2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

[twall]

And does anyone know WHY this fight with Cindy & KC wasn't let in?? And all that happened before as you say above - at least they would have had the 'why'... :maddening:

JA said on Dateline they could not prove the fight happened-no one that was allegedly involved in it would not admit it happened. It was un-admissable hearsay.

 

[BeagleMom]

I'm 30 minutes into it and both the alternate jurors said they couldn't convict ICA because the state did not show how Caylee died and they could not see why ICA would want to kill Caylee (motive). Without those 2 things they could not convict.

Also, the younger alternate juror said that he thought ICAs partying behavior was normal for a 22 year old. Oh, and that he thought she wasn't really into the partying. Also, didn't appear that she was a bad mother. Actually, she was a good mother.

I hope this turns around pretty quickly because I am thinking this juror did not hear the same evidence I heard....

BeagleMom

 

[Malini2001]

Malini2001

What all did the Alt Juror that was on there have to say? I did not come into this until about 20 or so minutes into it.

Was the young guy an alternate? I didn't hear for sure. He said that she seemed like a normal girl her age, that he didn't see a lot of abnormal partying. He did say that he liked Baez because he wasn't the typical attorney. He liked his presentation style. :waitasec: He said that he understood she liked to go out but that her parents stepped in for that - big problem there for not introducing evidence that showed it was a problem between Cindy and Casey.

The juror did not trust George either, found him evasive. I think he said that he didn't believe the abuse allegation, but he did say once you hear something it is in your head.

 

[nursebeeme]

so they wanted the two things (motive and cause of death) that did not have to be proven.

too bad they didn't take a little more time to read over the instructions and evaluate all the circumstantial evidence..

ten hours of deliberations after six weeks of evidence... how sad

((sorry for the rant.. I am still upset and sick over the verdict and to hear their reasoning makes me even more sick))

 

[WillenFan21]

Yep the younger guy, shaved head, sorta beard/facial hair. Good looking too.

 

[Malini2001]

:sighs: again the jurors are instructed that the state does not have to show or prove motive.

I'm pretty much done with all the babble by these people. I'll just read recaps on here.

Right. It all seemed to hinge on why and how for them. Even though the state didn't have to show motive, they all looked for it and they couldn't figure out what it could be. That's why they should have introduced more that showed the relationship - and that ICA's current boyfriend didn't want Caylee staying over.

 

[twall]

Jeff Ashton also said that they could not verify the story of the fight the day before Caylee died.

The young male juror they had on said he felt ICA acted like a normal 23 year old. She wanted to party but her parents stepped in and watched Caylee. This is why it needed to be brought out that Cindy and George were not always available to watch Caylee and that Cindy didn't like ICA staying out late.

I don't think it was ever stated during the trial that her current boyfriend didn't want Caylee staying at the apartment. If it wasn't heard by the jurors it should have been.....this went to the root of the motive and seems to be 1 of the things the jurors felt was missing.

I agree and I wish the jury would have heard how ICA stabbed her BFF (Amy) in the back by stealing from her when she was nice enough to let her use her car for a week while she was on vacation.

 

[Malini2001]

Thanks for the heads up...missed the first 8 minutes...what did the text msgs say?

They showed texts between Amy and ICA planning the Puerto Rico trip and texts with the Italian guy where she called Caylee a snot head.

 

[Nova24]

Clear if this is representative of the jurors that they didn't understand or do their job. Sad.

 

[feddup]

Was the young guy an alternate? I didn't hear for sure. He said that she seemed like a normal girl her age, that he didn't see a lot of abnormal partying. He did say that he liked Baez because he wasn't the typical attorney. He liked his presentation style. :waitasec: He said that he understood she liked to go out but that her parents stepped in for that - big problem there for not introducing evidence that showed it was a problem between Cindy and Casey.

The juror did not trust George either, found him evasive. I think he said that he didn't believe the abuse allegation, but he did say once you hear something it is in your head.

I think Judge Perry told them to disregard it but said once you hear something like that it stays in your head.
I couldnt believe what I heard. Its like they didnt listen to ANY of the Prosecution team
The one guy even said he actually liked Baez:banghead:

Jesse had PKENTY to say. He said KC now has it all: her freedom and probably $$$$$.
He seems very bitter about what happened to Caylee...

I believe they also talked about how jury wasnt allowed to hear alot of
evidence. Such as she stole about $700 from AH.
Oh, and the pics of the smily KC with Caylee helped, too. Thought that made her good Mother SHEESH!

 

[MarthaM]

I watched the whole thing. I thought the alternate juror was interesting to listen to. He sure sounded intelligent to me and as if he took his job seriously.

They spent a bit of time on what the grandmother had to say, although I don't think it was valuable as far as evidence of anything goes.

I was glad to hear that Ashton only had positive things to say about the jury.

They focused on the relationship between Casey and her mother, which just adds to what the prosecution (and defense) did prove, that they weren't exactly an Ozzie & Harriet household.

