17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

Discussion in 'George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion' started by beach, Mar 26, 2012.

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  1. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please continue here.

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    beach

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166660"]Thread #4[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166793"]Thread #5[/ame]
     
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  3. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow Member

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    we will never know who struck the first blow. Mr Zimmerman stalked and accosted Mr Martin, it is not surprising to me if Mr Martin felt fear at Mr Zimmerman's actions, especially with the stranger who was following him all of the sudden approaching him on foot. That poor young man must've been fighting for his life, sadly he lost his life. Mr Zimmerman had the choice to stay in his car and await the LE he had called on this innocent stanger, Mr Martin didn't have that choice. I would have fought for my life when accosted by a stranger, wouldn't you?
    brought this over from last threazd because I am interested in many ideas on it. Why is it self defense for Mr Zimmerman to shoot and kill, but not self defense for Mr Martin to fight back against a stranger who has been following him and accosted him?
     
  4. Fishee

    Fishee New Member

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    Seems simple to me:

    Stand your Ground
    Neighborhood Watch
    Self Defense

    All exactly the opposite of what Mr. Zimmerman was doing figuratively and physically.

    How can "self-defense" be argued when GZ was on the offense and in active pursuit?
     
  5. Horace Finklestein

    Horace Finklestein New Member

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    I think TM could have run away if he wanted to. I don't think GZ started the fight, that wouldn't make sense considering he had a gun...why risk it? His account makes the most sense, that TM jumped him.
     
  6. Dr.Fessel

    Dr.Fessel New Member

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    I wonder if Zimmerman was wearing a hoodie?
     
  7. gxm

    gxm New Member

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    I completely agree that GZ should have stayed in his car. I think (only speculation) that he did frighten TM which is a perfectly normal response to someone following you. Running away (or walking fast) and hiding under porches could easily be the behavior of a scared, unarmed kid who is being followed by an adult. That said, it looks like the evidence supports GZ's story. And, unfortunately, the law allows that he could legally shot an innocent 17-year old to death. And, IMO, that's unbelievable and unjust.

    However, one part of GZ's story doesn't add up. And I'm relying on recollection so I may have it wrong. But he claimed that when he got out of his car to check the street sign (to see what street he was on), TM jumped him. But someone put up a satellite map yesterday and it appears that TM was shot behind the townhouses, not on the street. So how did GZ get from the street (street signs are usually on street corners, not behind townhouses) to behind the townhomes? It doesn't add up, unless TM jumped him and then ran and GZ followed.

    If anyone has newer information, or if my information is inaccurate, any clarification is welcome.
     
  8. rossva

    rossva George Zimmerman: Innocent until proven guilty.

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  9. Dr.Fessel

    Dr.Fessel New Member

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    I still can't understand why the cops did not ask Zimmerman to submit to an alcohol or blood test. They heard his words slurring on that 911 tape.
     
  10. Wise Old Owl

    Wise Old Owl Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL

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    If there was an altercation - which we all know from the witnesses. GZ and Trayvon were in close physical contact. Where was GZ when he shot? If still in such close physical contact than GZ would have had spatter on him. That spatter would go a very long way at figuring out who was what, where and how close when the shot was fired.

    Yet, SPD thought nothing of it. No mention of GZ shirt in the "partial" report we have. No mention of taking GZ's shirt into evidence (although we do have the gun taken as evidence). Why wouldn't they do that? Certainly it would be quite obvious that GZ had blood all over his shirt. What did he tell LE? Its was from his nose? And probably some was - but that's for the forensics lab to investigate.

    Then there's this that I'm also wondering. Where is the slug and the casing? Was the bullet retrieved from Trayvon? If not, and it was a through and through shot - then did LE go out and find where it ended up? I don't know much about guns - so I don't know if a tek 9 will expell a casing afterward - but it they do - then did LE find it? That would tell them where GZ was standing when he fired and would be important info - if that type of gun does that.

    Also, we know nothing about Trayvon's body or clothes. Did he have evidence on his knuckles that he could have punched GZ? Maybe even GZ's blood on his hand from punching? If he was truly attacking him - punching several times - I'm sure there would be evidence of that on his hands.

    I just wish they would release a little bit - something. With all this silence, it tells me they don't have anything to back up with they did.


    JVM on HLN right now - with the special prosecutor.



