2008.11 Events Surrounding the Casey Anthony Case

Also, does anyone have at their fingers tips - the information that CA choked ICA that night? Or is this information ICA told Lee, and it has grown since then. And yes, I can imagine they had a shouting match - there was so much that was so very wrong in that household. But do we have anyone who actually witnessed this choking?

bbm
No. only Cindy,Casey and Caylee were at home in the evening..iirc George was at work...
IIRC It was either ICA or Cindy (I think I read somewhere it was Cindy) to Lee to Jesse
 
Also, does anyone have at their fingers tips - the information that CA choked ICA that night? Or is this information ICA told Lee, and it has grown since then. And yes, I can imagine they had a shouting match - there was so much that was so very wrong in that household. But do we have anyone who actually witnessed this choking?

Cindy told Lee, who told Jesse Grund that CA had admitted choking ICA during a big fight which turned physical .. CA thought the fight was the reason ICA 'had run off' and was not letting her see Caylee.
http://www.wesh.com/news/19129886/detail.html
 
"8th Sat- It is later reported that on this date, PI James Hoover approached TES volunteer Bill Todd at the search command post to report a confidential tip. Hoover stated that an unidentified young female who lives in the Hopespring neighborhood had told him that she had seen Casey Anthony’s car with its trunk opened, backed up to the trail at the dead end of Suburban Drive near the school, sometime prior to Casey’s July 15 arrest. (Note: The Pontiac was abandoned on June 27 and towed to Johnson’s wrecker yard on June 30, where it presumably remained until it was retrieved by George and Cindy on July 15.) Edwards and Melich interviewed Bill Todd in September 2009 about this incident. Todd told them he did not recognize James Hoover at the time, and only learned his identity much later, after seeing him on TV. "

WOW, Great job on the time line. I've been following this since day one, all I can say is WOW what a great group of sleuthers!

You know, this really fascinates me. Why did Hoover do this? What was the motive? Also, just think of it in terms of KC telling somebody how she dumped Caylee's body. But here we "conveniently" have an eye witness??? Do we have a thread on this already?

Oh, and also FANTASTIC WORK ON THIS THREAD.
 
"8th Sat- It is later reported that on this date, PI James Hoover approached TES volunteer Bill Todd at the search command post to report a confidential tip. Hoover stated that an unidentified young female who lives in the Hopespring neighborhood had told him that she had seen Casey Anthony’s car with its trunk opened, backed up to the trail at the dead end of Suburban Drive near the school, sometime prior to Casey’s July 15 arrest. (Note: The Pontiac was abandoned on June 27 and towed to Johnson’s wrecker yard on June 30, where it presumably remained until it was retrieved by George and Cindy on July 15.) Edwards and Melich interviewed Bill Todd in September 2009 about this incident. Todd told them he did not recognize James Hoover at the time, and only learned his identity much later, after seeing him on TV. "



You know, this really fascinates me. Why did Hoover do this? What was the motive? Also, just think of it in terms of KC telling somebody how she dumped Caylee's body. But here we "conveniently" have an eye witness??? Do we have a thread on this already? Maybe he was trying to out the anthonys without really telling how.

Oh, and also FANTASTIC WORK ON THIS THREAD.

The only thing I can come up with is he had a momentary conscience attack and really wanted someone other than the anthony's to find her. The more and more i read the more convinced I am that THEY wanted to find her on their own terms on their own time and maybe, just maybe, hoover thought this was horrible.
 
I was aware of MF's claim that he told the Anthonys Caylee was dead but I could swear he did a Greta skit where he said neigbours had told him about a fight and Cindy and George both denied this. :waitasec:

Then we are told the fight came from Jesse Grund who got it from Lee. Im not saying Jesse is lying but he has gotten his dates mixed up before and neighbour Gene Couty is so far the only witness in discovery that saw Cindy and Casey going at it........... but he could not be pinned down on exact dates.

And didnt Shirley Plesea say she found out about the cheque, in April?
:waitasec: This has always bothered me cos so many people are totally convinced a fight, ergo a catalyst for Caylee's murder happened June 15th
.

I have never been convinced the fight (if it happened on 6/15) was over Gma & Gpa's money. Why would SP wait that long to tell CA about the theft, when we know CA spent lot's of time with the Gparents in May and early June?

If the fight happened that night, it is way more likely to have been over little things CA put together after spending the day with Caylee, than spending a couple hours with SP.

Maybe CA learned some hard truths that day about where Caylee was spending her time and with who. Caylee, at almost 3 could surely tell CA where they hung out waiting for GA to leave, where they slept on nights they weren't at home, most of it would have just been confirming what CA already knew (no job, no nanny, many boys around, etc).

