2010.12.02. - Lawyers appointed when murder charges were 'imminent' are removed

Clue Hopper

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When I get the time. I will go back and try to do some kind of time line of what exactly was going on, and what warrants etc. had been made before LD took on the case. I'm thinking at the moment it was when she admitted to the ransom note. I could be wrong. I'm also thinking that was right after the LDT. Things have happened so out of sequence with this case. Rumor and non-rumor. It gets really confusing with a time line for everything. If anyone knows offhand please feel free to enlighten this tired brain of mine.
 

WhyaDuck?

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I hope I can word this to make sense to someone besides myself.

Can the fact that LD was appointed to EB without the charges in place come back to hurt the prosecution? I would think a defence attorney could use that to say the public was biased into thinking she was guilty of murder before she was charged with it?

I hope not but just curious. JMO

Maybe, I guess, but IMO not as much damage as poor representation would do. I think LD was good for the case - she was likely behind the remains statements, etc.

And they are a long way from jury selection, so I am not sure how much the lawyer choice could be said to affect that? It would depend on those jurors remembering all this, and knowing who the lawyer was when they heard the story, etc.
 

tehcloser

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It says including ONE high-profile lawyer (which we know to be Dubbs). I don't think the attorney appointed to AB was high profile?

Shoot me, :crazy: I shouldn't have used "high profile"....maybe his was "lower profile" than the one of "higher profile" but the fact remains...they dismissed him right along with the other one. So apparently my remark minus the "high profile' still stands. And besides.....we know they are looking at him. :innocent:
 

Clue Hopper

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Okay y'all help me out here. The article I am going to quote was put out on Sat. Oct. 16. It says on Friday which would be Oct. 15 LD announced she is on the case. It also says she was assigned it on Mon. which would be Oct. 11. Wasn't EB arrested Oct. 10? Look through all this and see if I'm wrong here please.



Lisa Dubs confirmed Friday that she has been assigned to Baker’s case as provisional council. According to court records, Dubs’ role is to “Conduct a preliminary investigation, determine if the defendant is indigent and needs appointed counsel, and protect the defendant’s rights pending appointment of trial counsel.”

North Carolina’s Indigent Defense Services Director and Capital Defender Robert M. Hurley assigned Dubs to Baker’s case Monday.


http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/16/dubs-assigned-elisa-bakers-case-ar-478084/
 

scmom

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When I get the time. I will go back and try to do some kind of time line of what exactly was going on, and what warrants etc. had been made before LD took on the case. I'm thinking at the moment it was when she admitted to the ransom note. I could be wrong. I'm also thinking that was right after the LDT. Things have happened so out of sequence with this case. Rumor and non-rumor. It gets really confusing with a time line for everything. If anyone knows offhand please feel free to enlighten this tired brain of mine.

EB was arrested on Oct. 10 for charges unrelated to the disappearance of Zahra (less than 24 hrs after Zahra was reported missing), admitted to writing the ransom note on Oct. 11(per warrant), LE announced it was a murder investigation on Oct. 12.(TV coverage of press conference.)
Why would LE announce this unless they had probable cause to believe it was so? I may be completely wrong, but I would think that LE would have probably asked both EB and AB to take lie detector tests as soon as possible in order that they be ruled out as suspects. Maybe someone with more LE experience than myself could say if this would be the case.
 

Clue Hopper

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EB was arrested on Oct. 10 for charges unrelated to the disappearance of Zahra (less than 24 hrs after Zahra was reported missing), admitted to writing the ransom note on Oct. 11(per warrant), LE announced it was a murder investigation on Oct. 12.(TV coverage of press conference.)
Why would LE announce this unless they had probable cause to believe it was so? I may be completely wrong, but I would think that LE would have probably asked both EB and AB to take lie detector tests as soon as possible in order that they be ruled out as suspects. Maybe someone with more LE experience than myself could say if this would be the case.

So pretty well much as soon as EB admitted to the note LD was assigned. Something does not fit right here. That is super fast service don't ya think?
 

impatientredhead

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A qualified attorney was provided before charging because of the information she was providing to the police. They can't give her a bounced check attorney and then work with her recovering body parts that may later be used against her without setting themselves up for lack of representation.

She was not charged yet, but she was supplying much need evidence, that for the state to use needed to be collected while she had qualified counsel in such a matter.

Based on what they have found it does not appear that they are rushing to the table with a murder charge (not yet) so there is no reason to keep that attorney on payroll.

It is unusual, but I think it was very responsible and prudent for the state to provide her an attorney of that caliber to protect the collecting of the evidence.
 

westsidefox64

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A qualified attorney was provided before charging because of the information she was providing to the police. They can't give her a bounced check attorney and then work with her recovering body parts that may later be used against her without setting themselves up for lack of representation.

She was not charged yet, but she was supplying much need evidence, that for the state to use needed to be collected while she had qualified counsel in such a matter.Based on what they have found it does not appear that they are rushing to the table with a murder charge (not yet) so there is no reason to keep that attorney on payroll.

