2nd Grader Suspended For Drawing Figure Firing Gun

[CyberLaw]

Art is often used by children to "express" their feeling, thoughts and emotions. This kid is 7 and is drawing guns, well hopefully in 15 years he won't be bring a "real gun" to school because he feels slighted, bullied, picked on or what ever reason kids bring guns to school and slaughter your son or daughter.

The child needs ramifications and consequences for his actions. For someone to minimize "his artistic" thought is to ignore school violence and violence in young kids.

A second grader is just as capable of "bringing" the real gun to school and shooting people as a kid in grade 10.

As the whole world knows, the USA is a "gun and violence" crazed nation. Tourist are warned on websites about gun violence when they plan to visit the States.

Guns can be easily obtained even by a child. Children know all about violence either from cartoons, or TV programs.

So hopefully during the one day suspension from school, Mom and or Dad, or someone else "can explain" to the 7 year old, that guns, violence, and school are never a good mix. That even "if you had the intent" that this does not depict "real" guns, the "idea" is there to promote the idea of guns through the drawing.

 

[eve]

Drawing a stick figure with a gun does not a murderer predict. Maybe this kid is drawing what he isn't allowed to play. How we emerged from playing cops and robbers, war, watching Gunsmoke, The Three Stooges (yes, very violent), etc. without becoming murderers, I can't imagine. The more concern raised about violence in the form of zero tolerance, suspending, invoking the thought/art police, the more school violence seems to escalate.

The root of this violence isn't child's play, imo.

Eve

 

[CyberLaw]

Eve: Are you serious. I saw a program, where kids as young as 7, 8 and 10 knew the "DIFFERENCE" in guns, how to load them, where to get them and they have seen someone shot. These kids were "well versed" in guns and what to do with them.

Too many "problems" end with a bullet.

The more violence real or on TV a child is exposed to increases the chance that they "will become immune to actual violent acts when they see them".

Why do you think that TV shows are rated according to age. It appears to me the younger the age recommended the less or no violence is in the show.

Parents apparently need to be "advised" what type of programs are acceptable for children of specific ages. What content is acceptable.

Heck a Mom was "upset" when her son "acted" out after he saw a violent program. Go figure, she had no idea why he did this, none what so ever.

So when it comes to zero tolerance(Now Sam, we are going to suspend you from school because you were "pretending" to solve your problems on the school yard in the form and actions of "taking" out your friends. So of course this suspension will "just encourage" you to do it again.

Please........

There are more people who die by guns, or are killed by guns either with intent or not in the USA then any other "country" not at war,

In the historical sequence of events the USA has always been violent, in one way or another. What US citizen is not going to see " a violent" movie that has shoot outs, guns, etc. It is what sells in the USA, the more violent the more popular.

Who says that by watching the programs that you mentioned that some kids and adults did not become murderers. Can you speak for everyone in the USA or just yourself and people you know and or your family.

Violence is learned........guns are seen as toys, children die everyday at the end of a bullet. Parents glorify violence, keeps guns in plain site, use them to "threaten" and feel important and then can't figure out why their kids do the same. Heck a three year old "was very creative" in getting to the top drawer to get "Daddy's gun" that was the last thing she ever did in this life.

I just do not see this as innocent as some might think. But after all I don't live in a gun country.

Unless a person has access to a plane and bomb they cannot carry out the events pictured in their drawings. But remember 5 year olds can access and carry a gun to school. All they have to do is bring the gun from home.

Irresponsible parents who buy their kids guns, store them with safety, or in plain view, talk and glorify violence, well do you think those kids will grown up not to revere guns and the "power and control" they they seek by harming a person with a gun.

 

[Taximom]

I'm not quite sure how this turned into picking on the USA. This thread is about a 7 yr old boy drawing a picture of a child (himself) with a gun. I'm pretty sure you'll find that in any country in the world.

I really hate it when people starting ragging on the USA. Blah blah blah. Fix your own country and when yours is perfect, come fix ours. And I'm not speaking specifically about Canada, but all countries and other posters that start nit-picking the US.

 

[eve]

Yes, Cyberlaw, I'm serious.