How much time does it take for a heated discussion to escalate to physical violence, then for the "victim" of a good choking to get over it all while chatting and texting with lover-boy (for hours), yet never mention it?

While the 20 minute-ish phone break mid-evening, is long enough for many things to happen - a fight that turns physical, where both participants stay in the same house and then just drop the whole thing... I have trouble seeing this as very probable.

Could CA and ICA have had words that night? Sure. Did CA tell ICA what she may have learned? Of course, but maybe it was just the usual tit for tat - followed by, don't look for me to babysit while you do your thing (ho-hum more of the usual), followed by CA refusing to take ICA's call the next afternoon!

Did CA embellish on this fight to get LA to help look for ICA? Possibly. Did LA spread the story or embellish the tale he told Jesse? Also possible. They sure aren't going to say this came about because CA refused to babysit! To CA, that would make ICA look like a carpy MotY / CA look like a carpy GMotY.
 
I know this is ot, but it just occurred to me. remember when lee said "is this like last time" and we were racking our brains trying to figure it out. The other month where things got crazy was march of 2008, when casey ran through cindys money and then all of a sudden it stopped. Could casey have pulled this whole im taking caylee bit on her before, like when cindy put the brakes on her money bonanza. Did she disappear in march with caylee? looking at all the events in november just made me remember the flurry of activity in march. so so sorry for the ot.
 
I know this is ot, but it just occurred to me. remember when lee said "is this like last time" and we were racking our brains trying to figure it out. The other month where things got crazy was march of 2008, when casey ran through cindys money and then all of a sudden it stopped. Could casey have pulled this whole im taking caylee bit on her before, like when cindy put the brakes on her money bonanza. Did she disappear in march with caylee? looking at all the events in november just made me remember the flurry of activity in march. so so sorry for the ot.

belle, not OT at all, and don't be sorry! WSers have found so many significant links while filling in the blanks--and I too wonder about March, did KC vanish with Caylee for some time? Will have to go back through the pings and whatnot...

But overall, I don't think that the altercation the night of June 15 had to be about money in order for it to prompt KC to kill Caylee. I really suspect it had more to do with the drive to and from Mt. Dora, and Caylee telling CiCi what her life was like with KC. And even then--IMO that fight could have been about anything. And once CA and KC went at it, I bet there was no past wrongdoing that was off-limits for CA to throw at KC, no matter how long ago. The next day, KC was alone with Caylee, and Caylee was bugging her, and KC chose to very permanently shut her up. :cow:

As for events around Nov. 2008--having read all these timelines, I am even more convinced that CA *knew* Caylee was dead, *knew* KC did it, and *knew* about the duct tape or some other evidence that it was murder, during her "silent" interview.

(Wonder if the State will be able to question CA or GA about that interview at trial?)
 
I have never been convinced the fight (if it happened on 6/15) was over Gma & Gpa's money. Why would SP wait that long to tell CA about the theft, when we know CA spent lot's of time with the Gparents in May and early June?

If the fight happened that night, it is way more likely to have been over little things CA put together after spending the day with Caylee, than spending a couple hours with SP.

Maybe CA learned some hard truths that day about where Caylee was spending her time and with who. Caylee, at almost 3 could surely tell CA where they hung out waiting for GA to leave, where they slept on nights they weren't at home, most of it would have just been confirming what CA already knew (no job, no nanny, many boys around, etc).

How much time does it take for a heated discussion to escalate to physical violence, then for the "victim" of a good choking to get over it all while chatting and texting with lover-boy (for hours), yet never mention it?

While the 20 minute-ish phone break mid-evening, is long enough for many things to happen - a fight that turns physical, where both participants stay in the same house and then just drop the whole thing... I have trouble seeing this as very probable.

Could CA and ICA have had words that night? Sure. Did CA tell ICA what she may have learned? Of course, but maybe it was just the usual tit for tat - followed by, don't look for me to babysit while you do your thing (ho-hum more of the usual), followed by CA refusing to take ICA's call the next afternoon!

Did CA embellish on this fight to get LA to help look for ICA? Possibly. Did LA spread the story or embellish the tale he told Jesse? Also possible. They sure aren't going to say this came about because CA refused to babysit! To CA, that would make ICA look like a carpy MotY / CA look like a carpy GMotY.

Thank you! I've been following along that very same trail muttering much the same thing. I have a hard time envisioning CA saying she "choked" ICA - this person for whom "appearances" are so important. And yes, just how much "choking" was involved if she spent the night texting and didn't mention it.
 
