2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

[MissJames]

Thank you for that information. So, we wont get his take until trial. Csi Welch and Supervisor Mears stated that Hanson took photos. I do not understand why some can consider it work product and others clearly just write a report. I think he should have written a report like most did. He moved the log, he collected the remains and evidence, he cut and tied back vines. His report would be very helpful in finding the truth. I hope he doesn't throw away his bench notes like the evidence garage guy did. Thank you for letting me know this.

The defense can depose him .It's what they are supposed to do to find out what he has to say about the duct tape and anything else he worked on.He would be under oath and it would be on the record.

 

[RainyGirl]

hey guys

I am sitting on my hands. Truthfully. And, boy do I ever understand the temptation to respond to OT...uh... chit-chat. <pun intended>

However, this thread is near and dear to me --- almost sacred. :angel:
I honestly feel that this thread contains some of the best work ever done by Ws'ers as far as leading us down the path to finding out what really happened to precious 2 1/2 yr. old Caylee, whom we all have grown to love.

I am certainly no mod, just someone who cares alot about protecting the integrity of this thread. So, I would much appreciate it if we can try not to 'contaminate the scene', so to speak. That never seems to work out well for LE, and I doubt it will for us either, IFYKWIM.

Sorry if I am coming across as bossy, I don't mean to. I just really want to respect the hard work that so many people have invested.

The thanks button was just not enough! YOU are one of my WS HEROS.
With love and respect from this victim's advocate (all the way from training to over 40 cases and counting.....over 10 years, thousands and thousands of hours, 100% unpaid civic volunteer and will never, ever cease to help the victims of crime)!!!!

 

[SleuthTheTruth]

Is 1:12 ish the roll you are thinking of? http://www.clickorlando.com/video/22584510/index.html

Yes, Yes, Yes...You Rock!!!

Makes you just want to reach in and get the duct tape and have it checked out.

 

[beach]

Now, that my mind is a teeny-bit fresher and I have had a chance to study your posts - thank you soooo much for your observations and the time you have put into this! The process of elimination will eventually get us there.


--all quotes respectfully snipped

So I would suggest another possibility: perhaps George placed Q66 on the gas can, then Casey placed Missing Piece over Caylee's mouth and Q62 over her nose, then Casey came back and found out that Caylee had managed to remove/chew at/scrunch up Missing Piece so she could breathe, then Casey tossed Missing Piece and used Q104 around Caylee's forearms to stop her from doing that anymore, Q64 on her mouth, and Q63 diagonally and partway under her chin to keep her from moving her jaw and breathing around the edges of the tape. :furious: This would be consistent with the "fringe hairs" and possible T-shirt fibers on Q104.

At first, it was my mindset that she 'ripped-placed, ripped-placed, ripped-placed' etc...however, after considering your very astute hypothesis and other posters' experiences, my mind is wide-open that if she did come back to find Caylee had thwarted her plans cry: x 100), at that point she likely tore the rest of the pieces at one time. I mean, after all, even KC could see at that point that she was going to need MORE tape to finish off her mission. (omg, i never use the word 'hate', but it is dangerously close to rolling off of my tongue right now :furious

I wish I had a better description of where Q62 was on the skull. I think if it were on top of (and especially if it were underneath) Q64-Q63, it would have had the same big bulge seen in those pieces, and probably would have been removed and photographed as a "set" like they were. My guess, based on the flatness and longer length of that piece, is that it went from ear to ear across the nose. On a small skull with no nose, that positioning could easily be described as being in the "mouth area" as reported at the scene, and also as being over the "nasal apertures" as reported by the ME.

I asked Bond this privately a while ago, but I'm gonna put it out here for input - It makes logical sense that the evidence (Q#'s) were assigned in sequence, as the ME removed the tape (e.g., Q62 would be removed before Q63, Q64, etc...). I briefly re-read the autopsy report to see if it shed any light, but found nothing specific to substantiate that. (Maybe there is another report that I missed. :waitasec: ) So, I assume, but don't really know if Q62 would have been removed first. IOW, that doesn't mean at all that Q62 had to be on top of the tangled Q63/Q64 pieces, but it was probably removed first from some place on Caylee's face. Does that make sense?

 

[Harmony 2]

Is 1:12 ish the roll you are thinking of? http://www.clickorlando.com/video/22584510/index.html

Here is a printscreen of it:

 

[ecs5298]

Just wanted to duck in and say you are all doing a great job on this!

