Police asks help identifying the people in photos taken by murderer

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Billylee said:
Which photo are you referring to? Can you link it please?
Click to expand...

Here it is:

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00641.jpg

This is the possible match to Dorothy Clitheroe missing from Phoenix. You can see the bruise on the right leg above the knee and possible bruising on the left leg. I don't see any writing on her arm except something that looks like the letter "D". She's pointing to it. According to her Charley Project page, one of Dorothy's forearms was scarred due to her backing into a hot radiator and the name "US Steel" was imprinted into her skin, but most of it was gone by 1973. The letter "U" might have been the only one still showing. Could what looks like a "D" in the pic actually be a "U"?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/clitheroe_dorothy.html
 
I think it could be a "U" also. If she backed into the radiator kind of sideways and the fron of her arm hit it, the "U" would be facing with the curved part pointing to her wrist. With her arm lifted the way it is, the "U" is in that position. I think this is very possible. Good find.:dance:
 
side by side:

clitheroelarger.jpg
M0208008.jpg
 
JoeFromLB said:
Here it is:

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00641.jpg

This is the possible match to Dorothy Clitheroe missing from Phoenix. You can see the bruise on the right leg above the knee and possible bruising on the left leg. I don't see any writing on her arm except something that looks like the letter "D". She's pointing to it. According to her Charley Project page, one of Dorothy's forearms was scarred due to her backing into a hot radiator and the name "US Steel" was imprinted into her skin, but most of it was gone by 1973. The letter "U" might have been the only one still showing. Could what looks like a "D" in the pic actually be a "U"?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/clitheroe_dorothy.html
Click to expand...

Thanks. I thought they were red and white striped, so I was looking all over for blue and white striped and couldn't figure out who you were talking about. LOL now I see the lens probably made them red. I have thought all along this looks just like Dorothy, if not, it's her twin. I wonder if she's one of the ones their investigating from AZ, I wish they'd say who they're checking out already and take the ones that have called in off the grid.
 
scuseme said:
I think it could be a "U" also. If she backed into the radiator kind of sideways and the fron of her arm hit it, the "U" would be facing with the curved part pointing to her wrist. With her arm lifted the way it is, the "U" is in that position. I think this is very possible. Good find.:dance:
Click to expand...

I just had a horrible thought. Is it possible he had already threatened and/or beat her before taking her to some deserted location to shoot these photos? Did she have a premontion that she might not come out of this safely and wanted someone to identify her photo by the "U" imprinted on her forearm?

Or am I just reading too much into all this?
 
Random pointless observation of the day:
This photo
00223.jpg

reminds me of this album cover
darkside.jpg


What's the significance of the rainbow suspenders? Just a fashion statement or does it mean anything?
 
JoeFromLB said:
I just had a horrible thought. Is it possible he had already threatened and/or beat her before taking her to some deserted location to shoot these photos? Did she have a premontion that she might not come out of this safely and wanted someone to identify her photo by the "U" imprinted on her forearm?

Or am I just reading too much into all this?
Click to expand...

Her smile strikes me as pretty genuine. Think she might look more scared if she had just been threatened and beaten and thought that she could end up badly and need identification? If it's Clitheroe she might be pointing at the marking as a "Clumsy me, look what I've got here, I can laugh about it now but let me tell you it hurt like hello when I got it" sort of thing. Not that it matters if it's somebody Alcala killed, she'd have become scared eventually...

She's pointing at her chin too, did she have anything there or is it just a cute pose?
 
How about this Alcala pic compared to Laureen Ann Rahn?

Have we already looked at Laureen? If so I do apologize.
 

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Very good observations on the writing/markings on what could be the Clitheroe girl.
I can tell you this, "back in the day" when I was a runaway I kept my ss# written on the bottom of my foot with black permanent marker, along with all kinds of other strange things to try and be sure if I disappeared I might be identified. Strange how we think at 14 years of age. It rarely occurred to me I would not be found in time to still have flesh... My trivia for the day, just trying to show you that yes she may very well be thinking like that.
 
JoeFromLB said:
I just had a horrible thought. Is it possible he had already threatened and/or beat her before taking her to some deserted location to shoot these photos? Did she have a premontion that she might not come out of this safely and wanted someone to identify her photo by the "U" imprinted on her forearm?
Click to expand...
The woman in this picture is smiling and looks playful. If she thought she was about to die, I can't imagine she would have a lighthearted expression. She would be in survival mode.
 
