2010.11.30 - Discussion of Documents, re: Rape Allegations, TSY and LJY

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Pollywog

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I still don't get the dismemberment either - why? Why not just leave the area and hide her somewhere along the way if she was killed by the blow to the head. Why go to all this work and drama? These people are sick and just plain evil. Understanding why the step mom would do these things, but not her dad. It makes me sick to think about the things this girl may have went thru and not be able to help herself. Why are some humans just so evil? I mean raping a child is bad enough but why do they have to kill them as well. My heart hurts for this little girl as well as other children that have gone through this as well.
 

Mountain_Kat

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Bessie, Kat and Teh...I'm with all 3 of you regarding your thoughts on the alledged rape occurring at the Burke County property. Could it have occurred? Possible. But it's also possible it didn't occur, imo. This is 4th hand information. I'm taking it with a heaping dose of salt.

True or not, though, I don't for one second believe that Zahra was hit in the head, transported home to her bed, and died there as a result of those injuries. Whatever caused this precious child's death occurred right there in her bedroom, imo. And I believe the blood evidence (walls/floor/mattress) LE retrieved from the home bears witness to that.

All just MOO, of course.

ETA: I do suspect, and have suspected since early in the investigation, that sexual exploitation of Zahra may have played a factor in her death. But I'm waiting on findings from computers/ disposable camera's/ online user accounts/ etc. before jumping the gun on that theory. I don't even want those thoughts in my mind until there is a very solid reason for them to be there.
 

bellyup

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Well we found the ugly didn't we. I was afraid it was going to get worse, and the sad part is I'm not sure we are at the bottom yet.

Bessie, Kat and Teh...I'm with all 3 of you regarding your thoughts on the alledged rape occurring at the Burke County property. Could it have occurred? Possible. But it's also possible it didn't occur, imo. This is 4th hand information. I'm taking it with a heaping dose of salt.

True or not, though, I don't for one second believe that Zahra was hit in the head, transported home to her bed, and died there as a result of those injuries. Whatever caused this precious child's death occurred right there in her bedroom, imo. And I believe the blood evidence (walls/floor/mattress) LE retrieved from the home bears witness to that.

All just MOO, of course.

ETA: I do suspect, and have suspected since early in the investigation, that sexual exploitation of Zahra may have played a factor in her death. But I'm waiting on findings from computers/ disposable camera's/ online user accounts/ etc. before jumping the gun on that theory. I don't even want those thoughts in my mind until there is a very solid reason for them to be there.


One thing I question ... IIRC somewhere in all these docs / releases from Elisa.... I thought I remember reading that her accusation was that the body was dismembered in Zahra's room and that blood spatter would be found as the result of this "act" ? Does anyone else remember this or have a link to it or am I going completely crazy ?

So that could mean if the rape occurred and she was killed they then took her body to the Baker home ? (because Y's father was at the house since they were apparently staying with him) ? ? Transporting her THAT time may be the reason for the hits on the vehicles? Just speculating......

I really can't figure out where AB would have been in all of that. He wasnt alleged to have been at the home where the alleged rape occurred?

I am wondering if they were not somewhat "estranged" meaning that she did her thing and he did his ... perhaps he knew about an alleged relationship with "Sammy" and was disconnecting but since he had to work he still left Zahra in her care for the most part? What a mess for LE to sort through all of this.
 

raisincharlie

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Noon report from Jennifer Moxley

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...b-results-may-be-released-in-zahra-baker-case

TSY apparently refused to take an LDT and was questioned twice about Zahra. Where as the other claims he was questioned for 10 hours and took an LDT, which he claims to have passed.


I think I am more curious about the two remaining warrants which the DA plans on fighting to keep sealed on Dec 13th.

Some good news - perhaps lab results will be back soon and some may be shared with the public.
 

salvarenga

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I didn't mean any disrespect. In this alleged rape being a moot point, meaning how can they prosecute these slims if there is no one to give the details. Zahra can't tell what happened and I'm not sure LE would prosecute on the word of a third party...Of course they should be charged but can they with Zahra not here to tell her side...KWIM??? Unless there is evidence of this and it's exposed during the autopsy... JMHO


Justice for Zahra

I would be willing to bet that IF they recovered the torso area that they will definitely be inspecting it signs of sexual abuse and taking DNA swabs from that area.
 

salvarenga

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Noon report from Jennifer Moxley

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...b-results-may-be-released-in-zahra-baker-case

TSY apparently refused to take an LDT and was questioned twice about Zahra. Where as the other claims he was questioned for 10 hours and took an LDT, which he claims to have passed.


I think I am more curious about the two remaining warrants which the DA plans on fighting to keep sealed on Dec 13th.

Some good news - perhaps lab results will be back soon and some may be shared with the public.

Great points Raisin....

Just b/c he says he passed it doesn't mean flip to me. Now if LE comes out and announces that he passed with flying colors then I will give him more of the benefit of the doubt.

I am curious about what remains under seal. I think I will go back and look at the progression of the warrants again and see if that gives me any clues. One thing I did notice was that the longer this went on the deeper they started to dig into her online affairs. One thing I specifically noticed was that they wanted to look at her "buddy lists" on her AOL accounts.
 