Kudos to you sleuthers!

 

[Harmony 2]

I remember on another thread 6stringer mentioned he had a roll of Henkel duct tape. I wonder if he could tell us about the specifics.

 

[logicalgirl]

Now, that my mind is a teeny-bit fresher and I have had a chance to study your posts - thank you soooo much for your observations and the time you have put into this! The process of elimination will eventually get us there.


--all quotes respectfully snipped




At first, it was my mindset that she 'ripped-placed, ripped-placed, ripped-placed' etc...however, after considering your very astute hypothesis and other posters' experiences, my mind is wide-open that if she did come back to find Caylee had thwarted her plans cry: x 100), at that point she likely tore the rest of the pieces at one time. I mean, after all, even KC could see at that point that she was going to need MORE tape to finish off her mission. (omg, i never use the word 'hate', but it is dangerously close to rolling off of my tongue right now :furious





I asked Bond this privately a while ago, but I'm gonna put it out here for input - It makes logical sense that the evidence (Q#'s) were assigned in sequence, as the ME removed the tape (e.g., Q62 would be removed before Q63, Q64, etc...). I briefly re-read the autopsy report to see if it shed any light, but found nothing specific to substantiate that. (Maybe there is another report that I missed. :waitasec: ) So, I assume, but don't really know if Q62 would have been removed first. IOW, that doesn't mean at all that Q62 had to be on top of the tangled Q63/Q64 pieces, but it was probably removed first from some place on Caylee's face. Does that make sense?

Yes Beach! When I suggested ICA tore them all off at once, I wasn't suggesting she did it in a calm and calculating way, but in a rage - kind a "I'll shut you up once and for all" action - like you say - Rip! Rip! Rip!

 

[beach]

Here is a printscreen of it:

That roll of tape is HUGE and much more tape left on it than I expected.
No clue why I had any expectations, though.


I only wish we could SEE the torn end!!!

:banghead:


Patience, beach....patience. I know we WILL find it.

 

[ecs5298]

That roll of tape is HUGE and much more tape left on it than I expected.
No clue why I had any expectations, though.


I only wish we could SEE the torn end!!!

:banghead:


Patience, beach....patience. I know we WILL find it.

BBM:

I wonder where the rest of that HUGE roll is now??? Surely they didn't use up all of it hanging posters.

 

[beach]

The thanks button was just not enough! YOU are one of my WS HEROS.
With love and respect from this victim's advocate (all the way from training to over 40 cases and counting.....over 10 years, thousands and thousands of hours, 100% unpaid civic volunteer and will never, ever cease to help the victims of crime)!!!!

You are wayyyy too generous and kind! :blowkiss:

I must say it is a mutual admiration because the volunteer work you do is invaluable!!! There is a special place in heaven for people like you. :hug:
From the bottom of my heart, God bless you!

 

[beach]

BBM:

I wonder where the rest of that HUGE roll is now??? Surely they didn't use up all of it hanging posters.

Now, there is some real food for thought. :innocent:

 

[AZlawyer]

Here is a printscreen of it:

Hmmm. Looking at the roll of tape on the table in that photo, it looks to me like the text under the logo is closer to the edge of the tape than it is in Q62, Q63, Q64, Q66 and Q104. Specifically, the last line of text (the "MAX TEMP" line) seems to go all the way to the edge of the tape, while on "our" roll there is space between that line and the edge of the tape (see attached photo of the back of Q62).

So...not the same roll of tape, which means we should rethink the theory that the taping of Caylee must have occurred at the house based on the fact that the roll of tape was left at the house. Instead, it looks like George had to use another roll of Henkel tape for the Caylee posters and KidFinders tent. Since it hadn't been sold for a while, perhaps he had a couple of rolls at the house.

 

[beach]

Hmmm. Looking at the roll of tape on the table in that photo, it looks to me like the text under the logo is closer to the edge of the tape than it is in Q62, Q63, Q64, Q66 and Q104. Specifically, the last line of text (the "MAX TEMP" line) seems to go all the way to the edge of the tape, while on "our" roll there is space between that line and the edge of the tape (see attached photo of the back of Q62).

So...not the same roll of tape, which means we should rethink the theory that the taping of Caylee must have occurred at the house based on the fact that the roll of tape was left at the house. Instead, it looks like George had to use another roll of Henkel tape for the Caylee posters and KidFinders tent. Since it hadn't been sold for a while, perhaps he had a couple of rolls at the house.

