508/53

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/santiago_tirrel.html
http://nypost.com/2005/09/26/nypd-daily-blotter-1210/
http://madamestbeatrice.tumblr.com/post/75512841734/the-charley-project-tirrel-santiago

Emre Theres no mention of DNA on NAMUS for Tirrel. If LE did not have access to his DNA, then they should have taken it from a family member.We keep hearing if DNA is not in the system then it means a missing persons report was not filed. NONSENSE.

Emre, The male victim is listed as being Asian. I dont think the ME would say that unless his DNA indicated that. Is Tirrel part Asian?

deedee21 said:

Emre, The male victim is listed as being Asian. I dont think the ME would say that unless his DNA indicated that. Is Tirrel part Asian?

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He went missing in 2005 and he was entered in the database in 2011. I understand he is from a very poor family with minimal capabilities to pursue his case.

They don't attribute race by checking DNA, they use classic forensic anthropology. Normally, there's no need to do otherwise. But I believe a mistake is made in the identification of his skull on Gilgo Beach. Since they need an input to create a sketch for the unided person - that is an artist's rendition - they chose Asian.

As you can see from his eyes Tirrel doesn't simply look an African American person, he has mixed bloodlines. EDIT ... very thin build, medium complexion...

I understand Santiago family has ties to Puerto Rico, I tried to figure some of his relatives in East New York, not sure how many Santiagos are actually linked to him but it seems their family may have ties to Philippines as well. But why would you let me convince you, do your own research. You can compare the facial characteristics of the sketch with Tirrel's photos and case facts in the light of Rashawn Brazzel murder.

I personally know that NYPD is involved, I also posted a letter to Namus with requests to forward the information to both NYPD and SCPD, however I did not receive any feedback since our initial exchange. Though I am quite sure that the Asian Male is Tirrel Santiago (If you read the posts above you'll see why), I am also aware that I may not be right. So, putting Tirrel's DNA on the database wouldn't hurt.

As you saw, Tirrel Santiago has no DNA sample filed. I don't know if his DNA can be found in his home after almost ten years but according to the news outlets he was reported missing by his family, i.e. he has a family. They can compare his familial DNA with the Asian Male.

Their noses look similar to me. I hope LE is looking into this.

Aleph said:

Their noses look similar to me. I hope LE is looking into this.

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Though the nose is mostly cartilage the nose opening on the skull hints about the shape. In addition to circumstantial similarities of the cases, I find the height of his forehead, cheekbones, chin and overall shape of his face similar.

A higher res picture of him.
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC1180750c1.jpg
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1180750

Forensic Anthropology: Concept of "Race"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMdqE94CQ9M

Racial Differences In Skull Shapes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TJH70aDctE

Emre, I dont understand why someone from NAMUS or LE has not contacted a family member of Terril for DNA. They know its needed for identification. They are so complacent.

Emre,
I agree, it's a good find and you may really be on to something- the victim's other attributes certainly fit. I really hope this is pursued so he can either be identified or ruled out.

* Police are searching for a 16-year-old boy who disappeared in Greenwich Village.
Tirrel Santiago (above) was last seen getting into a cab with an unidentified man at West 10th and Hudson streets at 9:15 p.m. Aug. 21.
http://nypost.com/2005/09/26/nypd-daily-blotter-1210/

I think there is a very good possibility that Asian Male is Tirrel

I wonder where Tirrel & unidentified man were headed when the got in the cab? Somewhere in Manhattan or where they headed out to Brooklyn in a cab (expensive). What's interesting is the place where Tirrel was last seen (West 10th & Hudson) is not far from the blog post that Emre shared about the men who approached Rashawn and his friends

LindsayLohan6 said:

* Police are searching for a 16-year-old boy who disappeared in Greenwich Village.
Tirrel Santiago (above) was last seen getting into a cab with an unidentified man at West 10th and Hudson streets at 9:15 p.m. Aug. 21.
http://nypost.com/2005/09/26/nypd-daily-blotter-1210/

I think there is a very good possibility that Asian Male is Tirrel

I wonder where Tirrel & unidentified man were headed when the got in the cab? Somewhere in Manhattan or where they headed out to Brooklyn in a cab (expensive). What's interesting is the place where Tirrel was last seen (West 10th & Hudson) is not far from the blog post that Emre shared about the men who approached Rashawn and his friends

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There are several versions
1. missing since August 20, 2005 from Brooklyn, New York
2. August 12, 2005 from New York City, New York
3. was last seen getting into a cab with an unidentified man at West 10th and Hudson streets at 9:15 p.m. Aug. 21.
4. August 12, 2005 in the vicinity of 306 Rodney Street in Brooklyn, New

EDIT: I wonder if Tirrel had a phone and a Myspace page (year 2005). I couldn't find one.