30th Anniversary of the "Revolutionary Suicide" at Jonestown

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by MagicRose99, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. MagicRose99

    MagicRose99 Watch out for my thorns!

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    Jim Jones' followers enthralled by his skills as a speaker

    (CNN) -- The key to understanding the tragedy that was Jonestown lies in the oratory skills of the Peoples Temple founder, Jim Jones.

    With the cadence and fervor of a Baptist preacher, the charm and folksiness of a country storyteller and the zeal and fury of a maniacal dictator, Jones exhorted his followers to a fever pitch, audiotapes recovered from Jonestown reveal.

    As he spoke, they applauded, shouted, cheered. One follower who survived the "revolutionary suicide" at Jonestown on November 18, 1978, said that Jones was the most dynamic speaker he had ever heard.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/13/jonestown.jim.jones/index.html
     
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  3. Lisahas2cats

    Lisahas2cats New Member

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    It absolutely horrifies me that so many of the victims of that mass murder (because it can't really be called mass suicide) are still unidentified....and most of those are children :(
     
  4. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight New Member

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    I did a fairly exhaustive report on this back in school, and it's always sort of affected me, I guess, whenever I hear about it, as I delved pretty deeply into the facts for the report, and it was just so disturbing. Not all 900 were voluntary, many had the Kool Aid forced down their throats by fellow cult members, IIRC. It's also a reason I dislike the phrase "drink the Kool Aid" that people use now to describe people who blindly follow a leader. That Kool Aid killed 900 people! And not all voluntary! It's an inappropriate phrase, in my opinion, given the scope of the tragedy.
     
  5. Lisahas2cats

    Lisahas2cats New Member

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    If I remember correctly...and since you've read about it pretty extensively, you can fill in my blanks....but didn't Jones insist on feeding the babies and children the poison first, to help insure (ensure?) that the parents would go along with it, knowing their children's deaths would end *their* will to live?

    I was 8 years old when this happened, and it's the first strong memory I have of what was on television. It seemed like every night for years (probably more like a week, but you know how it is when you're a kid) they were showing that horrible footage :(
     
  6. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight New Member

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    Yes the babies and children were killed first. Those parents who wouldn't go through with it would have it done for them, IIRC. But yes, the plan was for the children to die first.
     
  7. Shecky

    Shecky New Member

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    I'm watching the story on CNN right now. This happened before I was born, but I've heard a bit about it over the years. How horrible.
     
  8. gm8549

    gm8549 New Member

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    I can't believeit has already been 30 years! I remember watching as this unfolded as breaking news on television. Horrifying!
     
  9. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ New Member

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    Me too. I was 14 years old and it was the very first case I followed the news on.
     
  10. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    Silver-tongued devil.
     
  11. kline

    kline New Member

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    I was in High School when this happened.
    I cant beleive its been 30 years!
    This is one of the most horrific events in the last 50 years.
    The sheer number of dead is hard to get one's mind around.
    And so many children.
    Jones was pure banal Evil through and through.
    Anyone who isnt familiar with the circumstances surrounding this tragedy there is quite a bit about it on the net and in the archives of Time and Newsweek and I think Crime Library as well. There is a recording of Jones urging his followers to commit suicide after the ambush at the airstrip I think on Youtube.
     
  12. cazador

    cazador New Member

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    Jones was a Socialist/Communist
    He was highly trusted and admired by people in San Francisco at that time.
    The same kind of crowd we have today in San Francisco.
    The mayor of San Francisco should be in jail for his currant deeds.mo.
    It is the same kind of person who follows the Reverend Moon. Who is now up and operating again and resides in Paraguay. It is the same kind of person who believes in Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Who was elected by electronic vote machines corrupted to give him the advantage. The creator of that vote machine software, a American, died in Venezuela in a plane crash.
    The South American area is still a hotbed for dictators who want to gain power and control over others and to gain great wealth through the efforts of others, or by taking what others possess.
    There was no particular reason for what Jones did that day.
    There was no direct threat to him. There was no police force after him and there was no army after him. He was only going to be interviewed and asked questions. His paranoia may have had to do with drugs, but who really knows.
    Never look to another Human Being as the Messiah or God person, they are only men with corrupted souls. Never the less weak minds reach out for others to lead them.. and right off the edge of the cliff they go every time.:bang:
     
