2008.09.05 Child's Backpack, Ammonia & Bleach Bottles F

[bunnyphoenix1]

Now that I look at the pictures I don't see any connection.

Why?

If there was:

1) TM would ask to not display them.
2) LE would have already asked for them to be taken down.
3) David L. respects both parties and wouldn't post them if he thought they did.

End of subject for me.

Coley...I was watching David's site all day that day and he was allowed to take pics and was talking to TM all the time...when he posted the pics he said they hadn't determined the significance, if any, of the items yet.....I think he was being truthful...had they been bones, I'm sure TM wouldn't have wanted pics taken, but perhaps he wasn't concerned about pics of chemical bottles?? David was given special privileges to photograph etc.

 

[Coley]

Coley...I was watching David's site all day that day and he was allowed to take pics and was talking to TM all the time...when he posted the pics he said they hadn't determined the significance, if any, of the items yet.....I think he was being truthful...had they been bones, I'm sure TM wouldn't have wanted pics taken, but perhaps he wasn't concerned about pics of chemical bottles?? David was given special privileges to photograph etc.

But remember the disney dress? TM did not want that getting out. It did and he was pissed.

David was given permission to post stuff found that could be related to Caylee? I think not. I have heard from numerous TES members and people close to TM that "anything of significants" will not be made public PERIOD.

Who knows anymore. I just know that the article is dated 9-5. If it were something related the pictures would be asked to be taken down by TM and especially LE.

 

[Coley]

No, I didn't say anything about the trunk. And I did read the story thank you. What I am saying is if these cleaning bottles were in fact used to clean up a crime scene, I don't think anyone would just leave them out in the open. They would be properly disposed of dont ya think? Thrown in a random dumpster maybe? IDK, I'm sure my opinion is not worth much on here considering that I think Caylee is alive somewhere, but I just don't think these cleaning bottles have anything to do with this.

So where is she alive at? What makes you have this opinion? Seriously, I would like to here this

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

But remember the disney dress? TM did not want that getting out. It did and he was pissed.

David was given permission to post stuff found that could be related to Caylee? I think not. I have heard from numerous TES members and people close to TM that "anything of significants" will not be made public PERIOD.

Who knows anymore. I just know that the article is dated 9-5. If it were something related the pictures would be asked to be taken down by TM and especially LE.

Coley...I hate to disagree with you, but yes, he was given special permissions from Tim M. I used to read all his posts re this case, and he was obviously on very good terms with Tim. In fact, he travelled with TES to other searches when they finished in Florida. He has it all up on his blog, about his special permission too.

Why do you think LE would make David take it down? The trial is next month, most stuff is out in the public thanks to the sunshine laws, there is nothing offensive in the pic, they didn't know about the chloroform then etc etc. I'm not convinced it's not related. Can you think of any good reason for the stuff to be out there in an area where her phone was pinged at the relevant time??? What other reasons can you think of for that stuff to be there???

 

[EgyptNug]

There's so much junk out in the shrubs and along paths and roads. Some items I saw while searching: tons of big paint buckets, a swimmy diaper, a plastic kid's cash register, a brass elephant, other brass items, carpeting, an outdoor camping shower hanging from a tree, a roll of toilet paper, a can of pray paint, a sex toy, trashbags full of food wrappers and beer bottles. Unless something else of significance is found nearby, I don't think LE's lockers could hold all the junk that ends up littering the wooded areas..

 

[debs]

Frankly, those pictures looked like the objects had been washed there by water and came to rest in the spots they were found. However, that does not account for the wild coincidence of an ammonia bottle and a bleach bottle coming to rest at the same spot. So uh........well, I guess I'm just a little FOS on this one

 

[Ripley007]

Does anyone honestly think that if someone was "cleaning up a CRIME SCENE" that that person would leave the empty cleaning bottles behind? If someone was going to take the time to clean, they would take the bottles too, ummmm fingerprints on the bottles would be easy to get.


