2009.09.30 Baez Motions-the missing Memos of Law/Exhibits

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and here's another one by Essies, also respectfully copied::blushing:
Snipped from article:
WFTV legal analyst Bill Scheaffer asked: "What are the statistical chances that those three pieces of duct tape did not come from the same source roll, that roll belonging to the Anthonys?"

Sheaffer said those similarities will be obvious to a jury. This evening, Belich reported that the defense "would not respond to anything that hasn't been entered as evidence in the case."
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...wftv-wesh-rebut-defense-team-on-evidence.html

I completely agree with Sheaffer. When you look at those pieces of tape they do look the same. But the FBI's report stating they are NOT consistent sure gives the defense an opportunity to introduce some doubt.
 
But hasn't it already been stated that this is all explanable due to the weathering and erosion? The fibers are gone from the tape on Caylee's skull because they were outdoors, under water, in hurricanes, etc. and are therefore not exactly matching the brand new duct tape from the A's? There is a lot of talk in the duct tape match thread, and this may be better off over there, too.:blowkiss:
 
Please see JWG's post in the duct tape match thread...respectfully copied, JWG

When ace reporter Tony Pipitone aired a report on the rarity of the duct tape, he noted that the chances of finding two pieces of this tape linked to the Anthony case is 1 in 250,000. With this latest revelation, that linkage becomes (drum roll please):

1 in 125 million

Would be nice if another news outlet can find a fourth piece on a different poster to bring the odds to 1 in 63 billion, just for fun.

BTW...I finished watching the video news report on this latest find, and noticed that the poster with the duct tape was hung outside. It occurred to me that it is likely that GA / CA used the duct tape in situations where posters were exposed to wind and the elements, but that they did not use the duct tape to hang posters on their doors. Just tossing that out there.

Unfortunately, Pipitone's statistics are trumped by an FBI forensic report that states the two pieces of duct tape are not consistent to have come from the same roll.

I mean, seriously. The jury is not going to get watch Pipitone throw out statistics. The SA may - but they will still have the statement in the FBI forensic report to contend with.
 
But hasn't it already been stated that this is all explanable due to the weathering and erosion? The fibers are gone from the tape on Caylee's skull because they were outdoors, under water, in hurricanes, etc. and are therefore not exactly matching the brand new duct tape from the A's? There is a lot of talk in the duct tape match thread, and this may be better off over there, too.:blowkiss:

I agreed with that sentiment when it was just BC talking about this. But now that the forensic report is posted here, and I've read it, the problem is that the report leaves no wiggle room. They do not caveat their statement with "this could be due to weathering". They outright state the separate pieces of duct tape are not consistent to have come from the same roll.
 
Caylee wasn't particularly vulnerable due to her familial relationship (p. 10)? With what we know now? You've got to be kidding me? She may have been safe with her grandparents...but considering no one knows what Casey did when she was alone on a daily basis with Caylee (with perhaps the exception that she talked A LOT or texted A LOT on the phone)...and the one time she is away with the child she "disappears"...I think it can be established that the child was no doubt vulnerable with her mother. I also have a strong suspicion that Caylee had been "lost" before.


There's that one comment, made by Lee, which I think he made on July 15, 2008 when he learned about Caylee being missing. He said, "Is this like that other time." I know that phrase has been dissected here, but with so much happening in this case over the last 14 months, I can't remember all the specifics. But that phrase sticks out - "Is this like like that other time."

It leads one to think that at some previous time, Casey lost Caylee. Perhaps she was shopping at a mall and left Caylee behind in a store, while she left and went to another store?

Cindy had sought counseling and had been advised by the counselor to seek custody of Caylee. There had to have been a basis for a counselor to suggest Cindy seeking custody..........a pattern of behavior on Casey's part that made her unfit to retain custody of her child.
 
Val, I have yet to read what MusikMan posted... so now there is a document stating the complete opposite about the duct tape? Now I'm really confused.
Which is it? I mean.. we have one report stating the tape is chemically similar, therefore it probably came from the same roll..... and this one says no?

Forget it. I'm done worrying about the duct tape. I'll go by what you fine WS's find out, and wait ti'll trial to see what the SA says. :waitasec:
This is all giving me a headache. I give up!
 
Val, I have yet to read what MusikMan posted... so now there is a document stating the complete opposite about the duct tape? Now I'm really confused.
Which is it? I mean.. we have one report stating the tape is chemically similar, therefore it probably came from the same roll..... and this one says no?

Forget it. I'm done worrying about the duct tape. I'll go by what you fine WS's find out, and wait ti'll trial to see what the SA says. :waitasec:
This is all giving me a headache. I give up!

Basically, we have two FBI statements from two separate tests. The first statement had to do with the adhesive. It stated that the two pieces of duct tape (crime scene vs gas can) had similar adhesive indicative of either being in the same production run or maybe even the same roll.