BBM

I have always suspected there was more than one roll ! Just from what we know about GA...I mean the stickler that he is.

That said, watch the video, AZ. If you are talking about the isolated piece on the left - when I was watching the video last night, I couldn't tell if the station super-imposed that piece.... something looked amiss about that one piece while watching it on the video.

 

[AZlawyer]

BBM

I have always suspected there was more than one roll ! Just from what we know about GA...I mean the stickler that he is.

That said, watch the video, AZ. If you are talking about the isolated piece on the left - when I was watching the video last night, I couldn't tell if the station super-imposed that piece.... something looked amiss about that one piece while watching it on the video.

No, I think the isolated piece on the left is a different photo of Henkel tape. I was talking about the roll of tape on the table in the video.

 

[beach]

No, I think the isolated piece on the left is a different photo of Henkel tape. I was talking about the roll of tape on the table in the video.

Okay...now I see exactly what you are talking about.

I'll be damned if one thing doesn't lead to another. And another. And another. iykwim


eta: I mean like exactly where is ALL this duct tape?! That roll is HUGE and I agree it doesn't match. So WTH are all these rolls???? omg...how many duct tape thread subjects could we possibly come up with?!? Only the Anthonys could make it THIS freakin' complicated. :banghead:

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...something to consider...

It stands to reason that the left-to-right alignment of the logo marking, etc. should be relatively consistent along the length of any given roll. However, IMHO, the tolerance of the left-to-right alignment is likely less than perfect and may not be the best means of determining whether or not individual segments originate from a given roll.

While I can't speak specifically to the Henkel tape, this general resource describes what I expect prolly applies to the Henkel manufacturing as well - that it is produced in large sheets (5 feet wide in this example) then subsequently cut into roll-widths.

I'd bet AZ's paycheck that the logo printing process takes place on the large sheets before they are cut due to the lower cost of bulk handling. Hence, the truing of the logo (alignment of the logo printing to the tape stock) isn't necessarily consistent along the length of the sheets. After all, we're dealing with duct tape, not wallpaper or fabric where truing the print is rather critical to the quality of the product. So...likely not laser-aligned IYKWIM.

On the other hand...the repeat pattern along the length of the tape should be relatively consistent. It could be off slightly to allow for the effect of truing...but not by much.

All :twocents:

 

[beach]

I'd bet AZ's paycheck ...

:floorlaugh:


Okay, I forgot every word you had said when I hit that part. Going back to read the rest now.

 

[beach]

There is a documentary video that Val has on her site - it walks you through the ENTIRE process of how duct tape is manufactured. (yes, I have crossed over to the dark-side and lost all my marbles...:crazy I am a bit embarrassed to say it, but it was quite interesting and very educational. That said, it wasn't a Henkel factory and didn't show logos. But it documented exactly in a video format how it is rolled, cut and packaged.

Anyway...I don't feel right linking it here w/o her permission. It can be seen at Val's site and it is an old entry (I *think* from Oct. '09 and it can be found under a title something like "The Duct Tape - Cloth #2 *not exact*)

 

[beach]

FWIW...something to consider...

It stands to reason that the left-to-right alignment of the logo marking, etc. should be relatively consistent along the length of any given roll. However, IMHO, the tolerance of the left-to-right alignment is likely less than perfect and may not be the best means of determining whether or not individual segments originate from a given roll.

While I can't speak specifically to the Henkel tape, this general resource describes what I expect prolly applies to the Henkel manufacturing as well - that it is produced in large sheets (5 feet wide in this example) then subsequently cut into roll-widths.

I'd bet AZ's paycheck that the logo printing process takes place on the large sheets before they are cut due to the lower cost of bulk handling. Hence, the truing of the logo (alignment of the logo printing to the tape stock) isn't necessarily consistent along the length of the sheets. After all, we're dealing with duct tape, not wallpaper or fabric where truing the print is rather critical to the quality of the product. So...likely not laser-aligned IYKWIM.

On the other hand...the repeat pattern along the length of the tape should be relatively consistent. It could be off slightly to allow for the effect of truing...but not by much.

All :twocents:

What you say here makes good sense. :clap:

I SO hope you are exactly correct, because the very thought of having to track down multiple rolls of Anthony owned Henkel duct tape makes me think my head might explode.