March~ I was amazed at the phone bills per month and the ease with which she just dialed in to whatever credit account could handle the purchase Du Jour.
How CA could schwallow so many lies ...incredible.
Felt bad for AmyH ..poor girl wound up couch surfing.
Best friend swears you slept walked your way into losing 400 dollars.. Wha?

Really appreciate everyones incredible record keeping and pointing readers in the direction of Vallhal's H.M.
 
I know this is ot, but it just occurred to me. remember when lee said "is this like last time" and we were racking our brains trying to figure it out. The other month where things got crazy was march of 2008, when casey ran through cindys money and then all of a sudden it stopped. Could casey have pulled this whole im taking caylee bit on her before, like when cindy put the brakes on her money bonanza. Did she disappear in march with caylee? looking at all the events in november just made me remember the flurry of activity in march. so so sorry for the ot.

Belle unfortunately, no -one seems to be able to find that statement from Lee.

However, I think March/April are very important. I think things were coming to a head. I think Cindy, if only briefly was prepared to confront her parasitic daughter. I also think Cindy made it clear that Caylee was her priority and if necessary, she would go through the courts to get custody.

If we believe Riccardo...... from mid Feb till mid April. Caylee was spending 4-5 nights a week at his place. In April, ICA sinks to a new low by stealing from her grandfather's assisted living account. Cindy is seeing a counsellor.

Also in April, neighbour Gene Couty witnesses the first fight between Cindy and Casey. Wonder if around this time George followed ICA in Cindy's truck.
Weren't those fake emails from work produced in April also? Was ICA worried her parents were going to check up with Universal. Was she about to be busted?

I think ICA probably towed the Cindy line for a few weeks, but she had a hankering to go to Puerto Rico and by the end of May she has met the new love interest Tony. ICA is back to her old ways, she's hacking into her mother's accounts. One can only imagine the tension in that house and the resentment levelled at an innocent baby girl by her own mother.
 
belle, not OT at all, and don't be sorry! WSers have found so many significant links while filling in the blanks--and I too wonder about March, did KC vanish with Caylee for some time? Will have to go back through the pings and whatnot...

But overall, I don't think that the altercation the night of June 15 had to be about money in order for it to prompt KC to kill Caylee. I really suspect it had more to do with the drive to and from Mt. Dora, and Caylee telling CiCi what her life was like with KC. And even then--IMO that fight could have been about anything. And once CA and KC went at it, I bet there was no past wrongdoing that was off-limits for CA to throw at KC, no matter how long ago. The next day, KC was alone with Caylee, and Caylee was bugging her, and KC chose to very permanently shut her up. :cow:

As for events around Nov. 2008--having read all these timelines, I am even more convinced that CA *knew* Caylee was dead, *knew* KC did it, and *knew* about the duct tape or some other evidence that it was murder, during her "silent" interview.

(Wonder if the State will be able to question CA or GA about that interview at trial?)

Re March 2008 - Thank you, this is the first thing to make sense to me re Lee's question "Is this like last time? CA pizzed off ICA - so she and Caylee camped out with Ricardo. IIRC he said at the beginning of the year. But for a boy who had many of his ''facts'' off just a little - March would be close.

March is also when the friends began making plans for their vacation together, CA already having scheduled her vacay for ''around her BDay" in June - so there was no one to keep Caylee. This seemed to cause some stress in the relationship too, ICA went on a spending spree with her mom's (and granny's) money.

Yes, yes, yes. I do believe CA *KNEW*, whether the silent interview was during the time when she ''found out'', was just getting new details or she was trying out a new medication regime that had her almost comatose, IDK but I believe she knew!
 
Belle unfortunately, no -one seems to be able to find that statement from Lee.

However, I think March/April are very important. I think things were coming to a head. I think Cindy, if only briefly was prepared to confront her parasitic daughter. I also think Cindy made it clear that Caylee was her priority and if necessary, she would go through the courts to get custody.

If we believe Riccardo...... from mid Feb till mid April. Caylee was spending 4-5 nights a week at his place. In April, ICA sinks to a new low by stealing from her grandfather's assisted living account. Cindy is seeing a counsellor.

Also in April, neighbour Gene Couty witnesses the first fight between Cindy and Casey. Wonder if around this time George followed ICA in Cindy's truck.
Weren't those fake emails from work produced in April also? Was ICA worried her parents were going to check up with Universal. Was she about to be busted?

