2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

BondJamesBond

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OK, everyone. I unapproved some OT posts until I get time to move them to the proper threads. If you're missing one, it'll show up sometime later today.
 

TallyHo

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Bond - I'm fashionably late to this party, but just had to thank you (and everyone else) for your hard work on this thread! I pray that the SA's experts will be able to lay this out in picture form just like you did for the jury. It's just awful to look at, but if that is truly what Casey did, it needs to be brought to light!! I am pretty well convinced that there are only 2 options left on the table - either to intentionally cause death (not sure even she could be that "stoopid", but I do admit I could be wrong on that!) or as a mask to keep her from seeing Caylee's dead face. (Could even have been a combination of both of those!!!)
 

notthatsmart

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When was the Caylee memorial put down there? Was it before Dec 11th? Wonder if there are any photos of the memorial with duct tape.
 

AZlawyer

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When was the Caylee memorial put down there? Was it before Dec 11th? Wonder if there are any photos of the memorial with duct tape.

I think the point of the memorial was that it was placed where Caylee's body was found, so it must have been after December 11.
 

SleuthTheTruth

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When was the Caylee memorial put down there? Was it before Dec 11th? Wonder if there are any photos of the memorial with duct tape.


The Caylee Memorial was started AFTER the dumpsite was released from CSI/LE. NO Duct Tape was on ANY posters from ANY of the people that visited and actually cared about a 2 year old that was murdered and dumped like trash in that area. The ONLY posters that had the “Same Kind of Duct Tape” on them as were found on Caylee, were the ones that George and Cindy posted at their “Help Find a MISSING Caylee” site. Some other dude did NOT murder Caylee and dump her, HMDI = Her Mother Did It.
 

AZlawyer

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After scrutinizing the high-def, blown up photos, I think Q63-Q64-Q104 is a matched sequence. However, neither Q62 nor Q66 can go in front of this sequence. I suppose either Q62 or Q66 could go after Q104, given the damage to that end of Q104, but then whichever one you pick, the other one can't go after that (i.e., Q62-Q66 and Q66-Q62 both don't work). So at some point a piece got used on something else or thrown away (e.g., if it got stuck to itself).

If we want to keep things as simple as possible (1 missing piece rather than 2 or more), we should assume Q63-Q64-Q104-Q62[orQ66]-Missing Piece (MP)--Q66[or Q62]. Given that Q64 was clearly placed before Q63, we should actually assume the reverse: Q66/62-MP-Q62/66-Q104-Q64-Q63. It seems pretty unlikely that Casey placed the gas can tape somewhere in the middle of taping up Caylee's face. So let's say Q66 (gas can)-MP-Q62-Q104-Q64-Q63.

Now, Casey didn't have the gas can as far as we know until June 23, and presumably taped Caylee's face before that (pre-death by June 16 or very very early in decomp process, i.e., immediately thereafter). So perhaps George put the tape on the gas can after all, even if he described it as a "sloppy job" (which it wasn't). If George ALWAYS kept tape on that vent, as he says, then presumably there was already a piece there when Casey picked it up on June 23.

I wish I had a better description of where Q62 was on the skull. I think if it were on top of (and especially if it were underneath) Q64-Q63, it would have had the same big bulge seen in those pieces, and probably would have been removed and photographed as a "set" like they were. My guess, based on the flatness and longer length of that piece, is that it went from ear to ear across the nose. :( On a small skull with no nose, that positioning could easily be described as being in the "mouth area" as reported at the scene, and also as being over the "nasal apertures" as reported by the ME.

The missing piece could have been another piece used by George before Casey used the tape. However, isn't it kind of odd that the mouth pieces (Q64-Q63) are LAST in the sequence above? Whether you are shutting up a live child or stemming decomp fluids from a dead child, I would think the mouth would be the first place to be taped. So I would suggest another possibility: perhaps George placed Q66 on the gas can, then Casey placed Missing Piece over Caylee's mouth and Q62 over her nose, then Casey came back and found out that Caylee had managed to remove/chew at/scrunch up Missing Piece so she could breathe, then Casey tossed Missing Piece and used Q104 around Caylee's forearms to stop her from doing that anymore, Q64 on her mouth, and Q63 diagonally and partway under her chin to keep her from moving her jaw and breathing around the edges of the tape. :furious: This would be consistent with the "fringe hairs" and possible T-shirt fibers on Q104.