Then we have the FBI statement from tests of the fibers (cloth) part of the duct tape. Their statement there is that the fibers are microscopically different (and they do not qualify that statement based on environment, etc.) and do not appear to be from the same roll.

Now, that means the tape can be from the same production run.

IF GA had more than one roll and it was bought in a two-pack (which wouldn't be out of the question) - that could explain the two findings and still tie it back to the Anthony home.
 
I agreed with that sentiment when it was just BC talking about this. But now that the forensic report is posted here, and I've read it, the problem is that the report leaves no wiggle room. They do not caveat their statement with "this could be due to weathering". They outright state the separate pieces of duct tape are not consistent to have come from the same roll.

BBM. I think that would call for speculation and forensics usually only report a result.
 
Basically, we have two FBI statements from two separate tests. The first statement had to do with the adhesive. It stated that the two pieces of duct tape (crime scene vs gas can) had similar adhesive indicative of either being in the same production run or maybe even the same roll.

Then we have the FBI statement from tests of the fibers (cloth) part of the duct tape. Their statement there is that the fibers are microscopically different (and they do not qualify that statement based on environment, etc.) and do not appear to be from the same roll.

Now, that means the tape can be from the same production run.

IF GA had more than one roll and it was bought in a two-pack (which wouldn't be out of the question) - that could explain the two findings and still tie it back to the Anthony home.

BBM -- I agree that it could not be from same roll, but same production run. Perhaps no one in the Anthony family bought the tape, but one of them "took" the tape from their place of employment. A roll here, another roll there (like taking home a pen or note pad--it happens). Both rolls end up in the A's home...one in kitchen drawer another in the garage or shed. Just a possibility and something to ponder. Not saying this happened, but is a possibility. LE may have already checked with the employers to see if they had this brand of tape on premises.
 
I agreed with that sentiment when it was just BC talking about this. But now that the forensic report is posted here, and I've read it, the problem is that the report leaves no wiggle room. They do not caveat their statement with "this could be due to weathering". They outright state the separate pieces of duct tape are not consistent to have come from the same roll.

Yes but aren't there two other studies that show other parts of the tape, such as the glue are in fact identicle, so would have come from the same batch of manufacture?

That couples with the recent video of George hanging missing posters using identically marked tape is a pretty good indication that there were one or more rolls of that stuff in play around the A household. Given that it was a fairly unusual variant of duct tape, I think the chances of some third party using an almost exact match on Caylee is well outside the possibilities of reasonable.
 
Please see JWG's post in the duct tape match thread...respectfully copied, JWG

When ace reporter Tony Pipitone aired a report on the rarity of the duct tape, he noted that the chances of finding two pieces of this tape linked to the Anthony case is 1 in 250,000. With this latest revelation, that linkage becomes (drum roll please):

1 in 125 million

Would be nice if another news outlet can find a fourth piece on a different poster to bring the odds to 1 in 63 billion, just for fun.

BTW...I finished watching the video news report on this latest find, and noticed that the poster with the duct tape was hung outside. It occurred to me that it is likely that GA / CA used the duct tape in situations where posters were exposed to wind and the elements, but that they did not use the duct tape to hang posters on their doors. Just tossing that out there.

FWIW - I seem to recall seeing the Caylee poster hanging on the A's entry door had duct tape attached. The reason I remember the tape is because a poster made a comment that it was so tacky looking. Perhaps the folks could check to see if they have shots they can close in on.?? Just a thought.
 
I think until I see the final, final reports I'm going to lay off the duct tape evidence LOL. Seeing 3 Henkel logo's on three different things related to the A-fam, is well good enough for me at this point.

ETA..it appears duct tape is being talked about on every single thread lol.
 
Basically, we have two FBI statements from two separate tests. The first statement had to do with the adhesive. It stated that the two pieces of duct tape (crime scene vs gas can) had similar adhesive indicative of either being in the same production run or maybe even the same roll.

Then we have the FBI statement from tests of the fibers (cloth) part of the duct tape. Their statement there is that the fibers are microscopically different (and they do not qualify that statement based on environment, etc.) and do not appear to be from the same roll.

Now, that means the tape can be from the same production run.

IF GA had more than one roll and it was bought in a two-pack (which wouldn't be out of the question) - that could explain the two findings and still tie it back to the Anthony home.

Thanks for the explanation. Having the same adhesive chemical qualities is one thing (for all we know, many types of duct tape adhesive could be chemically similar. does that make sense?) It's another thing to have different fibers all together. Not just different looking due to stretching, wear and tear, or being exposed to the elements. I gotcha.

