17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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AngelWings444

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Thank you, so when will we see a document dump?

Not soon enough. We need something to get us beyond that little bond hearing. :please:

I have a question: How can someone be beating your head on the concrete, and covering up your mouth at the same time? :waitasec: Then, the guy with the gun, who is being beating to a pulp, while being straddled by this very coordinated, strong person, is able to reach down past the aggressor's body (who is beating him and suffocating him) and pull his gun?

I really don't need it answered, it simply doesn't make sense. JMO
 

Dr.Fessel

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Not soon enough. We need something to get us beyond that little bond hearing. :please:

I have a question: How can someone be beating your head on the concrete, and covering up your mouth at the same time? :waitasec: Then, the guy with the gun, who is being beating to a pulp, while being straddled by this very coordinated, strong person, is able to reach down past the aggressor's body (who is beating him and suffocating him) and pull his gun?

I really don't need it answered, it simply doesn't make sense. JMO
Don't forget he was reaching for Zimmerman's gun at the same time.
 

jaded cat

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I think your right on the money. As I see it, neither of them were committing a crime until one lays a hand on the other. If that was GZ, then I think you have a case for manslaughter, possibly murder, but if it was TM that started the physical exchange, then GS acted in self defense, and potentially protected under SYG.

In the absence of any evidence of who touched the other first, you have to acquit.

BBM

Not exactly. GZ had to be in fear for his life. By your description, a person could go out and provoke someone into taking the first punch, then they get a free pass to kill them. "But officer, I was afraid he was going to kill me!" There must be a bar set somewhere as to what is reasonable fear for your life. Based on the photos of GZ's head and the video at the police station, I think GZ has a long way to go to prove that.
 

AngelWings444

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Don't forget he was reaching for Zimmerman's gun at the same time.
:what: And..he ends up dead. Everything sure went GZ's way that night. :banghead:

In regards to Trayvon's girlfriend. Didn't her cell phone records indicate her Mom or someone called 911 long before Crump was able to speak to her? I believe it was 3 days after Trayvon was killed?

Since I don't have that link up, JMO and what I recall.
 

IzzyBlanche

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Random thought.

In real life, if you've caught someone lying to you, do you automatically believe everything else that person says?

It's a rhetorical question directed at no one in particular, but I would venture to say 100% of you would answer "no."

GZ said under oath in the bond hearing that he didn't realize how young TM was, that he thought he was just a bit younger than himself.

Yet on the call to police he correctly identified TM's age as in his late teens and referred to him more than once IIRC as a "kid."

So, lie #1 stated under oath.

After that how anyone can believe a word GZ says (apart from MOM who is getting paid to do so, LOL) is simply beyond me.

JMO MOO etc.
 

LynnM

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:what: And..he ends up dead. Everything sure went GZ's way that night. :banghead:

In regards to Trayvon's girlfriend. Didn't her cell phone records indicate her Mom or someone called 911 long before Crump was able to speak to her? I believe it was 3 days after Trayvon was killed?

Since I don't have that link up, JMO and what I recall.

We were discussing the phone records that were posted in a PDF online in an earlier thread. Some posters thought they were the girl's phone records but I believe they were Trayon's based on later discussions. There is nothing past when he was killed until a 911 call appears on March 2 or thereabouts.
 

suspicious1

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Not soon enough. We need something to get us beyond that little bond hearing. :please:

I have a question: How can someone be beating your head on the concrete, and covering up your mouth at the same time? :waitasec: Then, the guy with the gun, who is being beating to a pulp, while being straddled by this very coordinated, strong person, is able to reach down past the aggressor's body (who is beating him and suffocating him) and pull his gun?

I really don't need it answered, it simply doesn't make sense. JMO

It doesn't and IMO it never will.

IMO the SA have what they need to put that loser where he belongs....prison.
 

Desdemona

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Here is the actual interview with "John"

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

And here is what it ACTUALLY says

The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

So now if the guy on the bottom is GZ what is John telling GZ to stop?

No where in that interview did "John" say the names of Zimmerman or Trayvon as your posts states he did!
BBM, You are right, John doesn't mention either GZ's or TM's name. But IMO neither can we be certain he was referring to the man on the bottom in the red sweater.

I listened several times; what strikes me is that John does not enunciate the word "him," i.e. there is no audible "H."

To me, phonetically it sounds more like "told'm."

1:08.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xqV47IVfZBg#t=68s

The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told 'em to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

As in, told (th)em to stop. JMO

bbm/cbm
 

Adrienne37

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According to Grandmaj, we are not supposed to discuss Trayvon's girlfriend and I believe that means what was discussed on the radio program, her Twitter, or anything else along those lines. This child is a minor just like Trayvon is.

