Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

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Blue Amethyst said:
I wonder if DG followed the case of the McCanns. They arrested a suspect but then had to hold him on separate charges. There were no bodies and I don't think they have enough evidence to arrest TV for murder. Perhaps that is where he got the idea to make the bodies disappear and then there is not enough evidence against you. I am surprised that he didn't burn the house down.
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I am of the belief that part of the evidence taken from the acreage was DG's computer with research on various cases, disposal methods, and perhaps even some type of 'plan'. This would help explain the first degree murder charges.

I also think he fully intended to stage the crime scene to point to the victims leaving the country. Like Sleeby suggests, I think he ran out of time, had an unexpected hitch in his plan, and couldn't return to finish cleaning the crime scene. From what we know of the suspect, I would surmise that he planned this out very methodically and didn't take well to unexpected problems. The addition of NO must have really threw him for a loop. Perhaps he was driving around that night, not because he was ill-prepared to execute his plan, but because he was waiting for NO to leave or to decide what he should do. I would imagine that a large change in his plan would have set him off course.
 
deugirtni said:
Is this known to have happened or hypothetical?
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Otto can correct me if wrong, but I think he's referring to the new home being built down the street from the L home as the construction site (it was that home that had the cameras that captured green truck)

Also, I'm wondering if there's an object from the home that's missing that could've been used in a bludgeoning type attack (hence the need for people who had been to estate sale to come forward to ensure it wasn't a purchased item and for the comment from the CPS media guy saying they are looking for specific item(s).) with all the focus on the slough on the acreage, I was curious if perhaps they maybe found such an object (thus tying him to the L home?) but need the bodies to prove it was used as such?
 
Krystine said:
GRAPIC
Although I have only a small frame of reference, (dad had a slaughterhouse/butcher shop) it seems to me that murder and dismembering 3 bodies is a lot of "work" in a 12 hour time frame. Given the slippery mess of blood and other excretions. Sorry, I know it seems disrespectful to the deceased to even go there.
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I don't think he would have carved them up into butcher quality pieces, but rather enough to make identifying the bodies more difficult and to make it easier to transport and dump. Bathtubs are commonly used as most people think the evidence is washed away easily but it's not. Without getting too graphic, power tools are also commonly used for this purpose. I can't get to my links at the moment but I will see if I can insert some later.
 
YYC Lady said:
Otto can correct me if wrong, but I think he's referring to the new home being built down the street from the L home as the construction site (it was that home that had the cameras that captured green truck)

Also, I'm wondering if there's an object from the home that's missing that could've been used in a bludgeoning type attack (hence the need for people who had been to estate sale to come forward to ensure it wasn't a purchased item and for the comment from the CPS media guy saying they are looking for specific item(s).) with all the focus on the slough on the acreage, I was curious if perhaps they maybe found such an object (thus tying him to the L home?) but need the bodies to prove it was used as such?
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I would think he wouldn't plan a murder and leave the murder weapon up to chance. I'm thinking a tire iron.
 
goodasgold said:
I was thinking more on the lines of NO being relocated because he slept through the murder of AL and KL in another room. Here are my reasons for it.

When someone goes into witness protection the family is unaware and if it is a child only the parents can know and sometimes not both parents. If NO slept through it and JO found him the next morning, they may be hiding NO for his own safety[modsnip]. This would reason for many things. 1) Why the scene was discovered at 10:00 am yet Amber Alert was not issued until late afternoon. (perhaps get NO out of Alberta before Amber Alert). 2) The parents commenting they know he is out there because he was not supposed to be there. (may explain him sleeping through the crime). 3) Why she would not comment on last time she seen NO even when it was public that is was 10:00 pm when she left. (maybe she seen him that morning, [modsnip]. 4) Why it states only 2 homicides at the house on the crime map. (they cannot legally say there were 3.) However in witness protection LE will fake Amber Alerts and even deaths. Hence throwing the 2nd degree murder in there. (may want DG to talk and say he never seen the kid and admitting he was there with AL/KL.

