17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

Discussion in 'George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion' started by imamaze, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. imamaze

    imamaze Former Member

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    Please continue here.
    Remember the rules: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159[/ame]
    Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.
    Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
    Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.
    Please PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.
    And finally, PLEASE address one another respectfully. Last reminder.

    We will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.
    We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.
    Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).


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    Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.
    I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:
    At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.
    Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information
    Hope that helps clear this up.
    Please bump as needed.

    Just a reminder:
    WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
    __________________

     
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  3. Peliman

    Peliman New Member

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    Reposting

    Good question, made me look it up for the state of Fla.

    Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

    A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

    Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
    Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
    Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

    Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

    Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

    A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.

    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html
     
  4. Horace Finklestein

    Horace Finklestein New Member

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    Still not understanding how going to the store after dinner says anything about his intentions or character. I hope this kind of thinking is not present in the grand jury proceedings.
     
  5. Gin

    Gin Share a smile

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    JMO--I think the whole grocery story is a red herring. The Z's et all don't want to state GZ was out on one of his regular armed volunteer security guard rounds. (You can't be neighborhood watch while packing a 9mm)

    Going to buy groceries "sounds" innocent.....
    As always, YMMV
     
  6. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    GZ claims he was on his way to Target and spotted TM on his way out by the clubhouse. However, GZ's father claims TM was cutting through the houses and that is why GZ was suspicious. GZ lives at the other end of the street and would not have been able to see TM cutting through if it happened the way GZ claims. But, FT's house is further up the road where FT could have seen TM using the cut through. So, did he call GZ and GZ hot-footed it out to his car to go check TM out????? That is why there is a question about Target, IMO. Two different versions of how GZ first noticed TM as being suspicious. jmo
     
  7. LiveLaughLuv

    LiveLaughLuv New Member

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    BBM

    This is what I was trying to figure out...you can meet force with force..

    but is fist to guns meeting force with force? As I stated earlier, this was unbalanced from the start with GZ having a loaded gun to TM's fists...if he did beat GZ..but I keep going back to the funeral director who saw no trace of TM being in a fistfight...I wonder what the autopsy will show...
     
  8. Peliman

    Peliman New Member

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    I think the defense that will be presented is this.

    Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

    JMO of course.
     
  9. TonyGatto

    TonyGatto New Member

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    It is a red herring. The fact is that GZ shot and killed TM. GZ tried to hold him for police and when TM defended himself, GZ pulled the trigger, IMO.
     
  10. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    I have thought that GZ saw TM on his way of the community on his way to target. The pool house which is just inside the main entrance on the left. And that is why he was in a vehicle.
     
  11. Marshmallow

    Marshmallow New Member

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    I think Mr Martin was acting in selfdefense, that negates Mr Zimmerman's excuse of selfdefense. Mr Zimmerman accosted Mr Martin, that cannot be selfdefense.
     
  12. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I also do not think GZ was ever appointed as a courtesy officer by the HOA. At the very least owners and residents would have been aware of who he was and what his function was in order for them to cooperate. The only information circulated was by LE that if residents had questions about the NWP they could contact GZ. That was not giving GZ the authority for anything other than administrative contacts. GZ, however, obviously took it to the max using that as an excuse to promote himself to a position of authority.

    If RZ knew his son had this arrangement he would have certainly mentioned it by now. It appears GZ has had this obsession for a long time. Obviously if GZ felt so unsafe in this community, and he was only leasing his home, he should have moved out to a safer community......unless, he enjoyed his role as self-appointed watchman. jmo
     
  13. Peliman

    Peliman New Member

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    Define accosted for me please.
     
  14. mfcmom

    mfcmom New Member

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    I fear for the citizens of Sanford if he is not at least taken into protective custody if not charged, reading some of the racist comments on Orlando papers frightens me, they are asking residents to "lock and load". Whatever happens this is not going to be good. We need to stress and encourage calm and order. He needs to be charged and this needs to be determined in a court of law, not on the streets or here. JMO
     
  15. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    I for one do not think that GZ's atty will allow GZ to say he was "on duty"
    I am thinking that GZ did this on his own time.
     
  16. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    Correct. That is when GZ called dispatch and said there was a suspicious person at the clubhouse which is right inside the front gate. However, RZ claims his son spotted TM cutting through the houses and from Oregon Avenue the only cut through would be right at the curve of the road on Retreat View Circle. If you are looking down at the map it would be to your far left. The clubhouse is in the center portion of Retreat View Circle as you enter the gate. If GZ were off to the store and reached the clubhouse in time to see TM how would be know TM cut through the houses???? It's about the same distance to the cut through on Twin Tree which appears to be a two plus minute walk. jmo
     
  17. Adrienne37

    Adrienne37 Former Member

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    There is supposed to be no "ON DUTY" for Zimmerman. He was not supposed to be making rounds and he certainly wasn't supposed to be stalking a kid through the neighborhood while packing a 9 mm loaded weapon. All of this about him being on duty, making his rounds, etc., etc., etc. is going to be Zimmerman's downfall and thankfully we have many, many, many reports thanks to Zimmerman's friends and family that he was doing the complete opposite of what he was supposed to be doing and this is exactly the reason the story about going to buy milk suddenly became going to buy groceries, etc. Zimmerman himself has sunk his own ship.



    ~Jmo~
     
  18. Footwarrior

    Footwarrior New Member

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    Was George Zimmerman released before the identity of Trayvon Martin was known?
     
  19. suspicious1

    suspicious1 New Member

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    Maybe that's why FT felt the need to defend GZ the way he does. What if this all started with him calling GZ to report the suspicious Trayvon walking through the bldgs. Maybe they know this information may come out and needed another reason forGZ to be out. The Zimmerman crew are refuting that now.....claiming he was out to get groceries.

    Just a thought.
     
  20. TonyGatto

    TonyGatto New Member

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    By all accounts yes. GZ was released in the 3am hour. Police confirmed TM's identity through his dad later in the morning, I believe in the 8am hour. What are you thinking?
     
  21. Phoenixfla

    Phoenixfla New Member

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    Saw this interesting article:

    Zimmerman's family: George handed out fliers, protesting police coddling of white suspect

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...sherman-ware-justin-collison-robert-zimmerman

    From the article:
    "Ironically, Tonetta Foster, the sister of Sherman Ware, the man punched by Collison, took part in a Trayvon rally March 19 at the Seminole Criminal courthouse at which protesters called for Zimmerman's arrest.

    "I stand for justice for Trayvon, for Sherman Ware," she said.

    A lawyer for Trayvon's family, Natalie Jackson, represented Ware. She said she did not believe Zimmerman handed out any fliers. She called the family's account "race baiting".


    Isnt that sad. Just goes to show that no good deed goes unpunished.
     
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