As a side note, I did not know that amonia and bleach made a dangerous chemical and I used it once to clean a bathtub...........thank goodness I didn't use much, because what little I did use made me sick sick sick!!

I completly agree about "who would be dumb enough" to leave 2 toxic bottles lying side by side out in the open somewhere. Why not buried deep in a trash bag and disposed of...duh!

About your second paragraph... about not knowing that bleach+amonia=DEATH!...I learned about this danger around age 12 or so when the headlines of our local paper on Nov. 2 screamed about 2 separate deaths that had occured in our small town of 5000 the day before. Seems that 2 unrelated households were "vandalized" with grafitti Halloween Night and the next morning, the women of these households BOTH mixed bleach with amonia to scrub off the mess from their sidewalks and porches and BOTH were overcome with the toxic fumes and BOTH died!

Hearing SO many posters here state their own close calls with these same mixed toxic fumes is just SCARY! There but the grace of God...

 

[Zoe Bogart]

She could care less about Caylee (obviously). If it would save her a$$ from the pokey then yes she would do anything to the body. In her mind she probably thinks....Well she is already dead, it's not like it will hurt her.

And sadly, it seems the whole Anthony family thinks that way.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

No, I didn't say anything about the trunk. And I did read the story thank you. What I am saying is if these cleaning bottles were in fact used to clean up a crime scene, I don't think anyone would just leave them out in the open. They would be properly disposed of dont ya think? Thrown in a random dumpster maybe? IDK, I'm sure my opinion is not worth much on here considering that I think Caylee is alive somewhere, but I just don't think these cleaning bottles have anything to do with this.

Your opinion DOES matter, no matter what you believe. That's why we're here, to exchange ideas, suppositions, theories. We're here to help find Caylee.

About the trash found in the wooded areas, people dispose of junk all the time. It's called dumping. That's why there are signs posted in many places, "No littering", "No dumping allowed". Somehow people think they can throw their trash anywhere. I've seen where people disposed of oil cans, air filters, tires and various other automotive items in woods or open fields. Incredible.

I've known about the mixing bleach and amonia dangers since childhood, too. I never could understand why anyone would want to mix them together. Alone they smell awful. Alone they do an excellent job of cleaning. Boggles the mind.

I've been curious about the Moss Park area for months. I even posted aerial views of it in other threads. No one seemed overly interested. Another area of interest is Demetree Park, just south of 408. Of course, in Orlando, it seems there are many places one could hide a body. Too bad there isn't a TV show CSI: Orlando. They could have loads of stories about the place.

 

[JWG]

I won't post a detailed timeline or map at the moment, but in looking closely at movements (via pings) and who she was texting, I speculate that KC left Fusian just after 2AM on the morning of July 1 and drove to Andy F.'s parent's home in the Bithlo area, arriving around 2:30 AM. She then spent the entire evening there, leaving around 9:45 AM the next morning. She could have been with Sean H. instead (lives very close to Andy F. parents), but she had been texting with Andy F. all night.

The ping that has raised everyone's suspicions is a single ping at about 4:25 AM from a tower south of the water plant just off the Beachline. This is the only ping from this tower in the logs that we have. In between this tower and Andy F. is another tower that KC could have pinged off. The hypothesis is that if KC pinged off the far tower and not the near tower, she must not have been at Andy F., she had to be farther south.

But lets be cautious. Cell towers or even parts of cell towers can be "taken off line" when they are not needed to handle traffic. This could be done to reduce power consumption or to service components - such as computers and storage - in the tower's base station. But the basic reason to do so is to reduce the cost of owning and operating the tower.

The "near" tower sits in the middle of nowhere in an area of very low population density. I would not be surprised to see that tower go offline in the wee hours of the morning. It simply is not needed for handling local traffic at that time. The "far" tower sits right on the toll road, and is less likely to go offline. Also, the "far" tower is only 4 miles from Andy F's house, so it is reasonable to ping from there.

