2011.02.21 Autopsy; COD & TOD Discussion *Warning: Graphic*

Discussion in 'Zahra Clare Baker' started by bellyup, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. ~n/t~

    ~n/t~ New Member

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    Definitely. I'm so afraid we'll have another shocker. :(
     
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  2. Allusonz

    Allusonz New Member

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    I believe there is more here for the jury. We are dealing with a young lady that was cut up and EB whom had a past history of abuse of her own children and whom has now been charged with drug dealing. CA from the testimony that came out stated she was a good mom. Here I don't believe her children will state the same thing. Hopefully some of the forensics will point directly at her. Crosses my fingers and says alot of prayers for Zahra
     
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  3. panthera

    panthera Retired WS Staff

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    There is not much comparison between the two. I don't believe EB will come across as a very likeable or sympathetic defendant. And she was not Zahra's biological mother either.

    MOO
     
  4. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Although I have kept up with this case from the beginning, I am just now encountering this part of the thread. So please forgive if I am saying what may be also said in later posts. [​IMG] I got involved with the Nancy Cooper case and them the Michelle Young case, but I'm back for a while...

    Unless the skull of little Zahra is found and it displays some type of blunt force trauma, etc., I think that Zahra probably developed gangrene at the stump area of her thigh, and it progressed to sepsis which overwhelmed her system and was the cause of death. This process would not have taken very long, and it would have been horribly painful. I think that may be the main reason why Zahra's left femur is missing -- sometimes, if the damage from gangrene and ulceration, etc., is severe enough, it can also damage bone... oh, how awful to imagine...

    Oh, that Angel is smiling now, however, and karma will come to EB & AB, IMO, twice -- once here on earth, and once in the hereafter.

    Several WS'ers have written on this forum about how absolutely necessary check-ups and properly-fitting prostheses are for anyone with an artificial limb. How much did that little girl grow in the time she was here? -- 2 inches, perhaps, in height? You can see the difference in her stance with her left shoulder noticeably lower than her right, which has made me cry at the sight. How much bigger did her thigh get as she was growing -- how difficult was it for her to make her prosthesis fit so that she could do those punishment "runs" that EB made her do? What pure he!! that child was put through at the hands of EB and at the ignorance and/or fear her father hid behind to let it happen. Did he ever ask her how things were going, or how her leg was doing? Oh, yes, her daddy was indeed an accomplice at the very least in his negligence of his only little girl. :banghead:

    Here ends my mini-rant...
     
  5. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Oh my, there is just no way to discuss this part of the investigation delicately -- any thoughts we have, although we try to be subtle or gentle, etc., still have to be so awful. This poor little girl -- even in death they (and I mean EB and AB) were evil and just plain cruel...

    That said, even if there were no blunt force trauma to her head, they still had the problem of her teeth -- of course id of the body is not limited to the teeth, but anyway... absent head trauma before/causing death, I think her skull was smashed after death. Again -- teeth, hair, possible prior trauma... the whole head, I think, just gave them problems; in addition, how can someone dismember a head? He!!, just smash it, right?? Yeah, to bits. Put it in a Food Lion bag and it's done. Oh, those animals.

    I don't want to be overbearing on this, but surely Zahra is in the arms of Jesus at this moment. And she can run as fast as anybody! And climb a tree, and wiggle both her sets of toes in the warm sand. :cloud9:
     
  6. TrixieBelden

    TrixieBelden New Member

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    I agree that the suffering Zahra must have had is so horrible. Now there is another case in Gaston County (about an hour away from Hickory where Zahra was murdered) where a 2year old girl was found in a motel room and died. Her mothers boyfriend, a registered sex offender, was "babysitting" while the so called mother went to work. The child had a broken leg that had not been treated for over a week and she developed an infection which turned into sepsis. If I can figure out how I will post a link to the story in the Gaston Gazette...it's horrible. I haven't been able to quit thinking about it all day. Reportedly several relatives had contacted DSS and the parole officer of the "boyfriend" to inform authorities of the danger the child was in. My brain just cannot wrap around how people can mistreat children to such a degree for their own selfish reasons.

    http://www.gastongazette.com/articles/police-59433-charged-make.html
     
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  7. Hickory Born

    Hickory Born New Member

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    Sepsis had entered my mind regarding Zahra's death. BUT, the fact Zahra's skull was hidden and Elisa didn't tell where it was...makes me think sepsis was not the cause of Zahra's death. Maybe Elisa didn't know where the skull was and Adam got rid of it...a possibility! Why were Zahra's body parts put in different locations? There has got to be a reason behind this.
     
