$118,000 = 1:18 A.m. = T.o.d.?

[narlacat]

QUOTE>>And that takes us back to the first question even before that, who,what,when,where,why was the amount of the bonus made to match the number of such a Psalm?

Simple question, isn't it, but who has an answer?<<

Eagle
But we don't know if the bonus was made to match the number of a psalm do we??

 

[narlacat]

I will say it again: 1:18 was the time the clock struck just after the victim was woken up by the perp in the movie "Nick of Time", the movie that was played at the Whites that night, according to guest Bill Cox.Set Back The Clock ?

I tend to think the ransom note figure must have had something to do with the 1:18 on the clock in the "Nick of Time",but then you really can't look past it being JR's bonus....
Someone should start a thread titled Coincidences and the Ramsey case, there's so many little things that are remarkably coincidental.

 

[Maikai]

QUOTE>>And that takes us back to the first question even before that, who,what,when,where,why was the amount of the bonus made to match the number of such a Psalm?

Simple question, isn't it, but who has an answer?<<

Eagle
But we don't know if the bonus was made to match the number of a psalm do we??

the time on the clock when Perry was hung, from "In Cold Blood."
'Course we can speculate 'till the cows come home, but who can verify the correct answer? Only the perp. There is evidence that has never been made public, according to Lou Smit.

 

[narlacat]

the time on the clock when Perry was hung, from "In Cold Blood."
'Course we can speculate 'till the cows come home, but who can verify the correct answer? Only the perp. There is evidence that has never been made public, according to Lou Smit.

I didn't know that Maikai, I havent seen In Cold Blood.
You are right of course, only the perp knows the real reasons.
Why is some evidence still not known to the public?? How come it hasn't been leaked like all the other evidence??

 

[Maikai]

I didn't know that Maikai, I havent seen In Cold Blood.
You are right of course, only the perp knows the real reasons.
Why is some evidence still not known to the public?? How come it hasn't been leaked like all the other evidence??

I'll try to find the actual cite, but "In Cold Blood" was a big topic of conversation a few years back, and I remember someone bringing up the time Perry was hung. Some think that movie was an inspiration. They showed them buying cord, etc. in a hardware store, and they used a flashlight while they prowled around the house. Also, the reason they chose their victims was because they thought there was a safe in the house loaded with money. The cellar room in the Ramsey house had a floor safe in it. The second made for TV movie was released around Thanksgiving of l996.

Lou Smit said there was evidence not made public. Maybe they did manage to keep a few things quiet. One reason might be because it pointed to an intruder and away from a Ramsey. At one time Pam had said there were things missing from the house---no detail, just that items were missing. There might have been something strange about the French doors in JBR's room.

There was a santa claus suit taken in as evidence---there must have been something about it that caught someone's attention when they searched the house. Afterall, the basement supposedly had a lot of stuff in it--why take the santa suit? The Ramseys did own a Santa suit.

Cigarette butts were taken in along with leaves. What's the odds that if the perp was a smoker, he didn't smoke while prowling around the house outside? Nothing ever reported if they were tested for DNA.

 

[narlacat]

Thanks for that info about In Cold Blood, I can see why some people think it was inspirational.
I kinda don't look at it that it was an inspiration for someone to go out and perform a crime, a copy cat type thing, I think it was inspiration for the fake ransom note which was written as part of an elaborate cover up.
I dunno, there's just too many lines from movies etc for me to think that the note is in anyway real. It's way too contrived and with noone actually being kidnapped and no kidnapper's calling......
It's a pity we don't know all the facts, seems unfair we're allowed to know so much...and not be able to know everything!! , it does make you wonder why some things have been kept quiet, what could it matter now?

 

[Maikai]

Thanks for that info about In Cold Blood, I can see why some people think it was inspirational.
I kinda don't look at it that it was an inspiration for someone to go out and perform a crime, a copy cat type thing, I think it was inspiration for the fake ransom note which was written as part of an elaborate cover up.
I dunno, there's just too many lines from movies etc for me to think that the note is in anyway real. It's way too contrived and with noone actually being kidnapped and no kidnapper's calling......
It's a pity we don't know all the facts, seems unfair we're allowed to know so much...and not be able to know everything!! , it does make you wonder why some things have been kept quiet, what could it matter now?

