17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

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zenreaper

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Great post!

Two minutes into the call, TM started coming toward GZ, staring at him, then took off running. "A beeping sound is heard, indicating that he has opened his car door." Zimmerman went after Trayvon and, out of breath, muttered profanities. He lost sight of him.Link

But he didn't know where TM was, just that he was headed toward the back gate.

I don't know that I believe TM was irate, his g/f said he seemed scared. Good point though, why would he be irate if he was running "scared". I could see him being irate if he had been up to something and thought GZ was screwing things up for him. According to the g/f, TM asked first: "why are you following me", "what are you stopping me for". GZ said, "I'm not", or "who are you". Both have a variety of versions. GZ had stopped following him 2 minutes before this altercation, and the g/f said TM told her he lost him. So how could he perceive that GZ was still following?

Save for the part where Trayvon is either running scared (of GZ or of getting caught at something), or running home.

I don't think he was walking toward him when he ran away, it was TM, according to the 911 call, walking toward GZ.

IIRC, GZ never said he confronted TM at all.

Great question, why? Why did he run and suddenly decide he was mad enough to go back? Did he actually make it home, drop something off, and come back around to confront this guy who he thinks might have witnessed something?

I agree, I doubt he heard any part of the 911 call.

Another question, which will explain my comments above, why did Tracy Martin call the Juvenile Justice dept., and the Sheriff's Dept. to see if they'd picked TM up, before calling the non-emergency number? Link
"“I had [his girlfriend] call juvenile justice, just to check and see if anyone by the name of Trayvon Martin had been picked up. No Trayvon Martin,” the father told NNPA. “My next call was to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to see if any kid had been picked up.

“My third call was to a non-emergency number at the Seminole County Sheriff’s

Department and I informed them that I was filing a missing person’s report."
.

Trayvon needs more hands imo.

If he had one hand on GZ's mouth muffling him, another hand trying to grab the gun, which appendage did he use to bash GZ's head to the concrete?

Actually, that is self explainitory. GZ is trying to get up, thus exerting pressure upwards, TM is on top, covering his mouth and nose, pushing downward. TM has the added force of his body weight as well as gravity, which is more than enough to overcome GZ's neck muscles and force his head down.
 

rossva

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As far as I know, no evidence has yet been presented in the George Zimmerman self defense case. And, although many seem to have already convicted George Zimmerman, that hasn't happened in a court of law.

So, to answer your question, no, it's not. It is, however, about your favorite acquitted individual.




Remember: Convicting on circumstantial evidence & assumptions (because the prosecution couldn’t produce any REAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE) is convenient – and would have made a lot of clueless people very happy in this case – BUT JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE.[/B]

BBM
Are you referring to Trayvon?
 

mikeysmommom

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George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.

The source said Zimmerman's account of events hasn't changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen's behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation. However, he never mentioned any of that while talking to the dispatcher.

This article is awesome!!

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...secutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

Maybe TM's circling of his car is what GZ was talking about when he said he was acting suspicious and might be on drugs. I would think someone was high if they did that to me.When I call police I usually do not go into every minute detail with them, I usually wait for the police to show up and then explain the complete situation.JMO but thats how I do it.
 

MaryAnn

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Why would that be the FURTHEST thing from her mind? According to her TM was being followed, TM was scared, and she heard the beginning of a confrontation where she can quote what both of them said......and then the line went dead. You think the FURTHEST thing from her mind would be that TM is in some kind of trouble?

Are you 16? If you're not I don't know how you can even slightly know what a teenager would do in that situation. I don't know if I at that age would have called 911. Now that I'm an old fa*t yes, but at that age probably not. I might mention it to a friend or parent, but doubt I would call 911.
 

Desdemona

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Can you please tell me where this is? I've read the entire transcript a couple of times and cannot find it. Maybe it was during a commercial break and didn't make the transcript? TIA

And the detective testified that the statements GZ gave were also inconsistent with the evidence the SA has.
Yes, the detective did state that... the same detective who is co-author and signatory to the charging document, which states that Trayvon was "trying to run home" and other details, which I believe will be proven inconsistent with the actual evidence. JMO
 

LinasK

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FTR, the dispatcher did NOT tell GZ to stop, she asked if he was following, then said they didn't need him to do that. NOT an "order" to stop. The dispatcher then ALSO continued to pump GZ for information as he was trying to find TM. Not exactly a sign that they WANTED him to stop.
We've already hashed this out on other threads. It's an indirect order, a more formal polite way to say the same thing- the meaning is clear: don't follow!
Even George's previous lawyer in another case said he doesn't follow instructions well- he wants to find it out for himself! Probably why he never made in into a police academy.
 

Nova

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I would hope they knew who she was, who TM's was dating. Surely.

Crump: "This was her really, really close personal friend. They were dating."

I imagine things have changed since the days when most families had just the one phone and parents knew who was calling their kids. Nowadays, kids have so many ways to communicate, it wouldn't be hard to conceal a boyfriend or girlfriend from your parents (just out of shyness; I'm not suggesting a major conspiracy).
 

pcrum12

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And said what?

"My call with my boyfriend was disconnected. He is somewhere 250 miles away; I don't know the address. But I heard a stranger ask him a couple of questions."

Somehow I don't see 911 jumping on that one... I'm not sure *I* would have known what to do under those circumstances and I'm a lot older than 15.