My grandfather took a gun to school (to hunt after school). Common practice in our "awful" country in that era. He never shot anyone. He was a large animal vet and had a handgun for putting horses out of their misery. He was a fisherman and hunter, yes, but his job was caring for farm animals. There was an overall attitude of respect and "law-abidedness" we do not have today. I say overall - so please do not start on the Civil Rights problems of that era. I am trying to stay on topic and don't want a USA bash fest on sins of the past. It is so interesting that we are such a brutal, war-mongering, paternalistic country, yet people are risking their lives to get past our borders to live here. And we're so mean and nasty that we provide all kinds of benefits for them, even if they are here illegally. So I guess we're maternalistic too. Hmmmm.

I don't believe most school shooters are from families who worship guns. I recall reading most of them are angry loners who sought out guns to act out. My own three children, two boys and a girl, all had gun safety courses at 12. My boys hunt regularly with guns and bows. My daughter bagged a turkey with a bow last year. In no way do we glorify guns in our family. I don't speak for the whole USA and am not attempting to - please do not lump me in with the violent - you don't know me or my family at all.

My kids are responsible, fun, well-adjusted, thoughtful kids. They get angry but they are not angry, and yes, I provided age-appropriate guidance in what they watched and were exposed to, but mostly they heard commentary and engaged in open discussion on the things they saw - I'm not big on censorship.

Cities with the most restrictive guns laws also have the highest violent crime statistics.

I am a teacher of troubled kids, I am around kids all day. I am much more worried about the rage and resentment I see in emotionally and physically neglected kids who have never had access to responsible gun education or an opportunity to participate in any hobby with their families (like hunting) than I am about a kid drawing a gun or playing cops and robbers. If you take away the play gun they will just grab a stick, I've seen it a million times, moms forbidding play guns - they just do it anyway. They are not all murderers. The murderers are generally sitting alone in a room and are not playing with anyone.

Our system wasn't designed to punish thought and expression. Sorry.

I'm sure you're glad you don't live here.

Guns are not the cause of the problem. It is something else much more complex.

Eve

 

[CyberLaw]

I am not "picking" on the USA, let me make that clear.

Just a few weeks ago a 14 year did bring a gun to school and it was not to hunt animals, but to feel powerful over others.

Funny how his Mom is up on charges that she provided him with the access and means to have a gun.

In 2004, a full 70% of murders involved guns. Of those murders, 77.9% involved handguns, 5.4 shotguns and 4.2% involved rifles.

Guns are not toys, and any child who "thinks" that needs to be "set straight"

 

[eve]

I am not "picking" on the USA, let me make that clear.

Just a few weeks ago a 14 year did bring a gun to school and it was not to hunt animals, but to feel powerful over others.

Funny how his Mom is up on charges that she provided him with the access and means to have a gun.

In 2004, a full 70% of murders involved guns. Of those murders, 77.9% involved handguns, 5.4 shotguns and 4.2% involved rifles.

Guns are not toys, and any child who "thinks" that needs to be "set straight"

So the kid drawing the gun thought what? On what exactly did he need to be "set straight?" We are not talking about a kid bringing a real gun to school thinking he was powerful or that it was a toy.

I will say it again, this is punishment for expression. It is one thing if a student communicates a specific threat to another in writing. This was a drawing and even though he labeled the figure "me" I do not hear an allegation that he was threatening anyone.

Heaven help us if we have to set people "straight" on what they "think." Boy, do I have a lot of work to do.

Eve

 

[miimaa]

This is nuts.... don't little boys NORMALLY play games like cowboys and indians or cops and robbers? All the boys I knew in grade school did and it wasn't a problem. Things we did growing up are now punishable. Kids can't play tag, can't wear scary Halloween costumes, can't have Christmas parties at school. Did we all turn out bad? I think not.

 

[CyberLaw]

He did communicate the threat, he gave his drawing to another kid who showed it to his parents, who were concerned enough to "be responsible" and report the kid.

Picture and drawing reflect how people feel, what they have experienced and what they would like to do.

Should we wait for 3 years, 5 years until this child gets a real gun and brings it to school and then people say: He was a sweet and gentle kid, a great kid, I had no idea that he was so angry. Now 5 kids are dead. Why did no one do something about this when he was 7 and drew a picture that showed two people holding guns. Was that not a red flag, why did someone not do something back then. We could have avoided 5 deaths today.

Sounds like a sound bite, why?????. Because it is only after the fact that people "saw" the red flags.

Just like the Columbine shooting, or any of the other shooting.

He was expressing his feelings, at the end of a gun, in the form of a drawing.

It does not matter what a child did. It is what "the intent" is.

Who knows how many kids who played cops and robbers, decided to do it in real life. Society and parents are well aware that "tag" could involve "inappropriate" touching of a male student and a female student. Then of course he says: It was only a game of tag, I did not "mean" to touch her breast. Or her bottom. After all I was just playing, it is not my fault, tag is "innocent". Well tell that to the girls that this boys and others "have sexually" assaulted in the form "of tag".

As for Halloween costumes, could it be that "young" kids could be scared. Could it be that some parents "don't like the Pagan" ritual, that "their religious values are "not in sync" with pagan rituals. As for Christmas parties, those belong in school where everyone is Christian and celebrates Christmas. No need to impose Christmas in "public" school where everyone is not Christian and celebrates the birth of Christ. Because if that is the case, then every holiday of every faith of every child in that school should be celebrated, not just "the popular" one.

Did we all turn out bad? Probably not all, just the percentage that are criminals in any way shape or form. Do you know how many kids from "long" ago grew up to be criminals and used guns. I guess you don't. But suffice to say, gun violence has increase a great deal in the USA, since the 1960's.

Oh I was just reading how 3 people were shot in assoication a school related event sports event. Silly me and I thought handguns "were for those criminal".

But wait, what would have happened if this person did not access to guns, and acted upon it. My, my the headline would not have "read" three people shot. There would not have been a headline.

Why don't you let your young kids play adult video games. You know apparently those "violent" games have nothing to do with "real violence", but gee do you think it is rated as Mature Teen and or Adult because it is violent.

Go figure. Should kids not be able to "play" violent video games, after all I am sure they will not turn out "violent" or have ideas of violence, due to "just" a game.

 

[Squishified]

This is nuts.... don't little boys NORMALLY play games like cowboys and indians or cops and robbers? All the boys I knew in grade school did and it wasn't a problem. Things we did growing up are now punishable. Kids can't play tag, can't wear scary Halloween costumes, can't have Christmas parties at school. Did we all turn out bad? I think not.

I agree completely with you. I bet if someone looked at some of the pictures I drew as a kid, they would think I grew up to be a serial killer.

 

[eve]

He did communicate the threat, he gave his drawing to another kid who showed it to his parents, who were concerned enough to "be responsible" and report the kid.

snip

The story does not say that the name scribbled opposite "me" was the other boy. The artist's mom said he said the drawing depicted a water gun.

Maybe the kid wanted to play water gun sometime with the other kid! That's a twisted fantasy isn't it?

Do you know the facts here? I am sure glad you are not a judge. If we are going to hold kids to such a ridiculously impossible standard of conduct we better start employing the Federal Rules of Evidence.

Maybe the kid was mad at the other kid, or some other kid, for that matter. Boy, when I was little, kids did a lot worse things to each other than this. Like throwing rocks, beating each other up, snuggies, swirlies, all kinds of stuff! And yes, I remember distinctly the "bang bang you're dead" gesture. C'mon. I would need much more than this to determine dark, sinister intent.

Depending on the facts here, this kid's parents could have a right to be quite angry at the suspension, although I bet they're going along with it to be p.c. and to get it behind them.

Again, give me more facts. Not enough to convict. This kind of knee-jerk reaction by the parents and the school is nearing hysteria.

Eve

 

[zadari]

its ironic how when i was a kid drawing a stick figure holding a gun and ect was thought to be oh they must be drawing cowboys and indians . now its omg they want to kill everyone .. i dunno about the world sometimes

 

[eve]

its ironic how when i was a kid drawing a stick figure holding a gun and ect was thought to be oh they must be drawing cowboys and indians . now its omg they want to kill everyone .. i dunno about the world sometimes

Hey zadari, Cowboys and Indians could get them lassooed or scalped these days too!

Eve