17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[m00c0w]

Are people really calling this a brutal racist cold blooded killing? I mean anyone of note? Of course there are wackos on either side -- but who is calling him a cold-blooded killer? And GZ does not have to be a racist to be a racial profiler. What the family is saying is they want justice, they want an investigation, an arrest -- let a jury decide.

BBM

A few here certainly have.

 

[iluvmua]

UMMM Trayvon didn't have a gun and George did? George was going for the gun and shot Trayvon dead?


I love you bunches Katydid, but a boy was shot dead by a man who had every means of escape. GZ did NOT need to follow this boy. He didn't. :truce:

And TM had every means to run back to his house if he choose too.

 

[annalia]

Then why did they say this:

Ben Crump, an attorney for Martin's parents, told the panel that the family was convinced Martin was targeted for special attention because of his race, arguing that tougher laws against profiling might have averted the shooting.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mily-alleges-racial-profiling-before-congress

I don't think they want an investigation at all, I think they want GZ to be arrested immediately without an investigation.

They're absolutely right. Their son was profiled because of his race. And wrongfully so. Their son was deemed up to no good because black kids had committed burglaries, no matter how you, ( the general you, not you personally ) slice it, or try to excuse it or dance around it, it's profiling. And a kid with his whole life ahead of him is now dead because of it.

The only difference may be, is who thinks that type of profiling is ok to do and who doesn't.

JMHO

 

[songline]

Unfortunately the only information we can confirm are GZ's own words on the 911 call-he saw a kid walking around and looking around and that something was not right with him.
What we don't know is if what he saw is what any of us may see. What did he use as the basis of his judgment? What is the yardstick for suspicious behavior that he uses?Judging him (which we must also do in this case) or using his own previous police calls as our yardstick it may be reasonable to see the picture being painted of a man that MAY see innocent things as a potential problems, when they really are not. he is watching for things, IMO, that may or may not be there in an effort to keep order in the community. While I applaud his basic intention of keeping things safe in his community-this is a case in point where sometimes that very intervention and swinging the pendulum to the other extreme of reporting everything can have devastating consequences when not handled by the proper authorities.

the irony is that it is his own watchfulness and almost paranoid behavior (IMO)ultimately caused order to be disturbed in a major way. I would rather that 5 houses were robbed than one Trayvon Martin were killed.

It may be his duty to report what he deems to be suspicious behavior but it is not his duty to try and stop it. he should have called, reported and gotten in his car and gone home.

I Agree,
That is why I call him overzealous,
and while that is annoying it is not illegal.
But the police leaves too many questions...
When one is dead you investigate.
You can’t take one man’s word for it.

I think it will be a tough case.
Hate that law it is an open coral for mad men.

 

[katydid23]

Are people really calling this a brutal racist cold blooded killing? I mean anyone of note? Of course there are wackos on either side -- but who is calling him a cold-blooded killer? And GZ does not have to be a racist to be a racial profiler. What the family is saying is they want justice, they want an investigation, an arrest -- let a jury decide.

There are people here saying that, imo. Saying he was on a mission to kill TM. And people that are considered leaders of the black community have said he was 'hunted' down and killed. So I do think he is being painted as such. They are comparing TM to Emmet Till.

 

[songline]

And TM had every means to run back to his house if he choose too.

I think he could have made a dash home much sooner,
he was 6'3" That is LONG LEGS he could have lost GZ long ago.

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[annalia]

And TM had every means to run back to his house if he choose too.

In other words, he had no right to walk home? It's his fault if he chose to walk at 7PM? Someone decided to take it upon themselves to follow him, but it's his fault for not getting away fast enough?

JMHO

 

[stmarysmead]

http://www.the33tv.com/news/wpix-tryvon-foster-fact-or-fiction,0,7571524.story

This article claims an eye witness TOLD A REPORTER that GZ was yelling for help and ne told him that he had called 911.

Question : is it true that TM was with his younger brother AGE 13...buying skittles for him? Weren't they just watching TV together and planned to do so again? If the house was so close, was the brother a witness? Had he left the home and not waited for his brother? Did he also return late enough to see nothing?
Did he tell anyone that his brother went to the store and never came back? TM knew no one there in that area...so where has the family said they thought he was all night?

I have not read anything on this.

