30 U.S. troops die in Afghanistan

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Kat said:
For some reason I was under the impression that the Chinook was in either a landing pattern or a ascending pattern when it took the hit.

Thank you for the article OCB. When a chinook is in that type of pattern it is particularly venerable. It's a huge helicopter for one thing and that makes it bulky and difficult to do the evasive maneuvers that are used by all helicopters when flying over "combat" areas. I just used the word combat because I can't think of the one they use themselves. So they kind of got to get up in the air a bit to start the evasive maneuvering. KWIM? JMHO and we were with aviation for almost a decade and son is currently aviation but we aren't Navy and neither is a seal.

This has greatly upset me so I haven't read a lot or watched it on TV. Our son is due to return next year and I never watch the news about the deployments when my Husband is deployed either (he is right now but not to there). I know it sounds self centered and selfish but I can't function and do what I need to do here if I'm so upset about what is happening there.

This did make me cry hard for all those families.
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I understand totally, Kat. I don't think it is self centered at all. No doubt about it the loved ones left behind love and worry about their love ones safety constantly. But from what my son has told me they didn't have time to be fearful. They had to fully concentrate on the duties they had to preform. Fear can interfere with critical decision making.

Our only son went overseas twice and each time I seem to pray constantly and was so scared for his safety continuously. He flew missions in Bosnia and Iraq on a CH-53 which is even bigger than the C-47. His type of helicopter was the one who went in while taking on fire and rescued Scott O'Grady when his plane went down. It can hold up to 51 people not counting the pilot/co-pilot, crew chief and aerial observer. While the CH-53 is one of the most awesome helicopters I have ever seen it can be very vulnerable to attacks merely because it is almost a hundred feet long and 20 feet high with 7 massive blades.

The Chinook does not have the power or the speed of the CH-53 so it is even more vulnerable to attack.

From what I understand about this accident the Seals were coming in to rescue some Army Rangers that were taking on fire from the insurgents. They had done their job and were in the middle of leaving the area when hit by the Taliban.

My heart goes out to each and every family who has lost their loved ones.

My prayers goes out to the ones that still fight on and are in danger day and day out. I respect them totally for their ultimate decision to fight for their country even knowing it puts them in harms way.

They serve/served. I didn't. So I must live my life the best way I can so that I feel I am a person worth fighting for. They deserve no less from all Americans who enjoys the freedoms they fight for us to have.
 
Oceanblueyes, thank you. You've said pretty much the same as Vaughn's father and mother did this morning on the Today show. Born and raised in a Navy town (where SEAL team 6 is located) few understand their mindset. These men believed in the war they were fighting.
 
lizzybeth said:
Oceanblueyes, thank you. You've said pretty much the same as Vaugh's father and mother did this morning on the Today show. Born and raised in a Navy town (where SEAL team 6 is located) few understand their mindset. These men believed in the war they were fighting.
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Thanks lizzybeth.

I think his father said it best.

God bless them all.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Our only son went overseas twice and each time I seem to pray constantly and was so scared for his safety continuously. He flew missions in Bosnia and Iraq on a CH-53 which is even bigger than the C-47. His type of helicopter was the one who went in while taking on fire and rescued Scott O'Grady when his plane went down. It can hold up to 51 people not counting the pilot/co-pilot, crew chief and aerial observer. While the CH-53 is one of the most awesome helicopters I have ever seen it can be very vulnerable to attacks merely because it is almost a hundred feet long and 20 feet high with 7 massive blades.

The Chinook does not have the power or the speed of the CH-53 so it is even more vulnerable to attack.

.
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OBE,

First of all, thank you to your son for his outstanding service.

My son currently works on the Navy's HM-53E's, the Sea Dragons...a derivative of the CH-53's. Awesome birds and absolutely huge!

God bless all those who are hurting with this loss of great servicemembers. I was just devastated to hear the news. Their loved ones are in my prayers.

DD
 
One was local to Utah.


BLANDING, San Juan County -- A U.S. military helicopter was shot down Saturday, killing at least 30 Americans. One of those killed was an Elite Navy SEAL from a southeastern Utah community.Petty Officer First Class Jason Workman, 32, was a member of the Elite Navy SEALs Six team who served in the Navy for eight years. Workman grew up in Blanding and friends say it was his dream to be a Navy SEAL.

More at link:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=16709676

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=16709676&nid=460&page=1#4
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Vaughn family speaks out....
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I certainly have no objection to your linking to the Vaughn family's remarks.

But you were the one who informed me that this isn't a "political" thread. In his remarks, the surviving Mr. Vaughn (the father) made a similar statement that this isn't a time for "politics."

I can't help but notice that if any of us question a war we are accused of being "political," while those who support a war are always "patriotic."

This is a use of language that gets people killed.