    JMHO
     
  11. thefragile7393

    thefragile7393 Chronically sleep deprived

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    If this is what happened, unfortunately you could very well be right. There is the 911 tapes that at least show more of the whole story (more, NOT all) and it at least shows GZ having the provoking aggressor behavior first...behavior that would not have happened had GZ just listened to dispatch. It's not much to build on but an aggressive enough prosecutor (should this go to trial ever) could definitely build on that and hunt for more evidence. Will it happen? Hard to say. At least that's what i see.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
     
  12. w1df10wr

    w1df10wr New Member

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    http://marinadedave.com/ - there is a picture with drawing of where GZ's pick up was and where the shooting took place - http://transferstation.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/street-view-overhead1.jpg - imo, TM did not jump GZ near his vehicle.
     
  13. Wise Old Owl

    Wise Old Owl Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL

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    oooooo - This new prosecutor was asked about the Grand Jury and will we have to wait for an arrest until then? She said that Wolfinger was the prosecutor that ordered the Grand Jury and that her and her prosecutors are not held to that Grand Jury and that she has never convened a Grand Jury for a homicide case. A Grand Jury is something she will have to look at and ask for, if she needs it.

    She does not know where GZ is right now.




    JMHO
     
  14. daisy7

    daisy7 Retired WS Staff

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    With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

    Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

    In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

    Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

    (snip)

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
     
  15. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow Member

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    by that reasoning he would've stayed in his vehicle and waited for LE to arrive.

    By getting out of his car he showed me he wanted to be the big man when LE arrived, maybe standing over a cowering bad guy. Mr Zimmerman might've wanted to show LE that he was thier equal by apprehending Mr Martin. This would've backfired badly if Mr Martin tried to defend himself. When Mr Martin refused to blindly obey and/or cower properly Mr Zimmerman lost control and in the ensuing fight lose his reason as well. In frustration and anger at Mr Martin's lack of respect for and lack of recognition of Mr Zimmermna's self-assumed authority, Mr Zimmerman shot him.

    the above is my opinion of what happened.
     
  16. mikeysmommom

    mikeysmommom "A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you

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  17. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow Member

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    Mr Zimmerman's story I assume. The only person who can give the other side was killed by the person who gave that version. I take it with a great big grain of salt.
     
  18. Anadarko

    Anadarko New Member

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    It was a Kel Tec PF9, and yes, it does expel the empty casing.

    Since there has been no autopsy report, we don't know if the bullet went through or not. So I am just going to give MOO. If GZ was close enough that he was in a physical altercation with TM, I'm going to guess he was within 10 feet when he shot him. Since TM was over 6 ft. and 140 lbs, I'm guessing he was very thin. That bullet more than likely went completely through, and who knows where it ended up.

    Strictly my opinion on what I have learned about guns over the years.
     
  19. mikeysmommom

    mikeysmommom "A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you

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    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

    The police have witnesses from that night IMO Police believe the witnesses who spoke up that night and saw what happened.
     
  20. Wise Old Owl

    Wise Old Owl Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL

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    Lots of new and interesting details in this new article that Daisy posted from the Orlando Sentinel.

    Here's a few that caught me:

    Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

    Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community

    Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

    Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

    Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

    Zimmerman began yelling for help.

    Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.


    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
     
  21. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that I believe Trayvon Jumped George period, but I appreciate the drawing showing the location of the pickup and the subsequent shooting.

    Based on that pic and the locations depicted thereon, I do not see how George was checking a street sign if the scuffle and shooting occurred where it seems to have.

    I think it more likely that George got out of his vehicle, followed Trayvon on foot to the area near the eventual shooting and a confrontation ensued. I believe Trayvon left the street, in part, to elude the strange man following him in a pickup and when George then got out of his vehicle and began following him on foot, I believe Trayvon got very concerned. I think George took Trayvon's "elusive" behavior as further "evidence" that this [insert curse word beginning with A that GZ used in call to LE] was up to no good.

    I think George then attempted to detain Trayvon. I do not think George attempted to identify himself as a concerned neighbor and neighborhood watch captain.

    Do we know where the home Trayvon was visiting is located in relation to the area of the shooting? I think he was trying to get back to the house as quickly as possible in order to evade the strange man following him but I think those behaviors were completely misconstrued by hyper vigilant George.
     
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