17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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Phoenixfla

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O'Mara never asked him if it was Zimmerman's just if he had any insight into it.

insight [ˈɪnˌsaɪt]
n
1. the ability to perceive clearly or deeply; penetration


I think his answer was right on even if it ruled out Zimmerman and you notice O'Mara did not ask if it was Zimmerman's voice because he knew what the Sentinel already said. IMO

I don't understand. If the FBI concluded it was not GZ, and the two experts concluded it was not GZ, who else could it possibly be?

To me it indicates the FBI results were inconclusive or that they found that it was more likely GZ.
 

LolaMoon08

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I agree about the navigation, but all of this could have been avoided - O'Mara could have simply told the Judge and not the media. Defense attorneys always have a reason when they get in front of the camera. What is it??

4/10 Zimmerman put up his website with a paypal account attached
4/11 Zimmerman hires O'Mara
4/12 Zimmerman is arrested

Looking at the time linel, I don't see how he could have raised $200,000 in two days, the time GZ was running it. Unless someone let GZ know about the money while he was in jail, I also don't know how he would have knowledge of the amount. Aren't calls and visits to inmates recorded?

The Judge will be looking into it. I'm not really worried? I don't really care about the money. People can spend their money how they wish. I don't like that some of his family may have lied, but I'm used to families lying under oath now. :shrugs:
 

Zak

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I would take the word of an expert over that of a father who just lost his son any day! You can't expect a father to be able to comprehend that those screams were his sons. That is for the experts to decide.

IMO, I do believe that both George and Trayvon could have been yelling at different moments, however, those last few seconds of Trayvon's life and listening to those screams and as soon as the shot is fired those screams go silent? That was Trayvon. MOO

BBM

So then if GZ is on the bottom (after being punched in the nose, having his head banged off of the concrete) and Trayvon is on the top of him..... with GZ screaming for help....they are fighting over the gun....GZ gets it first and shoots Trayvon.....at that point you would expect GZ to continue screaming for help even after the struggle is over? I think the screams for help going silent when the shot is fired works both ways. JMO
 

LambChop

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Well that's the prosecution's position, and I expect the defense to take that same evidence and present it in a way that supports his story. I'm with you that if the evidence dramatically contradicts his story, find him guilty, but i'm just saying that some of the posters here (not necessarily you) 100% believe the prosecution, they put 100% faith in anything that supports convicting GZ, and discount anything that supports his story.

I just want him to get a fair trial. I think the media has convicted him already, and the evidence has barely started to be released.

I don't want to set a guilty man free, but I definitely do not want to jail an innocent man.

To be truthful I think the minute his story conflicted with the evidence (which was right away according to the homocide detective) GZ convicted himself. My problem with GZ was the minute he stepped out of the truck and did not listen to LE when they told him to return to the truck to meet patrol when they arrived. At that point I believe he decided TM's fate for him. jmo
 

sleonardelli

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Imo, that will NEVER happen. The State will also have to contend with Trayvon's father's initial statement that it was NOT Trayvon yelling.

That is what Chief Lee indicated (darn, so many articles and I can't find the one I saw where Chief Lee said this); I have NOT heard the words from Tracy Martin himself. The mother declared the screams were Trayvon's. If you have any links

I'd bet the farm that the FBI testing came back with a different result than the Orlando Sentinel. If it came back and matched that it was Trayvon then I've no doubt that Gilbreath would have said so when he testified. If he has the results of the guys hired by the Orlando Sentinel which say its Trayvon and the FBI concurs with that, he wouldn't have answered that neither test gave him any insight into whose voice it was.

IDK, could it be the SA doesn't have the FBI's result? I've seen a LOT of ambiguous testimony at the bond hearing.
 

LolaMoon08

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I don't understand. If the FBI concluded it was not GZ, and the two experts concluded it was not GZ, who else could it possibly be?

To me it indicates the FBI results were inconclusive or that they found that it was more likely GZ.

I don't know if it even indicates that the FBI results came back yet? This wasn't a Frye Hearing or a hearing on evidence. This was a bond hearing.

MOO
 

sleonardelli

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If John got such a good look you would think he would have said the black guy was on top. Never says a word about what the guy on top was wearing. IMO

I think it's been said before, in this thread, that he could've been "coached" a little. It would be interesting to hear his testimony if this makes it to trial.
 

Phoenixfla

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I'd bet the farm that the FBI testing came back with a different result than the Orlando Sentinel. If it came back and matched that it was Trayvon then I've no doubt that Gilbreath would have said so when he testified. If he has the results of the guys hired by the Orlando Sentinel which say its Trayvon and the FBI concurs with that, he wouldn't have answered that neither test gave him any insight into whose voice it was.

Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.
 

LolaMoon08

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BBM

So then if GZ is on the bottom (after being punched in the nose, having his head banged off of the concrete) and Trayvon is on the top of him..... with GZ screaming for help....they are fighting over the gun....GZ gets it first and shoots Trayvon.....at that point you would expect GZ to continue screaming for help even after the struggle is over? I think the screams for help going silent when the shot is fired works both ways. JMO

Actually, I would not expect George to stop screaming, calmly get up, and make a phone call. I would expect for him to continue screaming for help, screaming for someone to call 911, to call police, etc... instead, he calmly got up and made a phone call. :banghead: To who?? We'll find out soon enough.

MOO
 

LambChop

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BBM

So then if GZ is on the bottom (after being punched in the nose, having his head banged off of the concrete) and Trayvon is on the top of him..... with GZ screaming for help....they are fighting over the gun....GZ gets it first and shoots Trayvon.....at that point you would expect GZ to continue screaming for help even after the struggle is over? I think the screams for help going silent when the shot is fired works both ways. JMO

My guess is the screams would have stopped before he shot the gun. And if GZ was screaming I would think it would be more of a grunting sound while he was trying to pull out his weapon. The screams sound as if there was someone who was facing death and knew it. The minute GZ pulled out his gun the screams should have stopped because he would no longer be fearful. The screams sound like someone trying to get away because they knew they were about to die. GZ would have not had that fear at the moment he pulled his gun. jmo
 

sleonardelli

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I still want to know who the neighbor was that took that picture? I want to know why it was so important to take a picture of George's head and not help the dying kid on the ground? You know, the unarmed one that wasn't moving compared to the man who was up, walking around, and making phone calls?

MOO

I'm wondering if it might have been the off-duty narcotics officer.
 

LolaMoon08

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Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.

You realize that this was a bond hearing? If the SA does not have that evidence back yet, they would not be able to confirm or deny any such conclusions. We have no idea what has been handed over to the defense this week? If the FBI results are not in there, then that means the SA hasn't even gotten them back yet.

MOO
 

Phoenixfla

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I would take the word of an expert over that of a father who just lost his son any day! You can't expect a father to be able to comprehend that those screams were his sons. That is for the experts to decide.

IMO, I do believe that both George and Trayvon could have been yelling at different moments, however, those last few seconds of Trayvon's life and listening to those screams and as soon as the shot is fired those screams go silent? That was Trayvon.

MOO

Do you also discount TM's mother stating it was TM? Therefore only to rely on the experts for the state and the defense?
 

Karmady

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And I would argue that the defendant and his defense team might 'err' in whatever direction would tend to keep him from spending the rest of his natural life in prison for following, confronting and shooting an unarmed teenager to death.

IMO

Yeah, but in this case the initial impression of the grieving father and the defense are the same. So George can stand by his initial statement and Mr. Martin cannot
 

katydid23

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Except perhaps all his blood after GZ shot him point blank in the chest, then I would venture to guess that his gray hoodie was almost completely red.

But the witness was describing the jacket color at the time of the scuffle. There had been no shots yet.
 

Phoenixfla

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I don't think the State has to deal with anything. Once they play the tape it will be obvious on the parents faces that they are listening to their son screaming in horror. I believe Mr. Martin said the second time he heard the tape it was much clearer than the first time and he agreed it was his son. Since the tapes have been "cleared" up from when we originally heard them it does sound more like a kid than an adult. jmo

Probably all 4 parents.

Just sayin...
 

LambChop

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Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.

Gilbreath can't say that. He is not an expert and only an expert could testify to that conclusion. MOM was asked him specific questions if he knew. You can't say you know when you really don't know for sure just as we can't say for sure, only that the experts did the test and they said it was not GZ. Gilbreath was not asked that question. MOM did know the answers because the questions were designed to ask Gilbreath in a certain way that he could not answer because he did not conduct the test. He was able to get the tests done by OS in there though. lol jmo
 

Karmady

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Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.

Excellent, excellent point. You know "the rule"!
 

mercuriod

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Also, O'Mara took a huge risk asking that question if he did not already know the answer. He knew the answer because it was GZ screaming. If Gilbreath would have come back and said "Yes, we have concluded with a high probability that it was not GZ that screamed on the 911 call", it would have been the headline of every newspaper around the world. It was a huge risk.

BBM: LOL, O'Mara was 2 days into this case, he didn't "KNOW" the answer to anything at that point, he has already admitted he didn't even know his own clients financial situation < mod snip >
 
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