If JBR hadn't been murdered, but had been taken out of the house, and then left somewhere unharmed, the note would have been a bad joke, and the whole plan perhaps chalked up to some punks wanting attention. Who has a stun gun and bat? Doesn't point to an older perp, IMO. Who would write a nonsense kidnapping note copied from movie lines and themes? I tend to think there were two----one that was duped into writing the note--the other a much darker personality. A lot of drugs flowed into Boulder......a mind on drugs such as meth might explain the unexplainable. Meth users can fly into rages, and have a sense of omnipotence while high.

Larry Posner once said not all murders are solved and sometimes someone gets away with it. The more random the perp, the less likely they can solve the crime----but they have DNA--they just don't have a name to put with it.

 

[narlacat]

If JBR hadn't been murdered, but had been taken out of the house, and then left somewhere unharmed, the note would have been a bad joke, and the whole plan perhaps chalked up to some punks wanting attention. Who has a stun gun and bat? Doesn't point to an older perp, IMO. Who would write a nonsense kidnapping note copied from movie lines and themes? I tend to think there were two----one that was duped into writing the note--the other a much darker personality. A lot of drugs flowed into Boulder......a mind on drugs such as meth might explain the unexplainable. Meth users can fly into rages, and have a sense of omnipotence while high.

Larry Posner once said not all murders are solved and sometimes someone gets away with it. The more random the perp, the less likely they can solve the crime----but they have DNA--they just don't have a name to put with it.

The more people there were, the more chance of getting caught. The Ramsey's house, in their own words, was rambling, the intruder would had to have been familiar with the lay out of the house, maybe someone they knew....
But two people??
Surely one of the three people in the house that night would have heard something.

 

[Zman]

I'm a fence-sitter; I have no particular theory even though I've been here since 2000. But...here's some thoughts, if we say that Patsy wrote the note:

1. Perhaps she or John deposited the Christmas bonus in the bank. She/and or John knew that amount of money could be easily accessed w/in a matter of minutes. Why would this be important as opposed to requesting one million dollars? What would the significance be of them being able to get their hands on $118,000 quickly? John never actually left to get the money. Why or why not?

<or>

2. The use of the $118,000 amount would make authorities think the "kidnapper" were someone who had inside knowledge thru AG. If a kidnapper requested such an odd amount, surely there would be a reason for it; hence, it would be someone who worked at AG or had intimate knowledge of AG and John's bonus.

<or>

3. The $118K amount was chosen simply because the check stub was in the house and it would appear to authorities that an intruder had seen the stub and knew that more than likely the Ramseys had at least that much available money.

I believe the money was at the house, brought to the house by by a banker friend of JR's.

The RN is very personal and full of clues left for JR.

I think JBR was killed as a message to JR.

I also still think the RN may/could have been real.

It could just be that once the cops were called the perpetrator/s folded their plan.

I would bet the perpetrator/s were shocked that the police did not find the body.

Although I can't explain how they would be sure no one would look in that room.

Unless someone in that house was keeping people out of that room. FW perhaps?

 

[Eagle1]

" I tend to think there were two----one that was duped into writing the note--the other a much darker personality. A lot of drugs flowed into Boulder......a mind on drugs such as meth might explain the unexplainable. Meth users can fly into rages, and have a sense of omnipotence while high. " QUOTE]

Good idea, I think.

Just last night on Court TV, a young woman user and a lover, both of whom worked in the medical examiner's ofc and knew drugs, murdered her young husband. She's been such a brilliant child, but a picture of her when using meth looked something like that guy in the Horowitz case in the news.

Another thing, on their Forensic Friday show, I believe it was, they said only a killer would cover a murdered victim, and try to cover the face, trying to hide the evil deed from himself and others. In this case an accomplice had dumped a body, in the open, not covered, so they knew there were two people. They didn't say if someone close, a family member, would do the covering, and in JBR's case, put oversize panties on her, staged evidence pointing to the family, etc.

My personal opinion, parents wouldn't cover her and just leave her there, and you know they didn't do the staging pointing to themselves.

Editing to add that "118" is a part of too many coincidences to be unplanned, so, would someone on meth be able to do that? Like the ad agency person who planned the Ditech commercial with the losing competitor seeing the word Ditech everywhere, even on the eyechart? (And I know, of course, that he was just imagining it was there, but some creative ad person thought of it, of creating coincidences. I don't remember if he was seeing "Ditech" in a lot of other places too. Point is, there could be as many as they had time for.) Who would make a bonus check for such an unusual amount unless it was a reminder of SOMETHING, in this case the Psalm, and it was also happening in the movie In Cold Blood?