  13. kline

    kline New Member

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    It kind of reminds me of the Dynamic we saw with Charles Manson and Waco if you keep your followers in line with fear and paranoia because 'they' are comming to get us (in Manson's case it was blacks and the police. Waco the Federal Government.Jones had a thing about the CIA)
    Its that you have to keep raising the level of fear otherwise it starts to become the norm and less effective .
    Often it becomes a self fullfilling prophesy.
    They start doing things that makes 'Them' come after the group.
    You know, if your afraid of ATF agents perhaps stockpilling illegal weapons and threatening Federal Judges through the mail isnt the wisest course of action.
     
  14. cazador

    cazador New Member

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    Dark clouds tumbled overhead on that afternoon 30 years ago, in the last hours of the congressman's mission deep in the jungle of Guyana.
    With a small entourage, Rep. Leo Ryan had come to investigate the remote agricultural settlement built by a California-based church. But while he was there, more than a dozen people had stepped forward: We want to return to the United States, they said fearfully.
    Suddenly a powerful wind tore through the central pavilion, riffling pages of my notebook, and the skies dumped torrents that bowed plantain fronds. People scrambled for cover as I interviewed the founder of Peoples Temple.
    "I feel sorry that we are being destroyed from within," intoned the Rev. Jim Jones, stunned that members of his flock wanted to abandon the place he called the Promised Land.
    That freakish storm and the mood seemed ominous — and not just to me. "I felt evil itself blow into Jonestown when that storm hit," recalls Tim Carter, one of the few settlers to survive that day.
    Within hours, Carter would see his wife and son die of cyanide poisoning, two of the more than 900 people Jones led in a murder and suicide ritual of epic proportions.
    And I would be wounded when a team of temple assassins unleashed a fusillade that killed Ryan — the first congressman slain in the line of dutytreat to Jonestown for what would be his last stand.
    Yulanda Williams was about 12 when she began attending temple services in San Francisco with her parents. Her father, lured by Jones' reputation as a Christian prophet with healing powers, believed that the minister helped him recover from a heart attack.
    In 1977, as news media were beginning to investigate disciplinary thrashings and other abuse in the temple, Jones summoned Williams and her husband to Guyana.
    Upon arrival in Jonestown, the couple felt deceived. It was far from the paradise Jones described. People were packed into metal-roofed cabins, sleeping on bunks without mattresses and using outhouses with newsprint for toilet paper. There were armed guards, and Jones warned that deserters would encounter venomous snakes and hostile natives.
    The preacher, who once charmed U.S. politicians and met with future first lady Rosalynn Carter, had turned into a pill-popping dictator who sadistically presided over harsh discipline. "I felt like I was in a concentration camp and he was Hitler," Williams said.
    Because her husband was an attorney whose skills could be better used elsewhere, they were permitted to leave after a few weeks. And months before the horrific end, Williams and her family cut ties with the temple.
    Eventually, Williams joined the San Francisco Police Department. But she told no one about her temple involvement for a decade because she feared the loss of her job. When she finally confided to a deputy chief, "He said, 'No way,' because everybody had this stereotype" about the kinds of people who were members of Peoples Temple, she recalled.
    In fact, these were mostly ordinary people who joined the temple because they wanted to help their fellow man and be part of something larger than themselves.
    Williams thrived as a policewoman. The department needed officers to connect with gang members and other juveniles in trouble with the law. "I told my story to young people," said Williams. "They were amazed because they never imagined anyone could beat these types of odds."
    ———
    On the morning of Nov. 18, Ryan's party was about to tour the settlement, and investigate whether its inhabitants truly were free to go.
    Leslie Wilson, wife of security chief Joe Wilson, took her 3-year-old son Jakari to the kitchen building where they met seven others who had endured enough of Jonestown's Spartan life and Jones' faked sieges and suicide rehearsals. The group told fellow settlers they were going on a picnic — but they just kept on moving through the jungle, with Jakari slung in a sheet on Wilson's back.
    "I was so scared I was shaking in my tennis shoes," she recalled. "I was waiting for a gunshot and a bullet and me dropping."
    Concealed by thick undergrowth, the escapees passed so close to the Jonestown guard shack that they could hear voices. Trudging 35 miles along railroad tracks, they arrived sweaty and dirty that night in the town of Matthews Ridge.
    Wilson, who lost her mother, brother, sister and husband that Saturday, would be consumed with survivor's guilt.
    On Mother's Day, two years after Jonestown, she thought about what it must have been like for her mother to see two of her children die. She put a pistol to her head.
    She did not shoot. She had to live, she decided, for the sake of her son.
    After a bout with drug abuse, she twice married and bore two more children.
    Now divorced, she goes by her married name Leslie Cathey and works in the health care industry. She finally has found forgiveness, even for Jones, but she cannot forget. "I pray my family did not think I left them," she said. "Not a day goes by that I don't think about it."
    ———
    While a temple dump truck ferried the Ryan party and 15 grim-faced defectors toward the Port Kaituma airstrip six miles away, we were unaware that anyone had escaped. But at Jonestown's front gate, Joe Wilson inspected the crowded truck bed, looking for his wife and toddler.