IMO, the "find" of bleach bottles, etc. had nothing to do with the case. Further supporting this is that Andy F. (and Sean H.) is not on the witness list. Now I know the witness list can be changed, and maybe he will be added in the future. But I think not. He won't be called if his testimony does not help place Casey somewhere involving criminal activity, such as movement or disposal of the body. AL might think it is criminal that she dropped him off at the airport then drove his jeep to some guy's house and spent the night with him, but it is not against the law. The defense won't call him because he is not needed for an alibi, and frankly only would make her look worse from a character standpoint.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think your opinion is worth something and had no idea you thought Caylee was alive!

But, why do you think these cleaning bottles would be hidden in the bush or do you think they were used to clean something in the bush...imo they really are not the kind of items people bring on a picnic and I can see no good reason for them being there.

I think the fact they are in the bush means they were "disposed of" as I think it so unlikely these sorts of chemicials would be in the bush for any legitimate reason.

Just a thought here - a lot of people drop garbage in deserted areas. Couple that with a hurricane and trash would likely be spread around. I would be curious to know if there were other debries spread around that area that were not mentioned because there would be no connection to this case (i.e. empty cans, plastic food storage containers, etc.)

Everyone is so anxious to "solve" this case that they are trying to connect every little thing to it. Sometimes we need to step back and look at the big picture. Just my opinion.

 

[EgyptNug]

Do you guys think she would have burned her body though? I know I brought that up, but, gosh that would be just horrible to do!!!!!!!

After reading somewhere that it would take about 3 hours at 1800+ degree fire, to burn the body, I found it very unlikely. Plus it mentioned the smell would be horrible (hence why it would be done near the sewage treatment center), but doing it there, for that reason, requires I think much more forethought and knowledge of burning bodies, than KC probably had.. Also, it said there would still be some teeth and bones left..

Who would want to be caught with a burning body in Orlando, for 3 hours? Doesn't make sense.

Also, the mystery of the gas cans on the 24th was corroborated byAL, so that only leaves Amy's gas can as a possible accelerant source..

 

[Luckybuck]

I have been on both Caylee searches and can tell you that at first I thought everything was relevant. (not realizing the scope of the search and how much ground was being covered) I have never seen so many beer bottles, car parts, and junk scattered about, even in the cemetary.
What I thought was very interesting about the David Lohr search was the specific address given to search and it being listed as "High Priority". It wasn't just an "area". I thought that I read about the connection to this address, but does anyone else remember reading about it? Was this a business that CA tried to hook Casey up with for a job?? Can't remember.
Since the cleaning items and backpack were found on the first search and there was the subsequent search it was either:
-not relevant and not collected
-collected and found not relevant
-collected and found of value based on fingerprints/DNA/blood however no body found at the site which would lead to the second search by TM.
All I know is that LE is firm about Caylee being deceased. Do they have more?

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

I have been on both Caylee searches and can tell you that at first I thought everything was relevant. (not realizing the scope of the search and how much ground was being covered) I have never seen so many beer bottles, car parts, and junk scattered about, even in the cemetary.
What I thought was very interesting about the David Lohr search was the specific address given to search and it being listed as "High Priority". It wasn't just an "area". I thought that I read about the connection to this address, but does anyone else remember reading about it? Was this a business that CA tried to hook Casey up with for a job?? Can't remember.
Since the cleaning items and backpack were found on the first search and there was the subsequent search it was either:
-not relevant and not collected
-collected and found not relevant
-collected and found of value based on fingerprints/DNA/blood however no body found at the site which would lead to the second search by TM.
All I know is that LE is firm about Caylee being deceased. Do they have more?

I remember reading that also.

 

[kgeaux]

Frankly, those pictures looked like the objects had been washed there by water and came to rest in the spots they were found. However, that does not account for the wild coincidence of an ammonia bottle and a bleach bottle coming to rest at the same spot. So uh........well, I guess I'm just a little FOS on this one

Here in Louisiana, people will use Capped empty bottles as "floats" for their fishing lines. I'm not sure if that is common practice in Florida, but if it is, it could explain the two bottles being found in close proximity.