The show did have some tabloid moments which I thought took away from it a little, such as near the end when they mentioned that Casey had had an offer to do a *advertiser censored* film and said that she looked like a Shampoo Ad Model (or something like that) for her sentencing.

 

[Malini2001]

so they wanted the two things (motive and cause of death) that did not have to be proven.

too bad they didn't take a little more time to read over the instructions and evaluate all the circumstantial evidence..

ten hours of deliberations after six weeks of evidence... how sad

((sorry for the rant.. I am still upset and sick over the verdict and to hear their reasoning makes me even more sick))

Exactly - the 2 things that didn't need to be proven. Even if they understood the instructions that those 2 things didn't need to be proven doesn't mean that they didn't WANT to hear them. I think that is where they felt the reasonable doubt came in. It seems the whole trial didn't make sense to them without the motive and cause of death. Maybe there is a better way to word juror instructions, I don't know. Even excluding the things I know that weren't shown at trial, I think I would have voted to convict on at least child abuse and manslaughter.

Jeff Ashton said as soon as he heard innocent on the child abuse he knew they were going to let her off. He said he accepts that they didn't see the evidence of the duck tape and her disposal in the swamp the same way he did.

One person (I think it was the young alt. juror) didn't understand why someone would use duck tape if they wanted to smother someone else.

 

[BeagleMom]

Now, they are really getting into the jealousy between CA and ICA. The fight, which JA said they could not prove.

Yes, the young juror was actually an alternate. He almost seemed smitten with her. He said he would watch her body language and he just didn't see her killing her child.

Brought up SPs belief about KC hating her mom more than loving Caylee.

Also, brought up the stealing of the checks from Amy.

I've put the show on pause to write this to you....

They are saying that KC walked into sentencing with the look she had when she was out partying with her friends. All smiles and "looking like a shampoo model."

JG just said that when the verdict was read he thought that KC had a feeling in her of "in your face. I'm done. I get to get out of here and there's nothing any of you can do about it."

 

[Nefriahaia]

The one guy even said he actually liked Baez:banghead:

Can the aliens just destroy the Earth now? :sick:

 

[feddup]

Beth Karas was on, think she said KC will owe State about 191K.

I missed very first part.

 

[Malini2001]

I watched the whole thing. I thought the alternate juror was interesting to listen to. He sure sounded intelligent to me and as if he took his job seriously.

They spent a bit of time on what the grandmother had to say, although I don't think it was valuable as far as evidence of anything goes.

I was glad to hear that Ashton only had positive things to say about the jury.

They focused on the relationship between Casey and her mother, which just adds to what the prosecution (and defense) did prove, that they weren't exactly an Ozzie & Harriet household.

The show did have some tabloid moments which I thought took away from it a little, such as near the end when they mentioned that Casey had had an offer to do a *advertiser censored* film and said that she looked like a Shampoo Ad Model (or something like that) for her sentencing.

I don't think the relationship between Casey and her mother was dwelled on enough at trial. Almost like they didn't want to step on Cindy's toes.

I thought it was interesting when the narrator said that ICA appeared for the sentencing looking like a shampoo ad model and with a smile they hadn't seen since the hot body contest photos. And it was the same smile!

 

[okiedokietoo]

Now, they are really getting into the jealousy between CA and ICA. The fight, which JA said they could not prove.

Yes, the young juror was actually an alternate. He almost seemed smitten with her. He said he would watch her body language and he just didn't see her killing her child.

Brought up SPs belief about KC hating her mom more than loving Caylee.

Also, brought up the stealing of the checks from Amy.

I've put the show on pause to write this to you....

They are saying that KC walked into sentencing with the look she had when she was out partying with her friends. All smiles and "looking like a shampoo model."

JG just said that when the verdict was read he thought that KC had a feeling in her of "in your face. I'm done. I get to get out of here and there's nothing any of you can do about it."

I want to hear what this juror has to say after he watches the videos of how she acted when they (the jurors) were out of the courtroom.

 

[BeagleMom]

Mentioning the death threats agst. the Ants.

Cindy may be facing legal problems over her testimony trying to protect her daughter. JA doesn't know what the status is of this.

JG believes that the Ants and KC will remain estranged after she gets out. KC now has everything she wanted....her freedom, she's probably going to have money.

But, the state is pursuing investigation reimbursement so any money KC makes, the state might get some.

Bottom line, we will never know how or when Caylee died. And if KC decides to talk, nobody will believe her.

That's pretty much it!

BeagleMom

 

[okiedokietoo]

Beth Karas was on, think she said KC will owe State about 191K.

I missed very first part.

And that doesn't include ZFG's civil case, court costs from fraud case and court costs from this case

 

[Talina]

And that doesn't include ZFG's civil case, court costs from fraud case and court costs from this case

Plus the $68k owed to the IRS.

I'm actually surprised at Beth Karas saying $191k to the state. For 6 months of trying to find Caylee, seems to me it would be much more than that.

IMO

ETA - I wonder if she even knows about the IRS yet and that Baez did not pay her taxes before he took the money and put it in his account.