But again, the chloroform lurks in the background with no clear role to play...

Which WS member was it who had a roll of The Tape? Perhaps he/she could tell us which way the logos face coming off the roll? If the tape rolls off "logo first" rather than "text first," then Q63 would have to come before Q64, in which case I would assume all the pieces were removed and lined up someone before application, since Q64 ended up under Q63 on the skull.
 

AZlawyer

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After scrutinizing the high-def, blown up photos, I think Q63-Q64-Q104 is a matched sequence. However, neither Q62 nor Q66 can go in front of this sequence. I suppose either Q62 or Q66 could go after Q104, given the damage to that end of Q104, but then whichever one you pick, the other one can't go after that (i.e., Q62-Q66 and Q66-Q62 both don't work). So at some point a piece got used on something else or thrown away (e.g., if it got stuck to itself).

If we want to keep things as simple as possible (1 missing piece rather than 2 or more), we should assume Q63-Q64-Q104-Q62[orQ66]-Missing Piece (MP)--Q66[or Q62]. Given that Q64 was clearly placed before Q63, we should actually assume the reverse: Q66/62-MP-Q62/66-Q104-Q64-Q63. It seems pretty unlikely that Casey placed the gas can tape somewhere in the middle of taping up Caylee's face. So let's say Q66 (gas can)-MP-Q62-Q104-Q64-Q63.

Now, Casey didn't have the gas can as far as we know until June 23, and presumably taped Caylee's face before that (pre-death by June 16 or very very early in decomp process, i.e., immediately thereafter). So perhaps George put the tape on the gas can after all, even if he described it as a "sloppy job" (which it wasn't). If George ALWAYS kept tape on that vent, as he says, then presumably there was already a piece there when Casey picked it up on June 23.

I wish I had a better description of where Q62 was on the skull. I think if it were on top of (and especially if it were underneath) Q64-Q63, it would have had the same big bulge seen in those pieces, and probably would have been removed and photographed as a "set" like they were. My guess, based on the flatness and longer length of that piece, is that it went from ear to ear across the nose. :( On a small skull with no nose, that positioning could easily be described as being in the "mouth area" as reported at the scene, and also as being over the "nasal apertures" as reported by the ME.

The missing piece could have been another piece used by George before Casey used the tape. However, isn't it kind of odd that the mouth pieces (Q64-Q63) are LAST in the sequence above? Whether you are shutting up a live child or stemming decomp fluids from a dead child, I would think the mouth would be the first place to be taped. So I would suggest another possibility: perhaps George placed Q66 on the gas can, then Casey placed Missing Piece over Caylee's mouth and Q62 over her nose, then Casey came back and found out that Caylee had managed to remove/chew at/scrunch up Missing Piece so she could breathe, then Casey tossed Missing Piece and used Q104 around Caylee's forearms to stop her from doing that anymore, Q64 on her mouth, and Q63 diagonally and partway under her chin to keep her from moving her jaw and breathing around the edges of the tape. :furious: This would be consistent with the "fringe hairs" and possible T-shirt fibers on Q104.

But again, the chloroform lurks in the background with no clear role to play...

Which WS member was it who had a roll of The Tape? Perhaps he/she could tell us which way the logos face coming off the roll? If the tape rolls off "logo first" rather than "text first," then Q63 would have to come before Q64, in which case I would assume all the pieces were removed and lined up someone before application, since Q64 ended up under Q63 on the skull.