How would so many movie makers know of such a Psalm? It's a safe bet that none of them are religious. Who would have pointed it out to them and why? A meth user gradually developing an evil plan?

 

[Rupert]

1:18 was also the time on the clock when Perry was hung, from "In Cold Blood."

This just seems too much of a coincidence with 1:18 as also the time the clock struck in the movie "Nick of Time". Again, the movie was played at the Whites that night, according to guest Bill Cox.

Maybe the answer is here and it has something to do with the Kali business.

 

[Eagle1]

"... I remember someone bringing up the time Perry was hung. Some think that movie was an inspiration. They showed them buying cord, etc. in a hardware store, and they used a flashlight while they prowled around the house. Also, the reason they chose their victims was because they thought there was a safe in the house loaded with money. The cellar room in the Ramsey house had a floor safe in it. The second made for TV movie was released around Thanksgiving of l996.

Lou Smit said there was evidence not made public. Maybe they did manage to keep a few things quiet. One reason might be because it pointed to an intruder and away from a Ramsey. At one time Pam had said there were things missing from the house---no detail, just that items were missing. There might have been something strange about the French doors in JBR's room.

There was a santa claus suit taken in as evidence---there must have been something about it that caught someone's attention when they searched the house. Afterall, the basement supposedly had a lot of stuff in it--why take the santa suit? The Ramseys did own a Santa suit.

Cigarette butts were taken in along with leaves. What's the odds that if the perp was a smoker, he didn't smoke while prowling around the house outside? Nothing ever reported if they were tested for DNA."

The only thing I can maybe contribute in re the above quote is about the french doors to JonBenet's balcony. ST said there was frost on the floor of the balcony, no snow, since I guess it was a covered balcony (?) and no footprints. It had not been disturbed.

 

[Maikai]

The Ramsey's house was near the University..near an area a lot of transients hung out...and in an area that was declining and crimes were increasing--primarily because of drug use. Meth is one drug that can be highly addicting just from a few uses. It creates a high where the person thinks they can do anything, and when coming down from it, the person can fly into rages. IMO, the crime has all the markings of someone on drugs, out to make a quit buck.

I think a stun gun was used. Who carries around a stun gun for illegal uses? Druggies and punks out to commit crimes. Bats and stun guns were becoming the weapons of choice in the Denver area by the younger criminal element.

This crime could have been a twist on a burglary motive, with the sexual assault part of the rage the perp seemed to exhibit when something went wrong.

 

[Maikai]

Article in Daily Camera about increasing crimes and drug use in the University Hill area. The Ramseys did not live in a gated community---they lived in an area of homeowners, transients, and students:


DAILY CAMERA
PATROLS TARGET HEROIN DEALERS< POLICE TRY TO CUT OFF INCREASE IN BOULDER
Tuesday, February 20, 1996
Section: TODAY
Edition: SECOND
Page: 1B
By SARAH K. DURAN
Camera Staff Writer


Boulder police are putting extra patrols on University Hill in hopes of discouraging heroin dealing after recent complaints by business owners.

The result: three arrests so far this year.


"We do this periodically," Boulder police Sgt. Bob Whitson said. "Last year, people were complaining about drug dealing on the Mall, then Central Park. It goes back and forth on these street-level dealers."
Street sales are just one of the heroin-related problems the department has seen on the increase in the past few years. Other concerns are drug overdoses and thefts committed by addicts to pay for their habit.

Part of the problem, officials say, is the increase in quality and lower prices.

Heroin, which is typically injected into the bloodstream, depresses the central nervous system, slowing the heart rate and breathing. In overdose situations, heroin can cause respiratory failure.

In the 1960s, heroin was considered a low-class drug, said Carl Hinds, spokesman for the federal Drug Enforcement Administration, Rocky Mountain division. It was relatively impure - about 5 percent to 10 percent in the 1970s - and so most users injected heroin into their systems with needles.

Over the years the purity has improved, allowing users to smoke it. In 1994, purity levels were between 10 percent and 64 percent.

"That was kind of a watershed," Hinds said. "The higher purity allows it to be smoked, therefore there are some people who might try it who otherwise are afraid of the needle experience."

One way police monitor heroin use is through drug overdoses - fatal and otherwise. Last year, two people died of heroin overdoses and two more died mixing heroin with other drugs. Three of those deaths were in Boulder and one was in Lafayette. So far this year, there has been one heroin-related suicide in Boulder, Whitson said.