 

[gxm]

But songline we have to rewind farther than that. How and why was this situation created?
A private citizen arming himself and driving the neighborhood looking for criminal activity is most likely not going to have a good ending. Trayvon good or Trayvon bad makes no difference. THIS situation was created by George Zimmerman and that's the problem I have.

It may have been created by GZ, but it was not illegally created. Apparently, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to follow another citizen in public, as long as the surveillance doesn't break the public/private boundary.

 

[JBean]

It is not his job but people complain all the time that bystanders don't interfere when they see something. Of course Zimmerman was wrong and Trayvon was not involved in any crimes. But if a bystander was not wrong people wouldn't complain if that bystander got involved.

not sure I am following that but, his interference should have consisted of calling LE.
I'll bet if you ask any police officer what you should do if you are pretty sure someone you see on the street is about to commit a crime,because he is walking in a suspicious manner, not one would advise you follow him with a gun.

My point is mainly that if we peel away all the layers and get down to the basic elements of this case,it was all preventable- 100%.

 

[songline]

Are people really calling this a brutal racist cold blooded killing? I mean anyone of note? Of course there are wackos on either side -- but who is calling him a cold-blooded killer? And GZ does not have to be a racist to be a racial profiler. What the family is saying is they want justice, they want an investigation, an arrest -- let a jury decide.

MARTIN's attorney - every chance he gets.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.the33tv.com/news/wpix-tryvon-foster-fact-or-fiction,0,7571524.story

This article claims an eye witness TOLD A REPORTER that GZ was yelling for help and ne told him that he had called 911.

Question : is it true that TM was with his younger brother AGE 13...buying skittles for him? Weren't they just watching TV together and planned to do so again? If the house was so close, was the brother a witness? Had he left the home and not waited for his brother? Did he also return late enough to see nothing?
Did he tell anyone that his brother went to the store and never came back? TM knew no one there in that area...so where has the family said they thought he was all night?

I have not read anything on this.

His father believed Trayvon went to the movies with cousin.

 

[OneLove]

Including his son. He said he called Trayvon's phone a couple of times and went to bed. Didn't the other boy tell his dad Trayvon just went to the store and was supposed to be back? Was the other boy scared when he didn't return? Wouldn't one think the boy would call Tracy or his mom, Tracy's girlfriend, and tell them Trayvon had not returned? Am I to believe the other boy (not sure how old he is), did not hear anything? Sirens? Nothing? When Tracy got home, and Trayvon had been gone four hours - why didn't he go looking for his child? Maybe run up to the 7-11 and ask if they'd seen him?

If my child said they were going to the store and would be right back, and I couldn't reach her on the phone, even at 27 years old, I would be in panic mode. I know I'd call the cousin if I thought he was with him. I can't completely buy all that's been told to us about that night, after Trayvon was killed, because the story Tracy first told, has changed. This should not be construed, in any way, that I blame the father for Trayvon's death, because that would be ludicrous. This is to say I don't think Tracy is being straightforward about where Trayvon was supposed to be that evening.


That's just it, there was no other evidence. It stands to reason pictures were taken, but I wouldn't expect those to be on the initial police report. They are partial anyway, so who knows what else was on them.


They may not have believed it was suicide? They probably took fingerprints, blood spatter evidence, etc. JMO In the case of GZ & Trayvon, it was clear who shot whom.


Does LE not have it?

SO many assumptions here. The first that pops out is that maybe you've not had kids that play video games? Even my 58 year old husband does, lol, and he wears headphones and is VERY engaged and talking to other participants while playing. He would not hear a siren going off IN THE HOUSE, lol. I know he would not hear one a distance away. Also, when people are playing, they are so intensely focused that they might not even be aware of someone shot and bleeding on the floor in front of them for a few minutes. It's a neurological thing having to do with intense focus.

But let's say Trayvon's soon to be step-brother wasn't even playing video games. Maybe it was just a tv show. Maybe it was music on his headphones. Maybe it was a phone conversation with a friend. All these could prevent him from being aware of a distant siren. By the way, do we know if there actually WAS a siren, how long it went off?

Secondly, as a mother and a GOOD watchful mother, I would not have panickednif I arrived home and my teenage son was not there, ESPECIALLY if I thought he was at the movies with his cousin. ESPECIALLY if the cousin was 20 years of age.