04-14-2012, 05:02 PM
grandmaj
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I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...7#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp.

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cas...d-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29...-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7789355&postcount=114"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25[/ame]


Grandmaj's second post regarding the issue....

04-14-2012, 09:15 PM
grandmaj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaj
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=168920&page=5

I have posted a thorough review of the allegation that the girl waited 3 weeks to make any report. See the post above.

The Moderators have given much leeway to discuss this allegation. At this point it is time to move on because the MSM facts, do not back up the allegation.

We are asking that you treat this child as a victim, not make wild accusations about her or her motivations unless you can back it up. You can question the truth in what she is saying and you can discuss how it may look or be challenged in court. But the personal characterizations and discussions about this minor are not allowed. She is a victim.


Trayvon's girlfriend is a minor and we have removed too many links to her picture today. It is a serious TOS violation to post pictures of minors.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7789971&postcount=256"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25[/ame]
 

vlpate

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I'm confused. She went to the hospital for several hours the night of the viewing because she found out she was the last to speak to him. I thought I read the lawyer told her. I'll have to look for that. If that is true then the weeks later phone record account makes no sense. Anyone remember that too?

I'll have to find the link, but on one of the shows Trayvon's brother or cousin said they had met g/f at the viewing.

"Tracy found the girl's number on TM's phone, according to Crump. (Answer to a question that came up earlier about phone records)

Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening [March 18th], was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon’s password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html
 

vlpate

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According to Grandmaj, we are not supposed to discuss Trayvon's girlfriend and I believe that means what was discussed on the radio program, her Twitter, or anything else along those lines. This child is a minor just like Trayvon is.

04-14-2012, 05:02 PM
grandmaj
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43,425
I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...7#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp.

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cas...d-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29...-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25


Grandmaj's second post regarding the issue....

04-14-2012, 09:15 PM
grandmaj
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaj
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=168920&page=5

I have posted a thorough review of the allegation that the girl waited 3 weeks to make any report. See the post above.

The Moderators have given much leeway to discuss this allegation. At this point it is time to move on because the MSM facts, do not back up the allegation.

We are asking that you treat this child as a victim, not make wild accusations about her or her motivations unless you can back it up. You can question the truth in what she is saying and you can discuss how it may look or be challenged in court. But the personal characterizations and discussions about this minor are not allowed. She is a victim.


Trayvon's girlfriend is a minor and we have removed too many links to her picture today. It is a serious TOS violation to post pictures of minors.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

Perhaps this transcript with Crumps words that they didn't know about the phone call wasn't available?

"We took another step in this -- what has been a daily journey for the past three and a half weeks. Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening, was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon's password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive.

He called me late Sunday night and told me that he had called the young lady, and he told me, and I was just utterly shocked when he told me the time that they talked."

I am not questioning the girlfriend at all, I don't believe she is being deceptive at all. I'm questioning how SPD could have known about this and the Martins and Crump did not.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html
 

Zak

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Please and thank you!


Here it is and you are very welcome! I did make a mistake because it was Piers Morgans show not JVM. Sorry.

It was my understanding the the GF was not talking to the SPD or cooperating with them. Pam Bondi ,the Florida AG was on the Piers Morgan show on 3/27/12. This is what I found:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/27/pmt.01.html

MORGAN: Yes, I mean, look, I am encouraged by what you're saying. It's good that a senior lawmaker in Florida is saying all this, but in the end, you know, I remain like many people absolutely bemused that somebody can shoot somebody in cold blood, an unarmed young teenager.

And so, I mean, I just think with your legal training and your legal background on what appears to be a very empathetic attitude towards this case, it might be quite powerful for the attorney general of Florida to say publicly, you know what? This guy should be arrested. He should be interviewed under caution and he should, if necessary, face charges. But he should be at stage one of the legal process of being under arrest.

BONDI: Well, what we've done is appoint a special prosecutor. And that's what she's doing. Conducting a thorough investigation because we need to get Trayvon's girlfriend to cooperate which I don't know if was happening previously. And they may have had good reason for that. But she's cooperating now. And again, a thorough investigation is being done to ensure that justice is sought for that family.
 

suspicious1

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I would think anyone who put their hand over your mouth and nose better expect to get bitten. Wouldn't it be a reflex action to try and bite someone whose hand is pressing down on your mouth???? jmo

Either that or clawing at the arms or hands that's covering your mouth and nose.

It's all BS if you ask me.

JMO
 

vlpate

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Here it is and you are very welcome! I did make a mistake because it was Piers Morgans show not JVM. Sorry.