The number of heroin-related deaths in Boulder County has fluctuated the last three years. There was one in 1994 and three in 1993 - a year that saw six overdoses in a six-week period at the end of the year.

Although police have been targeting the University Hill area, Whitson said, most heroin users go to Denver to buy the drug. Those who have sold in the Boulder area are typically small-time dealers who sell mostly to friends or acquaintances.

"It's not like they were randomly opening their doors for business," Whitson said. "Most everyone goes to Denver or has a friend who picks it up."

The department also has heard that a few drug dealers are trying to set up shop in Boulder, another reason police are putting extra patrols in the University Hill area.

Last year, police arrested about 25 to 30 people on heroin-related charges, Whitson said.

Another concern is the effect of drug habits on crime. Burglaries rose 17 percent in 1995, and detectives blame part of that increase on drug-related crimes. For instance, Brian Knudsen, who confessed to 92 burglaries last year, told police he had a heroin habit.

"Drugs and burglaries usually go together somehow," Boulder police Detective Michael Everett said. "I am experiencing more people saying they are involved more in heroin and cocaine."

Countywide, heroin is less common, but still on the rise.

The Boulder County Sheriff's Department responded last month to a heroin overdose victim who survived after he was taken to a hospital. But those cases are rare, said Deputy Dan Barber.

"In the past, it has not been as common a drug for us," he said. "It's not that common of a drug case as is marijuana, cocaine or methamphetamine. In the recent past, we are aware of more cases, which is unusual for us."

 

[narlacat]

The Ramsey's house was near the University..near an area a lot of transients hung out...and in an area that was declining and crimes were increasing--primarily because of drug use. Meth is one drug that can be highly addicting just from a few uses. It creates a high where the person thinks they can do anything, and when coming down from it, the person can fly into rages. IMO, the crime has all the markings of someone on drugs, out to make a quit buck.

I think a stun gun was used. Who carries around a stun gun for illegal uses? Druggies and punks out to commit crimes. Bats and stun guns were becoming the weapons of choice in the Denver area by the younger criminal element.

This crime could have been a twist on a burglary motive, with the sexual assault part of the rage the perp seemed to exhibit when something went wrong.

How did this drug addict transient come to know so much about the Ramsey's?
You wouldn't think John and Patsy hung out with types like that and you wouldn't think types like that attend church or social functions that the Ramsey's were likely to attend.
How did their paths come to cross?

 

[Maikai]

How did this drug addict transient come to know so much about the Ramsey's?
You wouldn't think John and Patsy hung out with types like that and you wouldn't think types like that attend church or social functions that the Ramsey's were likely to attend.
How did their paths come to cross?

For one, the note doesn't indicate that the perp knew a lot about the Ramseys. JonBenet was never mentioned by name.........the "bussiness" not specifically mentioned. An even somewhat random perp could have gleaned the southern common sense remark from the article that appeared in the paper on the 21st. Someone cruising the paper for burglary victims.

It could be the son of someone the Ramseys ran across. Access had grown very rapidly and was the largest employer on Pearl Street, with hundreds of employees. Access was being expanded---lots of construction workers. John Ramsey had an interest in Pasta Jays, with a new location on Pearl Street being remodelled. Then you have various people that may have worked in the Ramsey house. There's acquantices of JAR. The family came across a lot of people and I think the article in the paper on the 2lst was a trigger. The Ramseys had a listed telephone and address.

 

[Eagle1]

I tried some search words, "Businesses' Foreign Factions" and there were nearly 200,000 "results", including a lot about TERRORISM, too much to start reading, actually. I'm just trying to find out all the possible meanings of the word faction, to find out whether businesses have them. What other groups, besides businesses might have factions, and/or foreign factions?

Lies of all kinds often contain a grain of truth, or the liar wouldn't even have thought of the lie, so, what could it be in this case? Beheading really is a terrorist term. A few were beheaded in Iraq, correct?

I believe there was once a discussion in the public forums at Jameson's about some of the terrorists studying at the University in Boulder, which doesn't necessarily mean they themselves would dare go into an American home, nor is this their typical method of killing. Just maybe a lot of people around Boulder knew about that and it gave someone the idea for the ransom note.

 

[Wuschel]

Can anyone explain to me what the abbreviation T.o.D. means?

"Tod" is, by the way, the german word for "death". Spooky, but irrelevant to the case in my opinion.

Wuschel

 

[Moab]

ToD = Time of Death

 

[Eagle1]

That's another coincidence, a small one, that our abbreviation for time of death spells a German word for death, isn't it?