I have shared this with a couple people already and i know you guys think i am crazy and maybe i am for thinking this. But it has always been in the back of my mind. Just an idea of mine, not in stone. JMO
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Witness protection is for people that face an ongoing threat, and in the case of children, the whole immediate family is also placed. It is an incredibly expensive undertaking and something that is not done commonly.

As I have mentioned before, I think the reason the crime map only shows two murders, is because they cannot definitively determine that one of the murders took place at the Liknes home.
 
news.talk said:
I would think he wouldn't plan a murder and leave the murder weapon up to chance. I'm thinking a tire iron.
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I agree with you. I guess I wondered if the surprise of NO being there meant he was caught off guard and ended up using a secondary weapon. Or maybe there are items from the house that were used as disposal, and those were found at acreage/in slough. (I'm of the opinion some thing(s) of large evidentiary value had to have been found at the acreage)
 
goodasgold said:
I was thinking more on the lines of NO being relocated because he slept through the murder of AL and KL in another room. Here are my reasons for it.

When someone goes into witness protection the family is unaware and if it is a child only the parents can know and sometimes not both parents. If NO slept through it and JO found him the next morning, they may be hiding NO for his own safety[modsnip]. This would reason for many things. 1) Why the scene was discovered at 10:00 am yet Amber Alert was not issued until late afternoon. (perhaps get NO out of Alberta before Amber Alert). 2) The parents commenting they know he is out there because he was not supposed to be there. (may explain him sleeping through the crime). 3) Why she would not comment on last time she seen NO even when it was public that is was 10:00 pm when she left. (maybe she seen him that morning, [modsnip]. 4) Why it states only 2 homicides at the house on the crime map. (they cannot legally say there were 3.) However in witness protection LE will fake Amber Alerts and even deaths. Hence throwing the 2nd degree murder in there. (may want DG to talk and say he never seen the kid and admitting he was there with AL/KL.

I have shared this with a couple people already and i know you guys think i am crazy and maybe i am for thinking this. But it has always been in the back of my mind. Just an idea of mine, not in stone. JMO
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I would love to think this is the case for NO to be in witness protection. It is possible but the pain JO and RO have demonstrated is so anguished that I cant connect the dots with this scenerio. But still a possibility that I never considered before.
 
Krystine said:
Ahh...you are thinking LE moved the greenhouse. I was thinking you meant DG moved it, assuming to hide the remains. He would have had time, with his parents camping in the first part of July.
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Speculating only ~ if suspect was on the neighbors porch hoping for a view of the greenhouse what could be other reasons? Maybe not for recent crimes but for a previous crime committed and evidence hidden relating to greenhouse?
 
ldbd said:
I would love to think this is the case for NO to be in witness protection. It is possible but the pain JO and RO have demonstrated is so anguished that I cant connect the dots with this scenerio. But still a possibility that I never considered before.
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I would be really upset if i did not know how long it will be before i can see my little boy. I would cry not only for me but for him. i would also be emotional with my parents and in-laws passing. Maybe the conference was the only way LE would let them speak to him and that is why they were talking to him rather than an abductor. That may also explain why JO said even tho we cannot be with you, the best people other than us are with you and then added that it was the grandparents because LE said they had to make it look like the grandparents. And also why they kept saying Nathan to get his attention when they were talking to him. Wishful thinking, i know.
 
news.talk said:
I don't think he would have carved them up into butcher quality pieces, but rather enough to make identifying the bodies more difficult and to make it easier to transport and dump. Bathtubs are commonly used as most people think the evidence is washed away easily but it's not. Without getting too graphic, power tools are also commonly used for this purpose. I can't get to my links at the moment but I will see if I can insert some later.
Click to expand...