It was my understanding the the GF was not talking to the SPD or cooperating with them. Pam Bondi ,the Florida AG was on the Piers Morgan show on 3/27/12. This is what I found:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...27/pmt.01.html

MORGAN: Yes, I mean, look, I am encouraged by what you're saying. It's good that a senior lawmaker in Florida is saying all this, but in the end, you know, I remain like many people absolutely bemused that somebody can shoot somebody in cold blood, an unarmed young teenager.

And so, I mean, I just think with your legal training and your legal background on what appears to be a very empathetic attitude towards this case, it might be quite powerful for the attorney general of Florida to say publicly, you know what? This guy should be arrested. He should be interviewed under caution and he should, if necessary, face charges. But he should be at stage one of the legal process of being under arrest.

BONDI: Well, what we've done is appoint a special prosecutor. And that's what she's doing. Conducting a thorough investigation because we need to get Trayvon's girlfriend to cooperate which I don't know if was happening previously. And they may have had good reason for that. But she's cooperating now. And again, a thorough investigation is being done to ensure that justice is sought for that family.

Thank you. Pam Bondi has said several times she is a good friend of Crump and Parks. Hopefully there's no conflict of interest there.
 

IzzyBlanche

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<snipped>

In one of my previous posts I linked one of JVM show's in which she had the FL AG Pam Bondi. During that show she said that Trayvon's GF was not cooperating with LE and wouldn't talk. Bondi said she wouldn't talk until the Feds started investigating and she finally talked to them. If you want the link to that JVM show just let me know.

BBM I don't know if I am blind or stupid or hallucinating, or what, but in the quote you posted downthread, Bondi does not say that the girlfriend was not cooperating with LE. She said she didn't know if [the girlfriend cooperating] had been happening previously.

Also the link doesn't work, but the quote says nothing about the Feds. Perhaps in the piece in its entirety, but again the link didn't work.
 

IzzyBlanche

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BBM I don't know if I am blind or stupid or hallucinating, or what, but in the quote you posted downthread, Bondi does not say that the girlfriend was not cooperating with LE. She said she didn't know if [the girlfriend cooperating] had been happening previously.

Also the link doesn't work, but the quote says nothing about the Feds. Perhaps in the piece in its entirety, but again the link didn't work.

I found the transcript so I am posting a link below. I think it is the same link so I don't know why it didn't work.

Anyhoo.

Again there is nothing about the GF cooperating only after the Feds became involved.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/27/pmt.01.html
 

vlpate

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Just adding to this:
"On March 20th Benjamin Crump held a major press conference where he revealed that he was in possession of a sworn affidavit from Trayvon’s 15-year-old girlfriend <modsnip>.

We took another step in this — what has been a daily journey for the past three and a half weeks.

Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening [March 18th], was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon’s password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive.

He called me late Sunday night and told me that he had called the young lady, and he told me, and I was just utterly shocked when he told me the time that they talked. They had talked all that day, about 400 minutes, starting that morning to the afternoon. Like many teenagers do, they talked on the phones."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html

Just for the record, her name is not anywhere close to what was modsnipped above, that is the name used in MSM articles and all over just as a fake identifier. I wouldn't want her name out here either.
 

IzzyBlanche

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Especially considering the attacks on her for (IMO as yet unproven) noncooperation and whatnot.
 
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I wonder if Trayvon had his house keys in his hands and that's what caused the gashes on GZ's head?

Anyone think keys could cause GZ's head injuries?
 

AngelWings444

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According to Grandmaj, we are not supposed to discuss Trayvon's girlfriend and I believe that means what was discussed on the radio program, her Twitter, or anything else along those lines. This child is a minor just like Trayvon is.

04-14-2012, 05:02 PM
grandmaj
WS Moderator

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43,425
I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...7#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp.

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cas...d-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29...-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25


Grandmaj's second post regarding the issue....

04-14-2012, 09:15 PM
grandmaj
WS Moderator

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaj
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=168920&page=5

I have posted a thorough review of the allegation that the girl waited 3 weeks to make any report. See the post above.

The Moderators have given much leeway to discuss this allegation. At this point it is time to move on because the MSM facts, do not back up the allegation.

We are asking that you treat this child as a victim, not make wild accusations about her or her motivations unless you can back it up. You can question the truth in what she is saying and you can discuss how it may look or be challenged in court. But the personal characterizations and discussions about this minor are not allowed. She is a victim.


Trayvon's girlfriend is a minor and we have removed too many links to her picture today. It is a serious TOS violation to post pictures of minors.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25
I believe we should all read what GrandmaJ said about the girlfriend, again. This case hasn't even made it beyond the bond hearing, it would be a shame to get the thread shut down. :moo:

Thanks Adrienne, for reminding all of us. :seeya:

JMO
 
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