After this post and after reading the document MM posted... I'm laying off the duct tape until trial:crazy: and will continue to focus on other aspects of the case. Thanks again Val.
 
orl-caylee-anthonypics-photos,0,5614814.photogallery


Don't know if this'll work, but trying to post a pic of the Anthony home posters.....I don't see duct tape, tho.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-caylee-anthonypics-photos,0,5614814.photogallery

Photo #70 btw. See also #89 and #90, *97, #123.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...me-scene-photos-121808,0,7133183.photogallery

Here's another good photo #58 at the above link.
 
I recognize that the inability to definitively state that both samples came from the same roll could be of benefit to the defense. When giving testimony regarding forensics, the opposing party is always going to "force" for lack of a better word one to state that "nothing is 100%" and that there is always a margin of error. Realistically, NOTHING is a 100%. Is it a statistical improbability? Sure, but each side is going to use it to their own advantage. SO, as much as the defense will argue the tape issue as evidence that their is no match...there is no way to argue that point to 100% accuracy. The SA will be able to cross "forcing" the expert to state that it can NOT be ruled out with 100% certainly. There is always wiggle room. It may be slight, but it exists....the key is how each side argues the point. If this tape issue were turned around.....the defense would have a number of experts doing the same thing. One can never re-create an environment that is a 100% match during testing. There are variables that just can't be manipulated because they just don't know what that tape was exposed to at what time. I doubt that this trial will come down to a piece of tape when there is far more to consider.
 
BBM -- I agree that it could not be from same roll, but same production run. Perhaps no one in the Anthony family bought the tape, but one of them "took" the tape from their place of employment. A roll here, another roll there (like taking home a pen or note pad--it happens). Both rolls end up in the A's home...one in kitchen drawer another in the garage or shed. Just a possibility and something to ponder. Not saying this happened, but is a possibility. LE may have already checked with the employers to see if they had this brand of tape on premises.

SHWIIIING! *pop*

George was working as a security guard for the logistics materials center warehouse on Pershing for the Orlando Utilities Commission:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3815650&postcount=358"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - George/Lexus & Casey's Contact Pattern[/ame]

QUICK! Some one get hold of Yuri and ask him to see if the OUC Pershing warehouse stocks Henkle 200 F duck tape and has come up missing on a couple of rolls in the period that George worked there!
 
OMG......maybe Kathi B can get on that. She would LOVE to be the one to uncover that dirt.
 
Well, they may not have been from the same roll, but if they are found to all be Henkel tape, I'd say that is mighty coinkidental. Also, someone on here earlier mentioned buying duct tape in six packs. It's certainly possible that whoever bought this tape bought more than one roll.

The fact it is manufactured in OH, where the Anthonys are from, and it does fairly well in some adverse conditions, including heat, might be useful. If it was commonly sold in OH, then GA may have been drawn to purchasing it in FL if he saw it in a store. People often travel with the same buying habits.

The fact the tape is relatively rare (and unless all of their neighbors on Hopespring use it or anyone else KC knows has it), I'd think it would still be circumstantially significant that it is fairly uncommon and that it appears multiple times at the Anthony home (versus in some Imaginanny's apartment) or in pictures. Although the tape doesn't match the roll, the fact that, IIRC, the duct tape on Caylee was still said to be Henkel should also be significant. I hope the jury isn't talked into drinking the CSI Effect Koolaid and insist that every piece of evidence be a forensic expert's wet dream. I doubt that ever happens.
 
Well, they may not have been from the same roll, but if they are found to all be Henkel tape, I'd say that is mighty coinkidental. Also, someone on here earlier mentioned buying duct tape in six packs. It's certainly possible that whoever bought this tape bought more than one roll.

The fact it is manufactured in OH, where the Anthonys are from, and it does fairly well in some adverse conditions, including heat, might be useful. If it was commonly sold in OH, then GA may have been drawn to purchasing it in FL if he saw it in a store. People often travel with the same buying habits.

The fact the tape is relatively rare (and unless all of their neighbors on Hopespring use it or anyone else KC knows has it), I'd think it would still be circumstantially significant that it is fairly uncommon and that it appears multiple times at the Anthony home (versus in some Imaginanny's apartment) or in pictures. Although the tape doesn't match the roll, the fact that, IIRC, the duct tape on Caylee was still said to be Henkel should also be significant. I hope the jury isn't talked into drinking the CSI Effect Koolaid and insist that every piece of evidence be a forensic expert's wet dream. I doubt that ever happens.

BBM
Except in JB's dreams.
 
Inasmuch as I realize that this is off topic, it was kinda mind blowing reading it again so many months later.....s/b good for a laugh, ws'ers :crazy:

Cindy: So come on folks, someone needs to start listening to my daughter and if it is not the local authorities, will the FBI please get involved in this case and come and interview my daughter like she has been requesting." :liar::bang::boohoo::sick:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24089403-2,00.html from the Early Show.
 
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