2011.03.07 Dorothy Sims Docs RE: Chloroform & Plant Growth *Merged*

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by mobius99, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. mobius99

    mobius99 New Member

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  3. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

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    I'm looking forward to DCSs reports. She mentioned 2 cases last week that sound fascinating. The first had something to do with Chloroform and Blood pressure, the second Fibromyalgia and trauma.
    Neither sounded like they related to this case at all but what do I know. :)
     
  4. joypath

    joypath Active Member

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    :twocents: the "jest" of the motion: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:


    :woohoo: Can't wait to watch this one within the courtroom! :woohoo:
     
  5. ZsaZsa

    ZsaZsa Active Member

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    What exactly are they saying? :banghead:
     
  6. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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  7. joypath

    joypath Active Member

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    :twocents: That's it.....:seeya: gonna TRASH all the instruments in the laboratory (yeah, instruments vs "machines"!) since the defense gang in Fla rewritten the "rules"!

    PLEASE....SOMEBODY explain to the author of this motion that a concentration of an element (chemical) as measured within a standardized volume is considered a QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS! The determination of the qualitative amount is within the language terms: trace, moderate, high, abundant, "a whole lotta stuff", or some other vernacular and is usually applied in conversation where ALL parties are speaking the same language......as in they acknowledge acceptable ranges, normal limits, published data points in scientific terminology!
    WOW......now the "nuts & bolts" workhorse GS/MS has been elevated to a level of predicting COD! Guess certain MEs will be out of jobs 'cause MOST I know utilize the generated data from laboratory instruments to ASSIST (if necessary) in the COD determination~
    WAIT......Barry "who never calls Baez" Logan, Ph. D. submitted a report 2/8/2011!!! (FYI....you use either Dr. or Ph.D/M.D/D.O. as a title but never BOTH!) and I want to READ it! Remember, Barry was suppose to be the DNA guy from NMS labs!and how "cute", remember the JA-JB "fight" over Dr. Logan's title....seems good ole Barry falls back to his FIRST love: CHEMISTRY by chatting about chlorine & H2O! :banghead: :banghead: (giggles....giggles......giggles)
     
  8. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    Overall, Ms. Sims has a pretty compelling argument (MOO). Wish it weren't so, but I find myself thinking the cloroform may indeed go out the window.

    Now, if they could only figure out what to do about those 31 days, and that pesky duct tape, and the lies, and

    well I guess I could go on and on but why bother, ya'll get the jist.
     
  9. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    They are seeking to argue that the volume or quantity of the chloroform cannot be measured by the equipment used and therefore it should not be allowed to be argued that chloroform played any role whatsoever in babygirls death. They are further arguing that since the amount of chloroform present was unable to be judged by this equipment and since chloroform can be explained by other means in trace amounts that the chloroform's mere presence is not substantive to what the state would like to imply it means.

    I actually don't think its a bad memo. You can certainly tell someone better than JB drafted it, lol.
     
  10. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

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    It's well written but I'm not sure it actually says much. I take my cue from Joypath who is giggling over it. If it makes her laugh, it makes me go:woohoo:Not to be oppositional but if the defense had a solid argument here, they would have submitted by deadline and not weeks after the fact IMO.
     
  11. Nore

    Nore New Member

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    -----------

    [ame="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=the+body+farm%2Fcaylee+anthony&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSND_enUS406US406"]the body farm/caylee anthony - Google Search[/ame]


    ------------------
    An interesting read about the car,chloroform.:seeya:
     
  12. RR0004

    RR0004 New Member

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    So...maybe George's affidavit has something to do with hauling pool products in Casey's car? We've been down this road...it wasn't pool chemicals.
     
  13. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    oh no, I don't see you as oppositional.

    I am not saying I agree with the defense's argument, simply saying, I was expecting more of a JB style motion (incomprehensible) and was surprised that its not a badly written memo by comparison. My unscientific brain considered it a pretty decent one. I cede to joypath's experience and knowledge. I was also making a point that even if they were to win this motion, I don't think the state's case hinges on the chloroform :)
     
  14. watergirl

    watergirl Inactive

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    also courtesy of Valhall...

    http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/reports/fbiodoranalysis6551_6591.pdf

    :waitasec:

    In briefly looking over the ORL findings... if I am reading this correctly, according to page 5 (paragraph right below Table 2) and Figure 7, the chloroform concentrations were detected in the ppm (parts per million) range, vs the typical ppt (parts per trillion) range which they state is characteristic of human decomp.

    I dont see how this can be obfuscated just because the defense fails to understand everyday lab methodology used to quantify/isolate VOC samples. Where are they getting that the chloroform was detected below quantification limits? If chloroform is typically detected in the ppt range, how can concentrations measured in the ppm range be below the detection limit?

    Also, natural attenuation research tells us that volatile organic compound (VOC) concentrations decrease over time when exposed to oxygen. Duh? This has been out there in (subsurface) environmental journals for at least a decade or two.

    Ergo, if constituent A is measured on Day 31 at say 10 ppm, then it was greater than 10 ppm on Day 1. But they dont have that Day 1 number, so the defense stand is that is a Frey issue?

    :waitasec:

    :twocents::twocents::twocents:
     
  15. nums24

    nums24 Praying for Justice!

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    Those were not "New Motions", the defense filed additional memorandum to support their original motions.

    First the defense filed these:
    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...ads/Motion to Exclude - Chloroform (Frye).pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...ds/Motion to Exclude - Root Growth (Frye).pdf

    Then the state filed these motions to strike the defense motions:

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...le Evidence Pursuant to Fyre - Chloroform.pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi... Unreliable Evidence Plant or Root Growth.pdf

    When this came up at the hearing Friday, atty Clay-Sims said she would file the memorandum by Noon on Monday. This is what Val is referring to.
    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...le Evidence Pursuant to Frye - Chloroform.pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...nreliable Evidence - Plant or Root Growth.pdf

    The State has argued that these are not Frye issues as presented by the defense, yesterdays filings were intended to help their case, which as Val points out, they appear to have failed.
     
  16. Capri

    Capri New Member

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    Cloroform- sent to judge 3/7/11 9:47 AM from Dorothy Sims, atty:
    http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27106293/detail.html?utm_source=manual&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign

    Plant growth- sent to judge 3/7/11 2:24 AM from DS, atty:
    http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27106306/detail.html
    I tried to put these on the 2nd hearing day, when they were brought up, but that thread is closed. These are the written documents that follow up the handwritten note Sims hurredly wrote in open court and Baez signed. They are regarding the chloroform & plant growth issues.

    Mods feel free to move if needed.
     
  17. faefrost

    faefrost New Member

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    "Page not found" So something must be off in the links.
     
  18. kaRN

    kaRN Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse

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    So the JD is now an expert ME? I hope the defense experts concur with her filing. They made Joypath giggle on the other thread which made me smile from ear to ear.
    DCS would slaughter any MD who didn't have complete documentation of every intervention s/he initiated on a client and yet here she comes, hypocrite to the max, bolstering the reportless defense with questionable scientific understanding.
    And she's doing it pro-bono. It's mind boggling to me actually.
    Fools rush in where angels fear to tread....so go for it Dorothy. Caylee karma is strong enough to ruin you like it has everyone else on this DT. :)
     
  19. nums24

    nums24 Praying for Justice!

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    Here are the links to all the motions and memorandum:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6196327&postcount=14"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - New motion - Chloroform[/ame]

    and the handwritten note: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/72841857/20110304-Correspondence-To-Court--Jose-Baez
     
  20. watergirl

    watergirl Inactive

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    bbm

    :cheer:
     
  21. Capri

    Capri New Member

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    Thanks Fae, they are corrected :)
     

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