  8. athy

    athy Well-Known Member

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    I live in Gastonia and this is such a heartache. both Zahra and this little girl deserved so much more.
     
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  9. TrixieBelden

    TrixieBelden New Member

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    yes I agree..I'm inclined to believe that EB killed poor Zahra in a fit of rage. Meanwhile AB "knows nothing" about what is going on in his own home or about his own daughters treatment
     
  10. TrixieBelden

    TrixieBelden New Member

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    I live in Gaston Co as well...and absolutely they deserved better! I can't get this poor little girl off my mind since I heard about the case....
     
  11. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Hi, TrixieB (and yes, I'm one of those who grew up on Trixie Belden and her horses and mysteries, Nancy Drew, The Hardy Boys, The Dana Girls, and Judy Bolton -- these wonderful hand-me-down books -- and I AM talking about the real original ND books, one of which I am reading for funsies now -- it's The Clue of the Leaning Chimney... swimming pools, movie stars, um er, oops, wrong decade...)

    Back to topic...O.M.G. -- I spent some time looking and linking around on the near-incomprehensible child-death that you showed in the link above, and it is indeed a horror. Another sweet young, trusting child born into a he!!-hole of a too-short life. It is very like the Shaniya Davis horror -- another mother who knows someone even worse than she is, IMO, and who cares more about herself than the precious gift of a beautiful, eyes-of-wonder child. We should see that one on our forum board as well. Addison is her name, and we can't just go to the store or a catalog and get or order a replacement.

    Heaven must be getting so full of little angels these days...

    I'm not so sure that our WebSleuths site will have enuff room in cyberspace to hold all of these horrible death and cruelty crimes, and I'm so glad we WS'ers care enuff to sniff around, care, make others aware, and try to investigate and learn from this stuff -- and from each other. "Sub-human" is the term that is in my head at this moment, and eternal damnation is another one right now, as well. Oh, the inhumanity of man.... [​IMG][​IMG]

    JMHO and excuse my rant...
     
  12. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    TrixieB - Initially, and still a bit, I had figured death from what I would call somewhat natural causes, i.e., sepsis or a return of her cancer and the neglect of either, but the missing skull nags at me. Is it missing because of blunt force trauma to the head, or for the evidence of teeth for id? That's one we may never know....

    Now, I'm thinking more that, as you say above, EB just flew in to a rage, either because of some little thing that Z did or said, or EB was so jealous of her, from the first days (did it start in OZ?), that she just wanted her GONE.

    Freak.
     
  13. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Yeah, how 'bout that "I know nothing," business from AB that you mention, TrixieB? It makes me wanna holler. Either he's a total wimp, wife-whipped, let us day (IMO), or he just plain didn't care about his little girl who had no one on whom she could rely. Oh, how he let her down. All alone in that place she didn't like with that woman who abused even her own children (according to them), so what horrors did she impose on her since she was so apparently jealous of her? :banghead:

    This know-nothing line isn't only a lie -- in this case, it's a crime. It's called neglect -- leading to death, IMO. Even if Z didn't die from sepsis due to a horribly-infected stump, did he think that coming to the US would negate her ever needing a new prosthesis, and one that would fit and not cause her constant pain? Or perhaps a cancer check? What did EB do to him, I wonder, to apparently have him acquiesce to whatever she did? It makes more sense if he was a party to it, but I'm not so sure he was (but this doesn't make him an innocent by-stander by any means). I'm a-gettin' carried away agin. :rage::pullhair:
     
  14. TrixieBelden

    TrixieBelden New Member

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  15. TrixieBelden

    TrixieBelden New Member

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    & yes I loved Trixie Belden books growing up-showing my age huh?
     