Mountain_Kat

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One thing I question ... IIRC somewhere in all these docs / releases from Elisa.... I thought I remember reading that her accusation was that the body was dismembered in Zahra's room and that blood spatter would be found as the result of this "act" ? Does anyone else remember this or have a link to it or am I going completely crazy ?

So that could mean if the rape occurred and she was killed they then took her body to the Baker home ? (because Y's father was at the house since they were apparently staying with him) ? ? Transporting her THAT time may be the reason for the hits on the vehicles? Just speculating......

I really can't figure out where AB would have been in all of that. He wasnt alleged to have been at the home where the alleged rape occurred?

I am wondering if they were not somewhat "estranged" meaning that she did her thing and he did his ... perhaps he knew about an alleged relationship with "Sammy" and was disconnecting but since he had to work he still left Zahra in her care for the most part? What a mess for LE to sort through all of this.

BBM

From what I've read, through her lawyer, she directed LE to search the pipes and drain trap of the bathtub and kitchen sink for blood, tissue, pieces of bone, etc.

The home where the alleged rape incident occurred is on County Line Dr. in Burke County. It is not the home where LY's father lives. According to AY, SY lived with AY's father. LY, apparently rents or owns the County Line Dr. residence.
 

lauriew

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I hate to say this, but I saw this (and worse?) coming.

Has anyone gotten any more detail about the sexual charge ?

I also have to say that photos shown on (public) FB sites of LJY compared to the video interview here http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-warrants-in-Zahra-Baker-case-unsealed-111070214.html have me even more deeply concerned. He has some of the same decline in physical appearance that people have noted about EB. Lost weight, drawn look, worsened complexion. Things that may indicate that the two were abusing a similar substance.

Did you also note in this interview at the very beginning he says "She was married to my brother." So - we now know how they were related. <modsnip>
 

lishac23

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I volunteer on a regular basis doing child advocacy work more specifically in the awareness and prevention of child abuse. I have seen, heard, and read some unimaginable things that have been done to children. I don't think I will ever be able to say that I have developed a "tougher" skin, however as I am not an extremely emotional person, I am for the most part able to supress the anger, hurt and rage in order to reach the greater goal of justice!
I did have an uncontrollable break down, when I heard about Shaniya Davis, maybe in part because she resembled my own four year old daughter, and in part the disgusting image of seeing her in the hands of her monster, gave me feelings I could never surpress.
Yesterday, I lost it again. There are no laws written to even begin to show the severity of the crimes committed against this child. Murder doesn't even begin to discribe how her life was so viciously taken away. RAPE doesn't even begin to describe the brutality she went through. ABUSE is to light to describe what those
people" she lived with did to her....

TO ZAHRA....it is unfortunate that you were not shown the amount of love you deserved in life as you are now being shown in your death. If no one has looked to the sky and told you today.... I LUV YOU!!!!
 

MsFacetious

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In what WORLD do you wait until 5 days after a child goes missing to report this?

In what world does a mother, stepmother, dad's girlfriend, nanny, first time babysitter, or some lady off the street... come to pick up a child, see that and NOT take her straight to the hospital? (Unless of course, that's why the woman left that child there in the first place.)

It does not say when the original source told B who told J who told the cops. Or how the original source found out, if EB told them or if they personally witnessed it.

Regardless... why didn't that original source pick up the phone and call immediately? Either when Zahra went missing or when they got this information? Why tell someone else instead of LE? How did they know that these same men had not abducted Zahra to keep her in their basement?

If that original source knew about this before Zahra disappeared, especially if that person witnessed anything personally...that person should be charged in my opinion. :twocents:


http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html...ww.wsoctv.com/download/2010/1201/25966496.pdf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40441172

According to the documents, the Burke County Sheriff&#8217;s Office investigated a claim that Zahra Baker had been killed by one or two men who had raped her at a house in Hildebran. The men--cousins--are related to Baker's ex-husband. The tipster alleged that Zahra had been left at the home, and when her mother returned, the little girl had blood on her private area and legs.

According to the search warrants, one of the men had a relationship with Elisa Baker.
 

NoeticSoul

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In what WORLD do you wait until 5 days after a child goes missing to report this?

In what world does a mother, stepmother, dad's girlfriend, nanny, first time babysitter, or some lady off the street... come to pick up a child, see that and NOT take her straight to the hospital? (Unless of course, that's why the woman left that child there in the first place.)

It does not say when the original source told B who told J who told the cops. Or how the original source found out, if EB told them or if they personally witnessed it.

Regardless... why didn't that original source pick up the phone and call immediately? Either when Zahra went missing or when they got this information? Why tell someone else instead of LE? How did they know that these same men had not abducted Zahra to keep her in their basement?

If that original source knew about this before Zahra disappeared, especially if that person witnessed anything personally...that person should be charged in my opinion. :twocents:


http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html...ww.wsoctv.com/download/2010/1201/25966496.pdf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40441172

According to the documents, the Burke County Sheriff&#8217;s Office investigated a claim that Zahra Baker had been killed by one or two men who had raped her at a house in Hildebran. The men--cousins--are related to Baker's ex-husband. The tipster alleged that Zahra had been left at the home, and when her mother returned, the little girl had blood on her private area and legs.

