2011.01.11 Info RE: Caylee's Second Autopsy

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by AlwaysShocked, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Active Member

    Messages:
    4,458
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    "The additional information offered up today includes a statement that defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz would testify that an examination of the remains by Orange-Osceola Chief Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia "was less than the appropriate standard for such a medical examiner's protocol."

    Spitz would testify that the discovered skull should have been opened by Garavaglia, something Spitz did in his "second autopsy," according to the motion. Spitz, according to the document, discovered a dirt or mud deposit inside the cranium, on the left side – something Garavaglia did not discover.

    Spitz, the motion states, "would testify that that is material because it indicates that the remains had been laid on the left side … and, therefore, the body had not been left in an upright or straightforward position as has been claimed by investigators, as well as the experts for the prosecution."

    Here's the full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-jose-baez-sanction-appeal-20110111,0,4602564.story
     
  2. Loading...


  3. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Really?!? REALLY?!?!? First of all, to say Dr. G did an unprofessional job is laughable and desperate, at best.

    Second, with the probable movement of her body by the flooding and the animals (oh, how torturous it is to type those words), who's to say where mud *should* be?

    And then this --

    Come on, you've got to be kidding me! So, JB, you not getting the appropriate materials turned over to the court/state by the deadline was a misunderstanding on their part????? He's going to blame his refusal to comply on the court? I mean, I can't OMG any louder!!! They have GOT to stop this idiot!
     
  4. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I don't recall any mention of an upright body in any filing. The stain in the trunk reflects a body laying in fetal position, right temple flush with the carpet IIRC. I also recall the autopsy explaining in detail how the dispersion of bones over a large area was due to foraging animals. In short the body had been moved.
    It also proves the skull was there while the area was flooded because the only way dirt and debris could have entered the sinuses to collect in the skull would have been via water flow. The mud didn't use it's legs to walk there. Oopsy.
    There, now he has a written report like a real Doctor doing a real autopsy would already have. :)

    Re the ME not splitting the cranium. I'm not sure it's normal protocol to open up the cranium of a skeleton on autoposy. Had Dr G, the case against KC would be stronger but I disagree she missed a step. Had Caylee been found with any soft tissues remaining, the ME would have to take samples of brain tissue. Caylee had none left so there would be nothing to examine for cause of death. Her skull was intact, well it was until the defense got hold of her.
     
  5. Itsy

    Itsy Member

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Saw this new topic on the way outta here & remembered that Dr. G did note dirt being inside the skull. (See page 8 of her autopsy report.) WTH does Dr. Spitz mean??? Cranium is part of the skull, right?

    Sorry I can't c&p it from the pfd - need to learn that one day!
     
  6. ZsaZsa

    ZsaZsa Active Member

    Messages:
    9,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I wonder which autopsy report Dr Spitz read? Not the one by DR G that we have all read which clearly describes mud and sand inside the skull.
     
  7. ZsaZsa

    ZsaZsa Active Member

    Messages:
    9,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yes, the Cranium is the roof of the skull.
     
  8. Leila

    Leila Active Member

    Messages:
    12,378
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I don't think it's going to possible to know with certainty that the remains were laid on the left side or upright. Tropical storm Fay hit the area on August 21, 2008 and before it was over dumped a lot of rain. I think it's likely the remains were carried with the current and motion of the water, and came to rest where they were found after the water subsided.
     
  9. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, my guess is JB wrote that up on behalf of Dr. Spitz . . . . He's hoping Dr. Spitz will just "go with it". We all just have to hope the good Dr keeps his Oath of Ethics in mind.
     
  10. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

    Messages:
    21,160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I have to tell you, your picture is perfect at the bottom. JB is the polar bear and HHJP is the penguin at the next meeting. lol
     
  11. Leila

    Leila Active Member

    Messages:
    12,378
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Dr. Spitz's use of the word "mud" as opposed to "dirt" is appropriate, considering that area was under water for about 3 months. I can't see how his comments are going to help the defense in any way. If anything, they help the prosecution.
     
  12. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Thanks Itsy!! I was going on recollection not documentation which is never a good thing lol!! They would have x-rayed the skull and could have removed a sample of the debris by flushing it out with water, the same way it got in. The skull is composed of the cranium (head)nand the mandible (jaw). He found debris inside the head where the baby's brain should have been. The fact the debris had pooled in one area rather than filled the entire cranium is what I find to be very damaging to the defense.
     
  13. Itsy

    Itsy Member

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Yes, I knew that, lol (forgot to put in the eyeroll emoticon and wasn't sarcastic enough :D )
     
  14. Itsy

    Itsy Member

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    :floorlaugh:
     
  15. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    ITA!! I think the defense thought his comment supported some example of shoddy police work without thinking the entire scenario through. Dr Spitz didn't need to take the measures he did to obtain the sample he got. For most people, an autopsy of their loved one is a traumatic event. Caylee had been desecrated enough. I think the jury will appreciate Dr G's methods over those deployed by agents of her Mother, especially after they see pictures of her remains littered among the trash.
     
  16. Itsy

    Itsy Member

    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Wasn't there a big bruhaha about his testimony in the Spector case (I think that was the one)? He was almost incoherent and IIRC the jury didn't take him seriously. I could be wrong (again, lol) I also remember him being on the NG show a good bit in the beginning of this whole case, altho I don't recall which way he was leaning back then.
     
  17. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Sorry itsy lol! I should have picked up on that. :crazy:
     
  18. Numbers

    Numbers New Member

    Messages:
    897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "Saline washing of the cranial cavity was also collected."

    Dr. G rinsed out the cranium to get the dirt and the tooth that was discovered within.

    Dirt + saline water = mud.

    Duh.

    Autopsy, Page 5
     
  19. The World According

    The World According Inactive

    Messages:
    3,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, and sadly her little tiny bones were still being found by the CSI and FBI teams, on their knees, in the rain and mud for days, of course it moved!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt_wegzk0z4[/ame]
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyMjA2XVRH4[/ame]
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptf5sX-Sfpc[/ame]
     
  20. Trapshooter

    Trapshooter New Member

    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Numbers for posting the link to the autopsy. I read the autopsy report a looooong time ago but reading it now makes me sick to my stomach. I cannot imagine that sweet child being "foraged" by animals. :(:(:(
     
  21. ZsaZsa

    ZsaZsa Active Member

    Messages:
    9,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Well there is a way to find out, but as GA's friend told Tim Miller - 'The answer is in that room but the b**ch won't talk".
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice