2011.02.18 Depo: Tony Lazzarro - depo linked on pg. 5

[Just Jayla]

If anyone, and I know this is politically incorrect, needed a spanking it was ICA.

Don't encourage her. That reminds me, is JoseG still visiting her? :sick:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

During his more than one-hour long deposition, Lazzaro described Casey Anthony as a "great girlfriend and a great mom."
-He says that after we all know she murdered Caylee? That is DISGRACEFUL and he should not have said that.

"She used to make me dinner when we'd be living off of nothing," he said. "We hardly ever fought. The times that I was dating her – everything was really a good relationship."

-He sounds like an old married man. Good God they dated for 2 months, not years and years...and I believe she was cheating on him at that time as well. She really picked some unbelievable people to associate with. Sheesh.

 

[Bittiness39]

The molestation allegations to JG at that time were about Lee.

TY! IIRC it was both? GA and LA...but then later, Casey told AH that she had a very close relationship with LA and his gf Mallory and that was her favorite family relationship...and this was in 2008. There was no molestation of Casey. JMO. She just played like there was one. :truce:

 

[strach304]

Does anyone else think CA found out about the trunk on Father's Day? Caylee was talking, and I have always thought she dropped a bomb during her outing to visit Grampa at the nursing home. This may have been the reason for the big blow out that night.

No. Cindy told AH and 911 about the dead body smell in the car. I don't think Cindy would have let Casey anywhere near Caylee if she thought she was putting her in the trunk. If Casey didn't have the sense or concern to know that surely it could result in death Cindy sure would.

 

[cloud9]

Reading the information/statements in this depo makes me question a few things.

During his more than one-hour long deposition, Lazzaro described Casey Anthony as a "great girlfriend and a great mom."

Hmmm... I do remember TL making some comment when he was wired and talking with LA. It wasn't about Caylee, but something about ICA being irresponsible.

"Caylee was very well-behaved," she (AH) said. "Bad parents don't have well behaved children… "

This is not always the case. Actually, "bad" parents often have very well behaved children because those kids are afraid.

JMO, but I find these statements a bit immature and lacking enough details to be credible.

 

[strach304]

TY! IIRC it was both? GA and LA...but then later, Casey told AH that she had a very close relationship with LA and his gf Mallory and that was her favorite family relationship...and this was in 2008. There was no molestation of Casey. JMO. She just played like there was one. :truce:

She told JG and TL Lee molested her. She did say GA abused her but was never specific about what kind of abuse they both said. The allegations about sexual abuse by GA surfaced in her letters to RA. In that instance she said she thought he may have too when discussing the allegations of sexual abuse from Lee. Memories that came to her but she wasn't sure, something to that affect.

 

[Bittiness39]

She told JG and TL Lee molested her. She did say GA abused her but was never specific about what kind of abuse they both said. The allegations about sexual abuse by GA surfaced in her letters to RA. In that instance she said she thought he may have too when discussing the allegations of sexual abuse from Lee. Memories that came to her but she wasn't sure, something to that affect.

It just that anything that starts with Casey says/said/told anyone I have an objection to as it has been shown that anything she says/has said/told anyone is suspect.

 

[Jetaime]

I have always wondered where the he77 little Caylee was when she was not with ICA and George and CA were working. Nobody ever took care of her except "Zanny", the imaginary nanny.

.

BBM
I don't think Xanny was imaginary. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

I have always wondered where the he77 little Caylee was when she was not with ICA and George and CA were working. Nobody ever took care of her except "Zanny", the imaginary nanny.

.

Remember the first eight months or so after Caylee was born, Casey was lying about working, and left Caylee with a gf? (I think her name was Lauren.) So, go back to the very beginning and we find Casey lying and not embracing motherhood one little bit.

Her idea of a good story was she dropped off toddler Caylee on the stairs going up to Zanny's! What good mother would think that's acceptable.

George didn't beat her enough, IMO. She's a no good piece of work.

 

[Just Jayla]

Okay, bad bad bad Jayla! KC did not tell RM that GA beat her or abused her, but she did tell RM that Lee was doing something, well, awkward...so my original point sort of holds the same, sort of doesn't-Guess it adds a new dimension to my questions...Why would KC exclusively tell boyfriends, not girlfriends or male friends, that her brother tried to/did molest her. The answers you guys gave in re: to George make sense, but why would she want to distance her boyfriends from Lee?

ETA-Lee abusing her may add to mitigation, but not to guilt phase like they will try with GA.

at 1:22
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTip27yBQi8&feature=related[/ame]

 

[gitana1]

I came from a very disciplined home. I would be sent to my room w/o dinner, no tv, no desert, no friends over - you know all those things you want. All I wanted in life was approval from my parents (good Lord, I'm 47 and still harping on about that).

What I'm getting at is if you see a child very well behaved, there's a reason for it. I see the kids nowadays where the parents could give a flying flip, and I see how those kids act - not a care in the world. The kids who throw themselves in the grocery store aisle. I did that once. My mum grabbed me by the arm so hard she knocked the socket right out. Well I never did THAT again. Mum said it was my fault because I pulled back.

Okay - where's my shrink!

Anyway - Caylee Marie acted like the perfect child because <insert your theory here>

MOO

Mel

Because she WAS a good little girl. She was a sweetie. And because she really wanted Mommy's love but knew in her heart that it wasn't there.

I had to laugh a little at tony saying ICA was a great girlfriend.

Sure - she supplied food and cooked it - beer, too. She cleaned the apartment; she did their laundry ( haha - my kids did their own laundry at 11 years old) and he got sex whenever he wanted - even if Caylee had to be left alone in the other room.

Sorry - I'm harping on that - but how does that seem okay to anyone?

It's not.

I have wondered many times if Casey did indeed use the trunk as a nighttime babysitter (maybe with some Benadryl or Xanax to help). Nighttime temps in FL are not unbearable, especially in the spring into early summer, so it's entirely possible to me that she did this to Caylee. :maddening: I do still wonder what the he!! she did with her during the daytime, though. I guess they could have gone to parks, malls, etc. until it was time for her to come home from "working."

I really, really doubt Caylee was ever locked in the trunk until the day she was killed. I doubt she was ever abused in any conventional manner until casey murdered her. People find it hard to fathom that a person who generally took good care of her child could kill that child. People assume that because she was capable of murdering her baby, she must have otherwise abused her.

But I think it is very possible for someone not to love their child yet still basically take care of them and not abuse them or neglect them in a conventional sense. I think it is possible for someone to plan to kill their kid but have been a decent parent up to that point, or at least a passable one. Like Susan Smith. Like Darlie Routier. Like Chris Coleman. Like countless others.

I don't think Caylee was locked in the trunk because I have filled in most of the blanks as to where casey and Caylee were during 2008. It seems that casey at first left her child with her parents at night a lot, and then with the Grunds and I think it was Kristina, during the day. Then, Kristina said, "You're not working, no more." And then the Grunds also stopped the free childcare. After that, she seemed to be carting her child around with her a lot more often during the day, albeit grudgingly, as can be seen in the photos at the Lake Vaj house (I think it was).

At night, she continued to utilize her parents until they got wise to her tricks. At that point, CA started demanding proof of employment before she would sit for Caylee at night. And often, it seems, she gave CA the proof that was required, or at least sufficient proof for CA.

Of course, CA began to really uncover the truth about casey's employment status and really started making it difficult for casey to be free. Then, casey found Ricardo. He allowed the baby to spend the night, in his bed. So, casey continued to be free to some degree for awhile and Caylee stayed safe for the moment.

It started screeching to a halt when she hooked onto Tony. He didn't want a baby in his bed. And this was at the same time CA was clamping down harder. The timeline during that time period does not show a night when Caylee was unaccounted for by a third party. But, once casey found it harder and harder to go out and have a place for Caylee to be, she killed her. I think if Tony had been cool with having the baby in his bed, Caylee may still be alive. I think if CA had allowed her daughter to go out whenever she wanted, not work and dump Caylee on the grandparents all the time, Caylee would still be alive. And GA and CA know that, which is why during one of the jail visits, CA announced that when "all of this" was over, casey would not have to work and could be more free. It was like a plea, a prayer: "Just make this nightmare end. Give me back Caylee. I'll give you whatever you want." Sadly, she knew deep down it was too late. I am not saying they are to blame, btw. I'm just saying that casey's final motivation and the reason why the murder happened at the time it did was the squeeze she began to feel and what she perceived to be was her lack of freedom, due to her child. But until then, Caylee was accounted for and not locked away in some trunk.

I think casey resented Caylee but did not hate her. I think her hatred was reserved for her parents, mostly her mom, who began finally to try to hold her daughter accountable. A little too little, a little too late. casey also hated that her mom treated (in her mind) Caylee better. I think she hated her mom for being a better parent to Caylee and for trying to usurp casey's role in that regard. And she hated CA because CA is a crazy, personality- disordered person who made casey's life miserable and likely would have even if casey had not been an irresponsible, criminally minded sociopath.

IMO, casey made the cold and calculated decision to murder a child who got in her way, a child she did not truly hate and probably was even fond of at times. See, sociopaths can do that. They can make clinical decisions about the fates of their "loved ones" without having a history of being violent abusers or criminally negligent parents. They can decide to get rid of people they don't hate who they even enjoy from time to time. That's because the sociopath comes first to the sociopath and anyone who gets in their way is at risk to some degree. Their love is reserved for themselves as are their bonds.

No, I don't think Caylee was ever abused in a conventional sense by casey, until the day her life was snuffed out by a monster. However, there was something going on deep down that I would call abusive. casey didn't really love her child the way we love our kids. She didn't really have that strong bond or familial connection. I think that when Caylee was born, casey saw her at times as an extension of herself, without an independent soul or personality. When she looked at Caylee, it was like looking into a mirror, in a sense. So, she was okay with her. As Caylee grew, she became more of a ball and chain and more like an unwanted sister who was taking casey's place as the family princess and forcing responsibility on casey that began to negate the novelty of having a cute baby to tote around and having people gush at what a great mom she was. And so, Caylee was murdered.

Yet, prior to that murder, despite an absence of any conventional battering or neglect on casey's part of Caylee, at no time was there what I would call a normal bond or level of affection. Hence, the eerie videotapes of Caylee, being taped for long stretches by an unresponsive parent who was simply looking into a mirror as she taped and not seeing the real, live, breathing human soul that was staring back with confusion at the lack of connection and stretching her little arms out, vocalizing as best as she could to get some response from the person she was left alone with, who was behind the camera. But the response did not come, the eerie silence continued and the little face crumpled in confused anguish. That to me is abuse and that's the only kind of abuse I really feel occurred here. And, it's really enough.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

hmmmm.. also.. We dont have copies of these depo's yet right.. Just what the article says about them.. Perhaps when put in the context of the answers in the depos.. these comments will make a bit more sence.. I imagine they sound a bit differantly when put in context with the rest.

 

[Itsy]

Don't encourage her. That reminds me, is JoseG still visiting her? :sick:

I haven't seen his name on the visitor logs...I do believe she literally scared the guy off with her flirting when she was seeing him in court while being charged with murder of her child. Good on him, for drawing a line and not crossing it. Wasn't it shortly after all that mess came out that he quit working for JB? I think he got sick of the whole lot of them. He's certainly better off, IMHO. :twocents:

 

[Just Jayla]

hmmmm.. also.. We dont have copies of these depo's yet right.. Just what the article says about them.. Perhaps when put in the context of the answers in the depos.. these comments will make a bit more sence.. I imagine they sound a bit differantly when put in context with the rest.

Ah yes. The voice of reason, you are! We have no idea what the heck TL said in its entirety, yet.

Saying their relationship was fine and she was a good mom can easily be statements that were true to his thoughts on 06/14/08. Doesn't mean he has a whole lot of nice to say about KC now. And strikingly, the Sentinel did not print but one or two "negative" comments from TL. I am certain there were more than one or two things he said about their client that were not good for her case, they were just not reported. Is this Pipi's outlet?

 

[gitana1]

Could be, but I'll bet we'll never know. I do believe that Caylee told CA some pretty bad things that had been going on at that time (maybe pot smoking, being in the bed with Casey & the guy of the month, where they were when Casey was working, etc.). But I think that if Caylee had told CA about being in the trunk, CA's reaction would have been totally different the day she & GA got the car and smelled the decomp odor. I think she would have put 2+2 together PDQ and taken care of Casey herself instead of calling the cops...

The last video tape of Caylee , probably taken the day before she was killed, does not (IMO and as a former preschool teacher), show a fluently verbal child. Caylee was still coming out of the babbling stage to some degree, "Mama, papa, mama." Yes, she could sing "You Are My sunshine", but probably not with understanding really as to what the words mean, just that it made people happy to hear. I really doubt little Caylee could have said, "Hey grandma, mommy was smoking some weird stuff and I was never at any babysitters'." I bet it was more like, "Oh, did you have fun with Zanny, Caylee? "Mmm, cookie grandma? I wan' cookie!" "Okay, I'll get you a snack. Did you play with Zanny's dogs today?" "Doggies! Doggies! Yah. Zanny doggies! Come on doggies! Give me kisses doogie!" Poor thing.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMzedR5LV5Q&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Silkprint]

I feel bad for the father that Caylee never knew and his family never got to meet . Breaks my heart for them

 

[gitana1]

Because it is a very very effective way of compartmentalizing her boyfriends from her parents. It eliminates that whole situation where the parents seem to really like the boyfriend, perhaps more than the lying stealing fraud of a daughter. It creates an instant and easily manipulatable hostile environment between her suitors and her family. which keeps her completely in control.

And she did use lies to similar purpose with female friends. Note telling Kiyomarie (sp?) that her mother was a racist who hated Spanish people and wouldn't allow them in the house. Or note Amy's deposition where it is clear that she had been told some tales about KC's family life to give her a negative impression before she ever met them. (I'm not saying that there isn't plenty of reason to have negative reactions to the A's. They really are abhorrent. But don't trust any stories from KC, ever.)

I think this is a brilliant analysis of casey and how she works psychologically. You put together little things that on their own are not that relevant and painted a real picture of how she may operate.

 

[tankgirl]

I think this is a brilliant analysis of casey and how she works psychologically. You put together little things that on their own are not that relevant and painted a real picture of how she may operate.

Yes, good insight. It makes a lot of sense to alienate people in your life from one another if you are a pathological liar. By setting them against each other, you avoid having them compare notes.

 

[Curious Me]

I think TL was thinking he'd hit the jackpot having KC pamper him. Sounds like some good times on the way to the good life. However, the jury may wonder how KC had time to be "running her own investigation" in finding her daughter.

MOO, TL got played. I hope he figured it out and will be careful in the future.

 

[MAMABEAR]

The last video tape of Caylee , probably taken the day before she was killed, does not (IMO and as a former preschool teacher), show a fluently verbal child. Caylee was still coming out of the babbling stage to some degree, "Mama, papa, mama." Yes, she could sing "You Are My sunshine", but probably not with understanding really as to what the words mean, just that it made people happy to hear. I really doubt little Caylee could have said, "Hey grandma, mommy was smoking some weird stuff and I was never at any babysitters'." I bet it was more like, "Oh, did you have fun with Zanny, Caylee? "Mmm, cookie grandma? I wan' cookie!" "Okay, I'll get you a snack. Did you play with Zanny's dogs today?" "Doggies! Doggies! Yah. Zanny doggies! Come on doggies! Give me kisses doogie!" Poor thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMzedR5LV5Q&feature=related

wow---reading this made me see a lil girl going out to the car with her grandmother on the way to great g-papa's---g-mom opens the trunk and the lil girl starts screaming "no, please no--i'll be good--dont put me in there" and that is where a granmother could put 2 and 2 together--thus the fight that night