Quoting myself, sorry. Here's a possibility for the chloroform: perhaps Casey used the chloroform first (on the blanket, e.g.), thought the chloroform would keep Caylee knocked out long enough for the duct tape to "work," and was surprised when she returned to find Caylee struggling with the tape and breathing. Then on to step 2 as set forth above, with physical restraint (Q104) rather than (or in addition to) chemical restraint (chloroform).
 

beach

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If the tape rolls off "logo first" rather than "text first," then Q63 would have to come before Q64, in which case I would assume all the pieces were removed and lined up someone before application, since Q64 ended up under Q63 on the skull.


I swear I saw a pic - front view of a roll somewhere while googling around last week, but I can't find it now. The only ones I can find are side-views or packaged views.

Don't know if this will help at all, but I did find this 'clean' pic and although it is not still on the roll, it seems logical to me that the writing would appear 'forward facing' - readable, as one would be unrolling it - IOW, text first. I mean, just from a marketing viewpoint it would make sense to me.
Yeah, yeah...I know. Not a lot makes sense in this case, but anyway, fwiw -

henkel_duct_tape.jpg


Short on time right now, but I will try to go through my history tonight to see if I can find that pic I know I saw...if no one else can find a pic or comes forward with a roll to tell us.
 

Trapshooter

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SleuthTheTruth if my eyes don't deceive me, isn't that the Henkel logo on that tape?
 

SleuthTheTruth

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SleuthTheTruth if my eyes don't deceive me, isn't that the Henkel logo on that tape?

Trapshooter, your eyes are seeing it right. That is a picture of Henkel Duct Tape on a poster taken by WFTV at George and Cindy’s help find a missing Caylee site.
 

thedeviledadvocate

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Just an observation, if there was tape over the eyes, and the tape had been applied before Caylee’s demise, then JA’s scenario of Caylee looking into the eyes of her murderer would be incorrect.
 

SleuthTheTruth

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AZ, somewhere I saw a video, not sure who took it, of a roll of Henkel Duct Tape, in a plastic container that belonged to George and Cindy, sitting on a table at a help find a missing Caylee site, but I have not located it yet. It might show what you are looking for as well. I have often wondered if it is the very same roll KC used on Caylee.
 

babiesstolemydingo

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Just an observation, if there was tape over the eyes, and the tape had been applied before Caylee’s demise, then JA’s scenario of Caylee looking into the eyes of her murderer would be incorrect.

She would have seen her murderer before/as the tape was being applied.:furious:
 

Mamabear1963

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Just an observation, if there was tape over the eyes, and the tape had been applied before Caylee’s demise, then JA’s scenario of Caylee looking into the eyes of her murderer would be incorrect.


Actually, if Caylee, I don't know if I can actually type this...why should anyone have to even think this...was bound...and duct tape applied...she would be looking at whoever was putting the duct tape on...and her last visual would be watching the murdering put the duct tape over her eyes before everything went black....

Off to try and read something...sing...something...poor Caylee, rest is sweet peace now my love
 

SleuthTheTruth

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Just an observation, if there was tape over the eyes, and the tape had been applied before Caylee’s demise, then JA’s scenario of Caylee looking into the eyes of her murderer would be incorrect.

Or, Caylee was awake and saw KC place the tape over her eyes, than JA would be right.
 

notthatsmart

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The Jb interview was closed due to off topic post, however it may be appropriate here. The interesting part to me, and I take anything the defense says very seriously, is that Jb was coming out of a death penalty hearing and Kb asked him a completely off topic question about the duct tape. Why is the duct tape suddenly important to Kb? Jb reitterated that they are going to dispute the location of the duct tape as was said on 48 hours. He said that police officers theories are not accepted as established fact. Furthermore, he went on to say that he cannot comment on sealed documents and photos. This one raised my meter. Always wondered why Csi Bloise and Steve Hansons reports were missing. I do wonder if the disqualified Judge sealed those documents/reports due to how graphic they were in nature. Thank you JB and KB. We now know it is the defense strategy to dispute the location of the duct tape and that they do not agree with the police officers theories, and that now we know that the disqualified Judge sealed very important documents. My interpretation, My opinion.
 
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