Thirdly, if my son did not return a call from me instantly, I would respectfully give him a decent period of time in which to return my call. He is neither my prisoner nor my slave. And if I thought he were at the movies with an older responsible person, I probably wouldn't hesitate to turn in for the night after 11:00 pm. At my house, i would know when they come in after movie is over These days, if something bad happens, you get a call. It's easy. Mostly, it might be " I'm late, didn't want to worry you", but there ARE the dreaded "I'm sorry to have to inform you" calls. When kids carry cell phones and everyone they're with carries a cellphone, there is no excuse to not get a call. Shame on the Sanford police department, horrible lapse of decency. ~Now, this is all for a kid the age of Trayvon. If my son was, did you say 27?, and I called him checking on his every move or called him panicked because he didn't return home the minute I thought he should, he would have been scheduling appointments for me with the psychiatrist. AND he would have moved himself out of the house and set appropriate boundaries for me so fast it would have made my head spin.

And lastly, what the hello does any of this have to do with Trayvon's killing ANYWAY?? What ANYONE other than Zimmerman and Trayvon did in those few moments have NO bearing on what happened. Bringing this up just contributes to a higher and deeper pile of nasty smelling BIAS and is the stuff that maddens people to the verge of violence. It is an old worn out trick when one has little other defense than to paint the victim (and his parents? stepbrother? Gf?) as somehow having been at fault for the crime. It's definitely what lynching in the old south was about. It's sad to see it still going on.

 

[annalia]

Exactly. I am worried that GZ will be hastily railroaded. And that, due to lack of substantial evidence, will be found NG.

Mob rule = justice for no one.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Oh I'm sorry, I misread what you were saying.

I though you meant that he would be found guilty and unfairly so.

I apologize.

 

[jjenny]

not sure I am following that but, his interference should have consisted of calling LE.
I'll bet if you ask any police officer what you should do if you are pretty sure someone you see on the street is about to commit a crime,because he is walking in a suspicious manner, not one would advise you follow him with a gun.

My point is mainly that if we peel away all the layers and get down to the basic elements of this case,it was all preventable- 100%.

Police will not advise anyone to follow, or interfere if they see something, but people constantly complain how bystanders just don't care and don't interfere.

 

[JBean]

It may have been created by GZ, but it was not illegally created. Apparently, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to follow another citizen in public, as long as the surveillance doesn't break the public/private boundary.

Oh i concur and did not even mean to imply that it was illegal if that is how it came across. Generally,there is no law against using really bad judgment.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

There is a post I was just talking to hubby about and it was about Trayvon's possessions which were skittles, iced tea, $22, iiirc there was no mention of phone.

So what happened to TM's phone?

The police have it and refuse to give it to the parents.

 

[katydid23]

UMMM Trayvon didn't have a gun and George did? George was going for the gun and shot Trayvon dead?


I love you bunches Katydid, but a boy was shot dead by a man who had every means of escape. GZ did NOT need to follow this boy. He didn't. :truce:

I totally agree that he didn't need to and SHOULD NOT have followed him. And I think he should have been arrested and charged with manslaughter because of that stupid negligent decision.

 

[songline]

Ok, So If TM first hit GZ then under the SYG law if he felt his life was in danger or anything he would be able to shoot him?

I'm confused

GZ claims that TM was after his gun.
GZ sais he had to use Self Defense.

since it happened on the ground I imagine they fell from
a scuffle and both were rolling around going for the gun.

 

[w1df10wr]

According to the family attorney, police had no interest in even looking at the phone.

?

Page 1 of this article has the walk thru interview with TM's dad. Toward the end of the 2nd page...

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...e-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php?page=2

~"Unanswered questions remain
The chain of events both before and after Trayvon's death leave numerous unanswered questions.
Did police retrieve Trayvon's cell phone at the scene of the shooting, and if so, why didn't they didn't use it to try to identify him by calling some of the numbers, one of which would have appeared as a call taking place at the same time as the incident? Why wouldn't they scroll through the contacts, looking for "mom" or "dad"?
That phone hasn't been seen since. The family says police never gave it to them. Trayvon's father located his girlfriend by retrieving his son's call logs online." ~

Article is from 3/23. Is that outdated info that hasn't been updated?