    We made it safely to the dirt strip. But then, a tractor with a trailer full of temple gunmen — Wilson among them — soon bore down on us. Gunfire exploded as we boarded two small planes.
    Ryan died. So did defector Patricia Parks, NBC newsmen Don Harris and Bob Brown, and photographer Greg Robinson, my colleague at the San Francisco Examiner.
    I was shot in the left forearm and wrist. That night those of us who were ambulatory took turns tending to the most severely wounded in a tent by the airstrip: The NBC soundman. A temple defector who someday would become a policeman. A concerned relative whose sister was a Jones mistress. And Ryan aide Jackie Speier, who would go on to a long career as a California lawmaker before being elected to his seat in Congress this year.
    Some survivors had fled into the jungle but most took refuge in a cramped rum shop, fearful the assassins would return. "You're gonna see the worst carnage of your life at Jonestown," predicted one of the defectors the next morning. "It's called 'revolutionary suicide."'
    ———
    By the time the airstrip gunmen he went to live with his father in Boise, Idaho. Walking on the street, he felt that others looked at him with loathing and fear. Friends from his youth on the San Francisco Peninsula, where he had introduced some people to the temple, called him a murderer or refused to speak with him.
    Though he listed Peoples Temple on his resume, Carter landed a job at a travel agency and worked in the industry for many years. He has had two long-term relationships and is the father of three children. He collects disability payments for post-traumatic stress from Vietnam, but he reflects on the nightmare of Jonestown each day.
    "The more time that goes on, the better it is," he said. "I can think about Gloria and Malcolm without feeling that knife in my chest."
    ———
    Late on the afternoon of Nov. 18, a coded radio message from Jones was transmitted to the temple's house in Georgetown: Some Jonestown residents had betrayed them, and he wanted the faithful to kill temple enemies. Then members in the Guyanese capital and San Francisco — a couple of hundred people — should commit suicide.
    Bay Area businessman Sherwin Harris had sat down for supper at the house with his teenage daughter Liane and his ex-wife Sharon Amos' two other children.
    Oblivious to Jones' dire orders, Harris felt hopeful and upbeat. He had traveled to Guyana with the Ryan party to check on his daughter's welfare and, after several days of trying, was finally able to see her in person.
    Harris and his daughter discussed plans to spend the next day together, touring Georgetown.
    Later, Harris took a cab back to his hotel, his spirits lifted by the visit. But that night police informed him that his daughter, Amos and her two other children were dead.
    "It felt like the swing of a sledge hammer full on to my chest," he said. "How could this be? I just left her."
    eying the humanity of temple members she feels were dehumanized by photos of their bodies and dismissed as robotic cultists.
    Moore thinks her sisters, socially conscious daughters of a minister, were true temple believers to the end. Still, she cannot fathom how they could have joined in planning murders and suicides.
    "Jones did not buy the poison and mix it," she said. "Others tested it on pigs. Others, including my sisters, wrote letters about how to kill people. ... What is baffling is why people would participate in something so inhumane."
    ———
    Thirty years later, dozens of surviving members come together for private reunions because they still value their friendship, the temple's sense of community and their utopian dream of a world free of racism and injustice.
    "I go because I feel so strongly about the need for and power of forgiveness and understanding," said Stephan Jones, the minister's son. He was 19, and in Georgetown with other basketball team members on the temple's last day. "I've come to believe a group of people can see the same thing and each come away with a completely different perspective and all be right in the moment," he said. "We had ideas of a greater mission, and now we have found a way to be together that is harmonious and healing and are better able to make a difference in the world."
    Today, he is the father of three daughters and is the vice president of a small Bay Area office installation and services company.
    In Jonestown's aftermath, Stephan hated his father. But he has come to recognize that the capacity for good and evil, and mental sickness, coexisted in Jones.
    "We don't want to face our own responsibility or part in what happened and feel ashamed for being duped or manipulated," he said. "We look for someone else to blame. I realized over time that there was a great need to forgive him, then I could forgive myself."
    The unidentifiable or unclaimed bodies of more than 400 of Jonestown's dead, most of them children, are interred in a mass grave at an Oakland Cemetery overlooking San Francisco Bay. Each year a memorial service is conducted on Nov. 18.
    Eugene Smith, who lost his wife, their infant son and his mother, went to the grave site years ago but has not returned. Fate had put him in Georgetown the day they perished, but he likes to think he would have resisted the madness in Jonestown, as he believes his wife did.
    Now working as a research analyst for California's transportation department, Smith has neither remarried nor fathered more children.
    "None of us are survivors; we just got away," he said. "For all of us who were not in Jonestown, part of us died there."
    EDITOR'S NOTE — Tim Reiterman, San Francisco news editor for The Associated Press, covered Jonestown for the San Francisco Examiner. He is the author with the late John Jacobs of "Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People," published by Tarcher/Penguin.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,452787,00.html