It is unusual, but I think it was very responsible and prudent for the state to provide her an attorney of that caliber to protect the collecting of the evidence.
BBM
So that just turned my last thought inside out. I was wondering about what it would look like to a jury if she wasnt charged with murder to have LD. Now I see not having her could have been used to aide EBs defense too. its a good thing im not a lawyer my mind didnt even go that direction.
 

DLT88

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it means that the prosecutor doesn't have enough evidence to make a case of first degree murder. i was afraid this would happen

Let's hope EB gets at least 2nd degree Murder Charges although I'd like to see this woman never see freedom again. Sex trafficking must pack a hefty long sentence one would think, especially when it ends in the death of that child.
 

DLT88

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I would think they will just have regular public defenders now for the smaller charges. These lawyers were just in place b/c of the chance of capital charges.

I think this makes sense, if the capital charges are a long way a way. This was likely hurting the budget, and they can put them back on when the charges do come.

Yes, that's probably it -- or I hope. There is probably only so much $$ allocated until the end of 2010, and they estimate that they won't be ready to charge someone until 2011 anyway maybe with the holidays and all.
 

bellyup

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Shoot me, :crazy: I shouldn't have used "high profile"....maybe his was "lower profile" than the one of "higher profile" but the fact remains...they dismissed him right along with the other one. So apparently my remark minus the "high profile' still stands. And besides.....we know they are looking at him. :innocent:


Not shooting anyone... I see on WS what happens :snooty:
I think that maybe WhyaDuck was right ... they had to dismiss both to get rid of Dubbs.
 

Peliman

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Grrrrr, I have to say I appreciate Ms. Dubbs cooperation in releasing the details she gave to LE. I know there's attorney client privilege, I'm just not in a good mood for criminals today. I'm just wondering if there's some way to compel her to testify?

I really don't even want to hear EB's defense to all that's happened. Some things just speak for themselves.
 

westsidefox64

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Let's hope EB gets at least 2nd degree Murder Charges although I'd like to see this woman never see freedom again. Sex trafficking must pack a hefty long sentence one would think, especially when it ends in the death of that child.

BBM
Im sure it does. Im just not sure its even a possibility now that the rape accusation is in question. JMO
 

drivinmebonkers

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Dubbs stated publicly somewhere that she would represent EB no charges IIRC. It will be interesting to see if she holds up to that. I would guess if there are no murder charges brought that she will not.

I'm left with even a more unsettled feeling now than I was with the rape allegations / rape allegations refuted ..... something is up. Either they don't have enough evidence or not all is as it seems to us on the outside.
I have said from the beginning (not on this board) that NO ONE is going to be charged for this crime..At first I thought they were all a bunch of idiots, they seem to be getting smarter as the case progresses. I don't believe NC is able to handle such cases as this one let alone the little town of Hickory. I also don't think they would have got this far without the help of Dubbs and EB cooperating, we still wouldn't have much to go on but speculation. I heard another poster say she had some salt and pepper in her bra, maybe she can share it with me if I have to eat some crow too, but I don't see ANYONE getting charged for this murder. JMO
 

strach304

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Im sure it does. Im just not sure its even a possibility now that the rape accusation is in question. JMO

Not really. Check the Shaniya Davis thread for the exact sentencing for Antionette Davis. In totality it's close to 30 years for all the combined charges. NC did not charge her with murder while in the commission of a felony either. Or murder as a result of a felony, however the law is worded.
 

Hickory Born

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North Carolina Office of Indigent Defense was just created 10 years ago. In this article they do say at the end of the year, there are money problems, but attornes eventually get paid. Good article.
http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/legal-services-legal-aid/14907939-1.html

I am assuming the county/state does not offer a public defender for worthless check charges and that is why Mark Killian was removed from representing AB. Can anyone tell me if Catawba County provides indigents a court appointed attorney for worthless checks? I think that would be in a county court versus a State court.

AB also has another court appointed attorney in Cadwell County. EB also has another court appointed attorney in Burke County. Are these attorneys still representing AB & EB?

First time poster, but I have been reading WS throughout this awful murder.
 

impatientredhead

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North Carolina Office of Indigent Defense was just created 10 years ago. In this article they do say at the end of the year, there are money problems, but attornes eventually get paid. Good article.
http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/legal-services-legal-aid/14907939-1.html

I am assuming the county/state does not offer a public defender for worthless check charges and that is why Mark Killian was removed from representing AB. Can anyone tell me if Catawba County provides indigents a court appointed attorney for worthless checks? I think that would be in a county court versus a State court.

AB also has another court appointed attorney in Cadwell County. EB also has another court appointed attorney in Burke County. Are these attorneys still representing AB & EB?

First time poster, but I have been reading WS throughout this awful murder.

If you are charged with a crime you are entitled to legal representation. There is no standard anywhere that I am aware that says some charges are held to a lesser requirement.

If it is serious enough to charge them and put them in front of a judge, they are entitled to legal representation if they can't afford one.

Civil court having a different standard of course.
 

Lera213

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What if, and I mean a big if (thinking out loud) Some attorney's end up wishing they never took a case, suppose secretly LD realized this case would not do her any good. I've heard story's of Attorney's doing things to get removed from the case. Suppose something behind the scenes went on that we don't know about and these attorney's have bailed letting some other attorney take the case. *shrug*
 
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