Katrinka said:
The woman in this picture is smiling and looks playful. If she thought she was about to die, I can't imagine she would have a lighthearted expression. She would be in survival mode.
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Not if she thinks she is giving him what he wants and it buys her time to come up with an idea, IMO.

Another thought might be if Alcala had asked her to point to any scars she had.

I see him as knowing how to manipulate them and the situation, orchestrate might be the word. I think he did a lot of it just to capture the different emotions and responses on film. They were mere puppets to him and he liked to be in charge and make them dance at his whim. When the dance was over he killed them and needed a new puppet. Very sick. All just my opinion though.
 
dsntslp said:
The girl in the engineer shorts (blue and white stripes) in the pic that looks like it has been taken through a red filter has very ugly bruising on both legs. Her right leg has two round marks the size of fists and her left leg has a band of bruising that is quite a few inches long and at least an inch wide. She also has a left ankle that is so swollen looking that it is hard to discern an ankle bone but when I see that same ankle in her other pic it looks normal, so idk. Maybe it was just the way she was standing. (From memory here, apologies if slightly off.) And that is one of two pic's where I believe the subject has writing on her arm, perhaps it says "Alcala" or something. I can see it but can't read it. She is pointing to it even.
Click to expand...

Your post got me to look again at this pic and that's when I finally saw the writing. I had looked at this picture many times but not in the larger size.
I've got the Nancy Grace site bookmarked now!
 
Thank you JoefromLB.
The girl in the window with the hat has faded writing on her arm also if you want to try a crack at that one. It is on the arm closest to the window. I have blown it up every way I know how and just can't quite make it out.
 
dsntslp said:
Geeez, I messed that one up. Apologies. Bleary eyed and all running together now. I think I'll just read along and not try to match them. LOL
Click to expand...

I know how you feel! It's frustrating because some of the really good photo matches have serious timeline problems.
 
Donjeta said:
Random pointless observation of the day:
This photo
00223.jpg

reminds me of this album cover
darkside.jpg


What's the significance of the rainbow suspenders? Just a fashion statement or does it mean anything?
Click to expand...

You can thank Robin Williams (Mork) for the popularity of the rainbow suspenders. The Mork and Mindy show aired from 1978 to 1982. So I'm guessing this pictures was from 78 or 79 prior to Alcala's arrest in 79.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCQQsAQwAw
 
dsntslp said:
Geeez, I messed that one up. Apologies. Bleary eyed and all running together now. I think I'll just read along and not try to match them. LOL
Click to expand...

I made the same mistake a ways back. The resemblance really is strong, but no way the timeline works.
 
JoeFromLB said:
I've put this together from several sources (news reports, court documents, blogs, etc). There are some additional dates I'm still trying to pin down.
*snip*

1968-1971 enrolled at NYU, film studies with director Roman Polanski (New York)

1970-71 summer camp counselor (New Hampshire) alias John Burger (or Berger)

1971 (June 12) Cornelia Crilley, age 23 (Murder; Suspected. New York)

1971 FBI Ten Most Wanted List

1971-1974 (arrested August 12, 1971 in Concord, NH under the assumed
name of John Berger, convicted in California March 1972) incarcerated ("Tali S.")

*snip*
Click to expand...

Here's a map and a list of some NH unsolved homicides. http://snewzer.tripod.com/id1.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/710ufnh.html

Does she look like anybody we've seen? (She'd been dead 1-3 months so the reconstructions are likely to be approximations only. If Alcala did it 3 months is closer.)

710UFNH.jpg
710UFNH1.jpg
710UFNH2.jpg
710UFNH3.jpg


Unidentified White Female

* The victim was discovered on October 6, 1971 in Bedford, New Hampshire
* Estimated Date of Death: 1 to 3 months prior to discovery

Vital Statistics

* Estimated age: 25 - 35 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'1" - 5'5".
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Possibly brown hair.
* Clothing: size 7 sandals, dungarees cut to make them short or hip huggers, 32" waist, Maroon or red pullover blouse, laced at neck,
* Fingerprints: Not available.
* Dentals: Available
* DNA: Not available.

Case History
The victim was found October 6, 1971 on a logging road in the woods which was at the end of Kilton Road. Kilton Road has since been extended and is an on-ramp to Route 101 West ( a four lane divided highway at that point).
 
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