IIRC the GF claims that their conversation about GZ was much more involved, not just a mention. TM told her he was being followed even. She even told him to run! If true, I would think she would have at least told her parents or someone. As far as 911, she could have given his cell number and maybe they could have found his location and got call to appropriate jurisdiction. I mean, surely TM had told her I'm in Sanford FL. Instead, it appears MOO that she didn't give it a second thought and went about her normal daily life. Just seems hinky to me. JMO and :moo:
 

LambChop

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This makes so much sense now. I could not for the life of me believe that she would not say something if she thought TM was in trouble. It will be very interesting to know that they were not on the phone when this happened. All smoke and mirrors that she "knows" something. jmo

She was subpoened to testify to the Grand Jury. So what do you think she was going to discuss with them? And wouldn't SA have the documentation to back it up seeing how important her testimony was that she received a subpoena????? We've seen TM's phone record and the length of time he was on the phone with the GF. It was also reported they spent 400 minutes of telephone time talking that day. jmo
 

Concerned Papa

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Hmm,, yes, I do notice a color difference between the different rows of buildings, also duly noted that there was no enclosed patio on 2861. However, I found no John at all on Twin Trees Lane... maybe I am using the wrong site to search? Here is what I have:
http://www.seminoletax.org/dev/addresslist.asp?DataSearch=TWIN+TREES&Results=10&CurrentPage=1 :moo:

IDK, you're using the Seminole Tax Collector's site and I'm using the Seminole Property Appraiser's site. Not sure why it doesn't come up at the Tax Collector's site, but got to this link:

http://scpaweb.scpafl.org/v3/

Click on Address....then enter TWIN TREES in the search window.....click Execute Search.....when the list comes up, go down to the 10th property owner down from the top.....click on that parcel and the plat and owner's info comes up.

I learned a long time ago the value of an appraiser's site in any county in FL. Tons of info is available. You can go from plat view to aerial view with a click if you choose.

Hope this helps.
 

vlpate

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Trayvon needs more hands imo.

If he had one hand on GZ's mouth muffling him, another hand trying to grab the gun, which appendage did he use to bash GZ's head to the concrete?

The hand he was using to cover his mouth? A 6'3" person is going to have pretty big hands. I would imagine GZ was lifting his head while trying to move away from the cement and TM was slamming it back down with the hand over his mouth. JMO
 

Donjeta

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Actually, that is self explainitory. GZ is trying to get up, thus exerting pressure upwards, TM is on top, covering his mouth and nose, pushing downward. TM has the added force of his body weight as well as gravity, which is more than enough to overcome GZ's neck muscles and force his head down.

It might be enough to push his head downward but merely pushing his head downward is not the kind of repeated bashing that was described and allegedly caused a fear of life-altering brain injury. It requires a back and forth motion which is impossible if one is simultaneously using one's body weight to muffle the mouth and push the head down.
 

zenreaper

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Are you 16? If you're not I don't know how you can even slightly know what a teenager would do in that situation. I don't know if I at that age would have called 911. Now that I'm an old fa*t yes, but at that age probably not. I might mention it to a friend or parent, but doubt I would call 911.

Actually, being 16 would be MORE of a reason to call 911. You ever meet a 16 year old that didn't LIVE and LOVE to be in the middle or DRAMA?
 

flourish

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Of course not, but they could have relayed a message. I am sure she knew he was at The Retreat in Sanford. Maybe a call to his DAD or MOM? SOMETHING to indicate she was as concerned at the time as she claimed to be after the fact.

Why are you sure that she knew he was at "The Retreat in Sanford?" Is there a link stating she knew the name of the complex he was staying at? I couldn't tell you the names of the complexes my friends live in, in or out of town...
 

Donjeta

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The hand he was using to cover his mouth? A 6'3" person is going to have pretty big hands. I would imagine GZ was lifting his head while trying to move away from the cement and TM was slamming it back down with the hand over his mouth. JMO

It would have been easy for GZ to stop the near-fatal head bashing then by just stopping to lift his head and try to move in a rolling motion instead.
 

mommakk51

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Considering she lost her baby boy I would think there would be a lot of questions that Sabrina wants answered. GZ's explanation was self serving and totally ridiculous!


GZ's apology was exactly what Sybrina had spoke of in the media. He told her he was sorry for her loss, that he did not know how old Tray was, or if he was armed. Those were questions that Sybrina had asked. He had an explanation about why he could not talk to them until that day- he'd been advised not to.

IF it is true, that GZ had ptsd after all this happened, then the first step to him getting better would be to face what caused it. He faced it. His apology served both him, and Sybrina, as she got the answers she was looking for. I didn't see a thing wrong with it. :moo::moo::moo:
 

deelytful1

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Trayvon needs more hands imo.

If he had one hand on GZ's mouth muffling him, another hand trying to grab the gun, which appendage did he use to bash GZ's head to the concrete?

George Zimmerman's lies will all come back to haunt him (and prosecute him) How will a jury every believe a WORD he says about the "attack" (which the whole SYG defense hinges upon) when he has lied so many times.
I can't wait!!
 

zenreaper

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It might be enough to push his head downward but merely pushing his head downward is not the kind of repeated bashing that was described and allegedly caused a fear of life-altering brain injury. It requires a back and forth motion which is impossible if one is simultaneously using one's body weight to muffle the mouth and push the head down.

Not really. When GZ's head is raised, there is no resistance, so it is easier to push it down. When it reaches the hard surface (concrete or whatever), the force required increases, and the pain gives GZ a boost of adrenaline, giving him the force to push back. When TM feels the head rising again, he applies more force and it goes back down.

Actually, quite easy to see it happening that way.
 

LinasK

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As far as 911, she could have given his cell number and maybe they could have found his location and got call to appropriate jurisdiction. I mean, surely TM had told her I'm in Sanford FL.
Maybe not. We haven't heard where TM's cell was found, only that it was locked. Her calling 911 would NOT have made the difference between life and death for TM in this case, so we really ought to stop picking on the girlfriend's actions.
 
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