    The assassinations of Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk, and the Jonestown suicides occured within days in Nov. 1978. Those events forever transformed the city.

    Jones Captivated S.F.'s Liberal Elite

    They were late to discover how cunningly he curried favor

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1998/11/12/MN85578.DTL

    A different time BUT Still the same Liberal Elite Exists today in San Francisco.
    They are the same group that offers refuge to illegals aliens who are often criminals, no matter what the federal government wants..

    It is the same group that ignores the majority vote of the people of California in recent elections.. Still protesting today..

    We call them Liberals.. I am sure there is another word for them..:waitasec:
    Anyways.. That is my :twocents:
     
  15. cazador

    cazador New Member

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  16. panthera

    panthera Retired WS Staff

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    I've watched the 30 yr. anniversary documentaries on both msnbc and CNN and one of the most compelling stories of survival comes from Jackie Speier, who was a 28 y/o aide to Rep. Leo Ryan at the time. She survived massive injuries from being shot on the tarmac. She lay there for 22 hrs. enduring extreme pain, only being soothed by occasional sips of rum, before she was finally rescued and taken to a hospital. Today she holds Leo Ryan's seat in Congress, having been elected earlier this year. She's a hero, in my opinion.
    :rose::rose:
     
  17. PattyCake

    PattyCake Gypsy By Heart

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    Just such a horrific tragedy. And I am always concerned about the next time this happens with another cult. Lord help them all. We were not meant to follow any man on earth to such a devoted extent.

    No God would ever ask you to lay down your life. He gave us life and wants it to be joyous. I think what Jim Jones initially did in CA sounded wonderful, helping the elderly and disabled. But some dark power took him over and he wanted all control.
     
  18. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

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    Does anyone know what his drug of choice was? It was alluded to on the program that was on last night, but I didn't catch it if it was stated.
     
  19. MagicRose99

    MagicRose99 Watch out for my thorns!

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    I think it was cyanide, wasn't it?
     
  20. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

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    Hi there, Lady! I was referring though to the drug(s) that he was addicted to that added to his erratic and paranoid behavior prior to his mass murders.
     
  21. bertajo

    bertajo New Member

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    There have been statements that Jim Jones abused marijuana, speed, LSD, and other various drugs. His autopsy confirmed that he had elephant-like quantities of barbiturates in his system at his time of death.
     

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