According to the search warrants, one of the men had a relationship with Elisa Baker.

Only in a world where everyone just might be scrambling to cover their OWN arses due to drug dealing/involvement/addiction. IMOO
 

Clue Hopper

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In what WORLD do you wait until 5 days after a child goes missing to report this?

In what world does a mother, stepmother, dad's girlfriend, nanny, first time babysitter, or some lady off the street... come to pick up a child, see that and NOT take her straight to the hospital? (Unless of course, that's why the woman left that child there in the first place.)

It does not say when the original source told B who told J who told the cops. Or how the original source found out, if EB told them or if they personally witnessed it.

Regardless... why didn't that original source pick up the phone and call immediately? Either when Zahra went missing or when they got this information? Why tell someone else instead of LE? How did they know that these same men had not abducted Zahra to keep her in their basement?

If that original source knew about this before Zahra disappeared, especially if that person witnessed anything personally...that person should be charged in my opinion. :twocents:


http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html...ww.wsoctv.com/download/2010/1201/25966496.pdf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40441172

According to the documents, the Burke County Sheriff’s Office investigated a claim that Zahra Baker had been killed by one or two men who had raped her at a house in Hildebran. The men--cousins--are related to Baker's ex-husband. The tipster alleged that Zahra had been left at the home, and when her mother returned, the little girl had blood on her private area and legs.

According to the search warrants, one of the men had a relationship with Elisa Baker.

In the shadier part of our society, you do not get involved. If you do, then you are considered a rat. Rats are taken care of. JMO here if EB was dealing with this type of society, drugs, sex and murder are common. You learn to keep your mouth shut. Sometimes this shadier part of society has people that you would never think involved. More reason to keep something closed mouthed. Not all addicts are unemployed and show signs of abuse. It just seems in the last few years these things are slowly coming out. JMO
 

drivinmebonkers

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okay it states "He was told two days ago by JM (who received information from his sister BM). I'm confused.. Can anyone explain this me?

So was JM in on this too? I need someone to explain who told who, by who.
 

tehcloser

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...... "the mother talking about the blood", is really close to AB's bit about puberty. That makes me think rape happened.....but WHO did it is the question.
 

Clue Hopper

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okay it states "He was told two days ago by JM (who received information from his sister BM). I'm confused.. Can anyone explain this me?

So was JM in on this too? I need someone to explain who told who, by who.

I'm going to try. Apparently it seems that SY told BM who told her brother JM whom told the affiant.

A he said she said thing.
 

Curious Me

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:furious: This case is impossible to distance yourself from because of Zahra. Precious Zahra. I am wondering now if this rape by these two men that resulted in Zahra being hit on the head was the first time she was raped?

This time it turned fatal, but what was going on before. Why was it necessary to dismember her when "normal" parents would've reported the rape, and lovingly gave their daughter a beautiful resting place.

Why would EB and AB actually choose dismemberment of Zahra to begin with? WTH was there to hide beyond what I already know!!! There's more, I fear there's even more dirt to uncover. Overwhelmingly sad.
 

drivinmebonkers

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I'm going to try. Apparently it seems that SY told BM who told her brother JM whom told the affiant.

A he said she said thing.

Thanks, Make sense, so who hit her on the head JM? Was JM the one who gave the tip to LE? I have a hard time comprehending this and I read it several times.

If there was "accused" rape, why wouldn't they take the mattress? Kinda makes me think this was made up or LE screwed up.

Why is it Everyone seems to say "Do you think it could of happened"? well, maybe? That question was asked to 3 different people now. EB father, AB, and Now JY.

So, If JY wasn't sure one way or another if it was "possible" can we rule out the rape allegations?

I'm so confused, I don't know what to think anymore...Is this ALL FOR REAL?
 

the seeker

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Oh GOD. I just had a terrible thought! Maybe this belongs on the trafficking thread [if so, sorry mods], but I keep thinking about the previous landlords who said they kept hearing noises in the attack and found blankets etc. that looked like someone had been dwelling in the attic. I remember thinking at the time how difficult it would have been for Zahra to make it into that attic alone with one functioning leg. I believe [with all my heart] she was up there..and I just cant shake the feeling that she did NOT climb up there alone /and that she didn't *sleep* up there alone either.... I hope to dear God what I *think* took place up there is nothing more than delirium from this whole nightmare. :(

Sadly, I agree with you. I have long thought they had been involving Zahra in some sort of sick activities, and if this rape is true, then I further believe that perhaps they were "selling" her, be it for drugs or money. If this is the kind of company these two kept and allowed around their child, then its not too far off. Obviously if AB was part of what happened to Z after death, then he had to be disregarding her as a human for quite some time, ie. using her as an object. I always thought it was just AB and EB involved in whatever perverse things that were going on; looks like I might have been wrong about that. Could be that she was raped at the other location, and injured, then transported home (blood in vehicle) where she died, and then was, you know (I cant type it right now)....
 
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