I think ICA probably towed the Cindy line for a few weeks, but she had a hankering to go to Puerto Rico and by the end of May she has met the new love interest Tony. ICA is back to her old ways, she's hacking into her mother's accounts. One can only imagine the tension in that house and the resentment levelled at an innocent baby girl by her own mother.


Lee said that during a Jail visit. I don't know if those are still available for anyone that hasn't seen them.
 
Re: the March/April timeline - When was it that CA saw the counselor for a couple of visits?

(She refused to attend anymore sessions because the counselor advised her to cut KC loose)
 
Lee said that during a Jail visit. I don't know if those are still available for anyone that hasn't seen them.

Not that long ago there was a massive search for that audio/video. No one could find it. I don't believe it is available on any of the media websites any longer and we couldn't find anyone who had downloaded it. :(
 
I know this is ot, but it just occurred to me. remember when lee said "is this like last time" and we were racking our brains trying to figure it out. The other month where things got crazy was march of 2008, when casey ran through cindys money and then all of a sudden it stopped. Could casey have pulled this whole im taking caylee bit on her before, like when cindy put the brakes on her money bonanza. Did she disappear in march with caylee? looking at all the events in november just made me remember the flurry of activity in march. so so sorry for the ot.

This makes a lot of sense. Combine that with Casey telling Lee that she is spiteful biotch.
 
Re: the March/April timeline - When was it that CA saw the counselor for a couple of visits?

(She refused to attend anymore sessions because the counselor advised her to cut KC loose)

That could be reason for the argument between Casey and Cindy on the 15th. Maybe Cindy told Casey she had to get out to see her reaction. It's possible that Cindy thought the threats alone would make Casey straighten up.
 
Re March 2008 - Thank you, this is the first thing to make sense to me re Lee's question "Is this like last time? CA pizzed off ICA - so she and Caylee camped out with Ricardo. IIRC he said at the beginning of the year. But for a boy who had many of his ''facts'' off just a little - March would be close.

March is also when the friends began making plans for their vacation together, CA already having scheduled her vacay for ''around her BDay" in June - so there was no one to keep Caylee. This seemed to cause some stress in the relationship too, ICA went on a spending spree with her mom's (and granny's) money.

Yes, yes, yes. I do believe CA *KNEW*, whether the silent interview was during the time when she ''found out'', was just getting new details or she was trying out a new medication regime that had her almost comatose, IDK but I believe she knew!

But wasn't this what Lee said to CA and ICA in the bedroom, when he found out Caylee was missing? He said is this like the last time. If ICA and Caylee hung out at Ricardo's until the dust settled, it couldn't have been that "last time" Lee was asking about. Could it? Because they were both missing that time, not just Caylee.
 
Not that long ago there was a massive search for that audio/video. No one could find it. I don't believe it is available on any of the media websites any longer and we couldn't find anyone who had downloaded it. :(

That was one of the few LA recordings I listened to (usually just read the transcript), I can still hear him, he sounded very unconcerned at that point - very matter of fact (no nervous giggles). To Lee, this was just ICA, being ICA.

IIRC this was when they went on to discuss her "other" phone and JBPark as a place ''to look''.
 
But wasn't this what Lee said to CA and ICA in the bedroom, when he found out Caylee was missing? He said is this like the last time. If ICA and Caylee hung out at Ricardo's until the dust settled, it couldn't have been that "last time" Lee was asking about. Could it? Because they were both missing that time, not just Caylee.

No, that was a jail house recording... Lee asks ICA 'Was this like last time' to which she answered in an affirmative IIRC (don't remember if it was more than just "Yes"). But remember up until CA brought ICA home, they were both missing.

Lee went into LE mode on her in the bedroom and he never said what she replied to his questions about Caylee being missing except "Mom said I'm a bad mother blah blah'' and "Maybe I'm just a spiteful b!tch!" - remember ICA and CA started counterproductive fighting or sniping at each other while he was trying to play cop, then the cops showed up and Lee was put on hold until the jail visit.

When that recording first came out, people here (and other places) went nutz talking about another lost child etc... That made no sense to me, but if Lee was referring to ICA taking off with Caylee, that makes sense. Of course this time her boyfriend wasn't being accommodating to her circumstances, so she fixed that!
 
Not that long ago there was a massive search for that audio/video. No one could find it. I don't believe it is available on any of the media websites any longer and we couldn't find anyone who had downloaded it. :(

These visits from Lee?
July 25th
http://www.wftv.com/video/18212491/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/18212494/index.html (starts out talking about areas and places)
http://www.wftv.com/video/18212521/index.html (really had phone)


JULY 28th
http://www.wftv.com/video/18206783/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/18206946/index.html
 

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