 

[dejavu101]

Your opinion DOES matter, no matter what you believe. That's why we're here, to exchange ideas, suppositions, theories. We're here to help find Caylee.

About the trash found in the wooded areas, people dispose of junk all the time. It's called dumping. That's why there are signs posted in many places, "No littering", "No dumping allowed". Somehow people think they can throw their trash anywhere. I've seen where people disposed of oil cans, air filters, tires and various other automotive items in woods or open fields. Incredible.

I've known about the mixing bleach and amonia dangers since childhood, too. I never could understand why anyone would want to mix them together. Alone they smell awful. Alone they do an excellent job of cleaning. Boggles the mind.

I've been curious about the Moss Park area for months. I even posted aerial views of it in other threads. No one seemed overly interested. Another area of interest is Demetree Park, just south of 408. Of course, in Orlando, it seems there are many places one could hide a body. Too bad there isn't a TV show CSI: Orlando. They could have loads of stories about the place.

I have also posted about Moss Park and I still feel it has a role in all this. Hopefully whatever it is that stirs my feelings here will come to light.

 

[MissJames]

I have no idea if the ammonia and bleach bottles were KC's ,but considering she did computer searches on household items that kill ,it would make sense. She could definitely make mixing the two look like an accident.

 

[Just Jayla]

Bumping for a re-examination as we come upon trial time.

I will write this after going through this thread-There are a lot of things that happen in investigations that LE miss out on or mistake as not important. The most egregious instance I can think of happened with the DC snipers: Lee Malvo called the tip line in Maryland and told them who he was and what they were doing-The LE officer that fielded the call told him to stop playing around, and hung up on him.

Just sayin'...things can be overlooked as irrelevant.

 

[Bittiness39]

Sure LE makes mistakes...no question. They are human...but I think that given the fact that all evidence leads back to ICA and her family's home...is not a mistake. I feel very confident that the State has done their very best work here (following up on all loose ends...no matter where the A's insisted they look or no matter where those ends led) and given the three years and no speedy trial (requested by the Defense) I would think that they would know more about any of the evidence (actual or rumored) and have had the means to track that down and verify it...than I do. I hope. At least I know the SA's office hasn't spent their funds fielding wild goose chases for a SODDI nor an accomplice that simply does not exist. JMO. But I feel fairly confident that all of the evidence leads to KC and if there is any extraneous stuff we haven't read about it is because the defense has not given it back (meaning they have everything the SA has) and we have not read about it simply because they are still holding onto it.

 

[Just Jayla]

Sure LE makes mistakes...no question. They are human...but I think that given the fact that all evidence leads back to ICA and her family's home...is not a mistake. I feel very confident that the State has done their very best work here (following up on all loose ends...no matter where the A's insisted they look or no matter where those ends led) and given the three years and no speedy trial (requested by the Defense) I would think that they would know more about any of the evidence (actual or rumored) and have had the means to track that down and verify it...than I do. I hope. At least I know the SA's office hasn't spent their funds fielding wild goose chases for a SODDI nor an accomplice that simply does not exist. JMO. But I feel fairly confident that all of the evidence leads to KC and if there is any extraneous stuff we haven't read about it is because the defense has not given it back (meaning they have everything the SA has) and we have not read about it simply because they are still holding onto it.

No doubt you are right, and thanks for the post-I felt compelled to start bumping old threads so we can give another once-over (or twice-over!) before trial.

Of the 150+ pages of threads in this forum, many of them are opinion-based or very similar to another thread or two (it would take forever for the mods to merge all of the similar threads, I can only imagine)-Opinion threads are no less important than the "fact"-based threads, don't get me wrong. But I am finding that the threads that still carry active relevance or have lingering questions attached to them are fewer and far between.

This is a testimony to the great work we have done here. Many of the threads ask questions that were great and important at the time, but now I can just glance at the thread title and answer the question at hand immediately.

Let's just say, not much has gotten past us, or LE for that matter.