------

ETA this post was very clumsily worded. I should have thanked oceanblueeyes for linking rather than just saying I "do not objective." I am thanking her here.

And I should have been clearer that I am not criticizing Mr. Vaughn for his remarks. He is a grieving father and I don't for a moment doubt his account of his son's belief in the importance of a war against Islamic fundamentalism. Nor do I doubt his assertion that other members of Seal Team 6 felt and feel the same.

But there is a dangerous paradox in American society: nobody questions our wars when everyone is alive; but when people are dead, it is suddenly disrespectful to question our wars. So wars aren't questioned and the Afghan war is in its 10th year and now seems certain to drag on longer than the American portion of the Vietnam War.
 
I put this thread up so others could know of the tragic loss and if they wished they could express their sympathies concerning the lives lost of these great American heroes.

Imo the father of Navy Seal Vaughn is right when he voiced his opinion that he hopes others doesn't make it political.

It is all about mourning and respecting the lives lost and what they stood for.

All of the family members that have spoken out thus far have said they were proud of their loved ones and knew they died doing what they believed in.

It is a time to mourn and respect what they did for our country and not make the lives lost into being a political issue.

IMO
 
Nova said:
I certainly have no objection to your linking to the Vaughn family's remarks.

But you were the one who informed me that this isn't a "political" thread. In his remarks, the surviving Mr. Vaughn (the father) made a similar statement that this isn't a time for "politics."

I can't help but notice that if any of us question a war we are accused of being "political," while those who support a war are always "patriotic."

This is a use of language that gets people killed.

------

ETA this post was very clumsily worded. I should have thanked oceanblueeyes for linking rather than just saying I "do not objective." I am thanking her here.

And I should have been clearer that I am not criticizing Mr. Vaughn for his remarks. He is a grieving father and I don't for a moment doubt his account of his son's belief in the importance of a war against Islamic fundamentalism. Nor do I doubt his assertion that other members of Seal Team 6 felt and feel the same.

But there is a dangerous paradox in American society: nobody questions our wars when everyone is alive; but when people are dead, it is suddenly disrespectful to question our wars. So wars aren't questioned and the Afghan war is in its 10th year and now seems certain to drag on longer than the American portion of the Vietnam War.
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People have a right in this country to question anything they want to Nova. Our servicemen and women fight and die for us to have that right.

However; IMOO that should be done in a political thread/forum rather than on this thread.

Imo, this one is about mourning the death of heroes who fully believed in what they did. They had a purpose and that purpose is to keep America safe from the insurgents that want to harm us. Military families are strong, committed and supportive. They know how their loved one feels/felt and none of them think they died in vain.

IMO
 
ocean, you managed to ignore my remarks and prove them right all in the same posts.

Your views aren't apolitical just because you say they are or because you say what the survivors of the dead want to hear. Your views are just as political as mine.

And I'm saying the best way to honor the deaths of 30 servicemen is to evaluate carefully what we are asking our troops to do.

Mr. Vaughn says the dead believed Islamic fundamentalism needs to be opposed. I agree. But is a ground presence in Afghanistan the best way to oppose it? Or are we actually feeding Islamic fundamentalism just as the British and Soviets did before us?

These are questions we should be discussing, especially now when the price being paid weighs so heavily on our hearts and minds.
 
Nova said:
ocean, you managed to ignore my remarks and prove them right all in the same posts.

Your views aren't apolitical just because you say they are or because you say what the survivors of the dead want to hear. Your views are just as political as mine.

And I'm saying the best way to honor the deaths of 30 servicemen is to evaluate carefully what we are asking our troops to do.

Mr. Vaughn says the dead believed Islamic fundamentalism needs to be opposed. I agree. But is a ground presence in Afghanistan the best way to oppose it? Or are we actually feeding Islamic fundamentalism just as the British and Soviets did before us?

These are questions we should be discussing, especially now when the price being paid weighs so heavily on our hearts and minds.
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You are mistaken Nova. My posts are not about politics whatsoever but making sure I take the time to remember these heros who have died doing what they believed was right. That is their view point whether you disagree with them or not. They do not try to change your views nor will you be able to change theirs.

And I do know you have the right to question the war efforts.

But for me there is a time and place for everything and for me personally all I want to make sure that I do is mourn the loss of those who have fallen. That's all. Its not about the war. It is about supporting the military armed services and what they believe in.

I know they could all come home and possibly lose their lives in vehicle accidents since we lose so many more citizens each year that way..than we do in war.

If they didn't volunteer to do this then maybe I would think differently but there isn't one of them that doesn't know the dangers that awaits them when they join.