Having been raised in a family that hunts and also hunting after marriage, I have seen and done my share of butchering meat. My opinion is that it would not be all that difficult to dismember a body of 2 arms and two legs. If DG had any experience butchering animals at all, he would know exactly how to severe limbs through the cartilages and joints. If dismemberment was a consideration here, I would very much doubt the accused would just randomly hack and saw through bones with whatever is on hand at the scene. That would indeed take time and effort. A sharp knife, possibly a cleaver, and a small hand saw would be all the tools necessary to get a job done. Also, my thoughts went to a big roll of heavy duty poly as a ground sheet would make cleanup easy. That was how we used to butcher wild game, anyway.
 
goodasgold said:
I would be really upset if i did not know how long it will be before i can see my little boy. I would cry not only for me but for him. i would also be emotional with my parents and in-laws passing. Maybe the conference was the only way LE would let them speak to him and that is why they were talking to him rather than an abductor. That may also explain why JO said even tho we cannot be with you, the best people other than us are with you and then added that it was the grandparents because LE said they had to make it look like the grandparents. And also why they kept saying Nathan to get his attention when they were talking to him. Wishful thinking, i know.
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The premise that the child survived is understandable as it is almost unfathomable to imagine the alternative.

Unfortunately, I have never heard of a case where a young child was placed in WP without the other members of the immediate family.
 
OutOfTheDarkness said:
If no one is there, and you're so far removed from the public and your neighbors, again, are you really going to go through the trouble of embalming? Would getting the fluids and apparatus necessary really be worth the time to kill a possible smell for a day? Add a fourth "highly" to my earlier speculation.
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lol...okay :) Makes sense. :)
 
Power of Two said:
Having been raised in a family that hunts and also hunting after marriage, I have seen and done my share of butchering meat. My opinion is that it would not be all that difficult to dismember a body of 2 arms and two legs. If DG had any experience butchering animals at all, he would know exactly how to severe limbs through the cartilages and joints. If dismemberment was a consideration here, I would very much doubt the accused would just randomly hack and saw through bones with whatever is on hand at the scene. That would indeed take time and effort. A sharp knife, possibly a cleaver, and a small hand saw would be all the tools necessary to get a job done. Also, my thoughts went to a big roll of heavy duty poly as a ground sheet would make cleanup easy. That was how we used to butcher wild game, anyway.
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We had a picture of LE in the Liknes garage. It looked like a pretty well stocked garage. A simple skill saw would be all that's necessary. I agree with you - it doesn't take long at all to make a few cuts.
 
news.talk said:
We had a picture of LE in the Liknes garage. It looked like a pretty well stocked garage. A simple skill saw would be all that's necessary. I agree with you - it doesn't take long at all to make a few cuts.
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But why would DG take the risk of relying on what the Liknes supply of tools would be? If he is so methodical, he brought his own choice of tools or weapon.
 
Going to start a new thread. I'll bring some posts over so you can continue the discussion. Please be ready to move over. Thanks!
 
Krystine said:
I'm not defending one theory over another, we don't have enough evidence to take a strong stand either way.
IMO>
Having said that, I think SL has a good point about the farm machinery/backhoe/front end loader.... No one is ever going to check an implement like that for contents of the loader.[/B] Bodies or remnants of could be mixed/covered up with other materials, and someone digging in a ditch with a backhoe has instant credibility with locals...

JMO but I think LE would definitely check the contents of the loader for sure...it could be used to dig graves or push things further into a slough. If they check the box of a truck for evidence....they'll check the contents of a loader bucket for sure, for potential evidence.
If neighbors or anyone told LE that DG was digging a ditch with a front end loader near the time the victims went missing, you bet they'll be asking some questions and checking!
IMO, if they didn't...that would be quite a sloppy investigation. LE it seems, is being extremely thorough.
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OutOfTheDarkness said:
Landfills are businesses with opening and closing times, fences, cameras, scales... you can't just pull up at midnight and kick things out of your vehicle.
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And there are scales at the landfills now, I believe you have to pay to dump anything there.
 
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