  16. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    We BOTH are!!! But, my mystery-reading fan & friend, we read and read and read and read -- I fell sure you probably devoured them as fast as I did. And people who read a lot (it almost doesn't matter what -- almost) have been shown to have better spelling & vocabulary skills, and better writing skills. (Fat lotta help pour moi, but WTH...).

    Anyway, back on topic, re AB :Bennymonkey: -- do you think we'll ever really find out what his involvement in all this was? I would tend not to believe anything EB said about it all. :doh:

    And if any lie detector tests were given, we'll never hear about those, either. :steamed: Arrrrghhhh, :rage:this just all makes me scream. :furious: Those awful, awful people. EB may truly be insane. But that matter shouldn't interfere with her being in....:behindbar .

    And yes, Trix, EB is a :snake: .

    So, we wait... :waiting:
     
  17. MandyLeigh

    MandyLeigh In Memory of my beautiful teacher Katherine Powell

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    I have been gone for so long, my health took a major crash shortly after Zahra was finally found so I apologize if this has been gone through many times before. I have thought about her in my absence but with some sense of peace knowing she had been found and could finally go home

    :banghead: Now I come back to view the autopsy and realize there isn't nearly enough of that little girl. It's like she is still missing, still out there somewhere. I want her little skull found.

    And her father is still roaming the streets FREE? :maddening:
     
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  18. NoeticSoul

    NoeticSoul Learning is a gift, even if pain is your teacher.

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    I hope your health is improving and that you feel better soon MandyLeigh! :grouphug:

    I think about Zahra daily and pray that justice is served. Please know that there are individual people still searching for the rest of her and LE's & SBI's investigation remains active, and will be-- all the way up until and probably during EB's trial--- and beyond where others involved are concerned.

    Take care and take it easy...

    NS
     
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  19. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

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    I think Elisa might just be pure evil and not disquised to well either. To put blame on Adam she wouldn't tell where the skull was hidden. "I don't know, Adam hid it". But then again, Adam could have full knowledge but I think he shrinks at responsibilities so he can say "I don't know"... My thoughts alway lean toward Elisa being super wise in lying. Expert pretty much if you need lessons on how to remarry without telling your spouse for one!

    I'm glad there are people still searching. Such a horrible case and a sweet child who didn't deserve this evil. RIP Zahra.

    Mandyleigh, glad you are doing better! xoxo
     
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  20. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Dr. Know? -- I see where you used the words, "pure evil" in your post above to describe EB. Yes, all of it was so very evil and horrible for that sweet & smiling little ray of sunshine. Now, too late for her, she belongs to all of us -- and Heaven, too.[​IMG]

    Many of us use that same word on this forum because we do see it here, all too often. And you're right -- this is a case of pure evil. And if EB were to hear it said in a description of herself, I think she would smile with pride. I don't know what kind of awful games she & AB played online as they got to know each other, but I think she thought about being evil quite a lot, and I think that was the word and world in which she gloried.

    To her children, probably to her many exes, certainly to Zahra, and probably to AB -- she was just pure evil. I'm still unsure what AB's role in all this was, as are so many of us, but I do think she had him running scared. He seems like a scared puppy to me -- and in saying this, I absolutely do NOT mean to imply non-participation or innocence on his part. He at least saw what she was doing to his daughter -- he may have been too afraid to do or say anything about it. So he did nothing, IMO. Every day, every day. That poor little girl. And I still believe EB was very jealous of Zahra who had no idea why EB did these awful things to her. That child probably just shook with terror when she heard EB call her name or when EB came into her room.

    With EB's birthday being 6/6/68, she decided that evil-ness was her right & responsibility -- so why not just go for it? It gave her some type of pleasure. Sick, sick, sick. She even decided to go "goth," thereby mimicking some of the middle-schoolers' dress there in town -- and totally misunderstanding, IMO, the point of goth dress and its attraction. (I'm not defending or deriding goth dress, in any sense, BTW.)

    Somehow this person took advantage of susceptible adults and defenseless children and just went wild with wickedness and cruelty.

    Yes, to call her "evil," IMO, would, to her, indeed be a compliment. And it may also keep her locked up for, I hope, a long, long time. [​IMG]

    Here ends another rant...
     

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