IMO
 
I fail to see where Oceanblueeyes has stated any political opinion other than what Mr. Vaughn said his son's beliefs were. They were Serviceman Vaughn's beliefs not Oceanblueeyes.
I don't frequent the political threads and came to this one because as OBE said, "It is all about mourning and respecting the lives lost and what they stood for."

Can we please keep the discussion about the validity of the war on the political threads. Please?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
You are mistaken Nova. My posts are not about politics whatsoever but making sure I take the time to remember these heros who have died doing what they believed was right. That is their view point whether you disagree with them or not. They do not try to change your views nor will you be able to change theirs.

And I do know you have the right to question the war efforts.

But for me there is a time and place for everything and for me personally all I want to make sure that I do is mourn the loss of those who have fallen. That's all. Its not about the war. It is about supporting the military armed services and what they believe in.

I know they could all come home and possibly lose their lives in vehicle accidents since we lose so many more citizens each year that way..than we do in war.

If they didn't volunteer to do this then maybe I would think differently but there isn't one of them that doesn't know the dangers that awaits them when they join.IMO
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(above bbm)
I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said here, with the possible exception of the remark I bolded. My son is 23 years old. While he knows (I know he "knows") that he may lose his life while serving in our armed forces, I doubt that he, like many his age and younger, fully appreciate that statement. They know they can die, however, they're still young enough to think they're invincible, and that it won't happen to them. I am sure that I wouldn't feel this way, if I hadn't raised a 23-year-old male. Their frontal lobes don't even fully develop until they're 25.

********

The families of those who lost their lives have my sincerest condolences and prayers.
 
Story about two best friends who died together:

LAKEWOOD, Calif. (KTLA) -- A Southern California father is remembering his son, who was among the 22 U.S. Navy SEALs killed when their helicopter crashed in Afghanistan.

Lt. Cmdr. Jonas Kelsall, 33, trained in San Diego and was one of the first members of SEAL Team 7, his father told the Shreveport Times newspaper.

His father, John Kelsall, is the president and CEO of Lakewood's Chamber of Commerce and, according to friends, was always talking about his son, the Navy SEAL.

Also killed in the crash was Jonas Kelsall's best friend, 32-year-old Chief Petty Officer Robert James Reeves, family members confirmed to the Shreveport Times.

Reeves was a member of SEAL Team 6, the elite unit that carried out the operation that killed Osama bin Laden.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-lakewood-navy-seal-chopper-crash,0,1059415.story?track=rss
 
oh gal, thank you for your son's service and for the sacrifice that not only he makes but his family and loved ones too. Twenty-three seems so young (and it is). I'm sure no one that hasn't been to war before has a true picture of what it's like. I wish the world were a place where none of us would have to know the horrors of war. Unfortunately, that has/and will never happen. Thank God that we have brave people, like your son, that will fight for our country.
 
I heard on the news this morning that the return home of our soldiers wouldn't be televised because they still needed to be identified because of the explosion. It gave me some consolation that hopefully it was quick and none of them knew what happened.
I heard one ex-SEAL say that they are always in control of a situation unless they're flying. They're not used to NOT being in control and giving that control over to someone else is very difficult for them.

I'm hoping that the City of Virginia Beach will build some type of memorial for these brave men (and the dog that was also killed).
 
http://ht.ly/5ZkVs

My father was one of the 30 US Soldiers killed in Afghanistan yesterday with the Seals rescue mission. My father was the pilot of the chinook. I have seen other pictures of victims from this deadly mission and wish you would include a picture of my father. He is the farthest to the left.

Sincerely,
B. N., 10 yrs old
Kansas City, MO
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I took this child's name out myself. I'm so sorry sweetheart.
 
lizzybeth said:
I fail to see where Oceanblueeyes has stated any political opinion other than what Mr. Vaughn said his son's beliefs were. They were Serviceman Vaughn's beliefs not Oceanblueeyes.
I don't frequent the political threads and came to this one because as OBE said, "It is all about mourning and respecting the lives lost and what they stood for."

Can we please keep the discussion about the validity of the war on the political threads. Please?
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BBM: this is the problem: saying nothing is just as "political" as voicing opposition to or support for a war. This is not in any way a criticism of oceanbreeze or anything she has posted; the fact is I agree with her posts (except for this issue as to the definition and place of "politics").

But we all need to know that saying nothing is also a political act. Always.

So, no, I don't think discussion about the validity of the war should be confined to a place where the vast majority of posters can ignore it. Not if we are going to acknowledge and honor or mourn casualties here. Honoring the dead without discussing why they died is simply to rubber stamp their deaths as "necessary".

Last night I watched a veteran of the Afghan War say that while we are fighting there to allow the Kabul government to take over defense of the countryside, the Kabul government is abandoning defensive posts to the Taliban as soon as we relinquish them.

We betray our obligation to our brave volunteers if we merely do the easy thing and say what their survivors want to hear.
 
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