4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[jepop]

Not sure, honestly. I haven't followed the Daybell-Vallow case very closely, which is the only other murder case in Idaho that could provide an example of judge selection.

Perhaps Judge John Judge is just presiding over the arraignment, or presided over the GJ and so is signing off on the court orders leading to the arraignment.

I'm guessing based on watching other cases that by the time there is a prospective trial, things could be different in terms of which judge is available and best qualified or suited for the type of trial it will be, but don't know, and the Idaho Criminal Rules available online don't seem that specific.

JMO

Thank you, that makes sense. I think I really just wanted to type His Honour Judge John Judge's name again although my question was also sincere and I appreciate your response!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Thank you, that makes sense. I think I really just wanted to type His Honour Judge John Judge's name again although my question was also sincere and I appreciate your response!

Me too

 

[gliving]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/opinion/editorials/article275530381.html

Secrecy of Kohberger grand jury keeps community in the dark even longer

The only reason that the people of Moscow and the students at the University of Idaho right now have to believe that the killer is in custody is from police convincing them that he did it. A preliminary hearing laying out at least part of the case was the chance to let the community know, and the state passed on that opportunity by going with a grand jury.

 

[PrairieWind]

Update in Bryan Kohberger case raises question about witnesses

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659126533171060736

Update in Bryan Kohberger case raises question about witnesses

"Some of those people, you never know what they're capable of," former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

On the same day that accused Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was indicted by a grand jury, the state issued an order sealing the names of witnesses who have testified in the case.

Kohberger, 28, is accused of fatally stabbing four University of Idaho students—Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Ethan Chapin, 20—in the early morning hours of November 13 in an off-campus rental home in Moscow, Idaho.

Charged with one felony count of burglary and four felony counts of murder in the first degree, he is expected to enter his plea at 9 a.m. Monday, Shanon Gray, an attorney for the Goncalves family, confirmed to Newsweek.

According to the motion made Wednesday and signed by prosecuting attorney William Thompson, the Third Judicial Court in the county of Latah has reportedly received numerous complaints from potential or prospective witnesses, as well as families and associates, regarding being harassed both in person and via social media—in addition to threats and what appears to be intimidation.

"Given this, and the broad publicity surrounding these proceedings, the State respectfully submits that releasing the names of the witness who appeared before the grand jury would invite additional harassment, intimidation and possible threats, and undermine not only the integrity of this case, but the parties' prospective rights to a fair trial with an impartial jury," the motion states.

The sealing of witnesses was agreed upon by Kohberger's defense counsel and also approved Wednesday.

That seems weird. Who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses? Its not like BK is part of a local gang. or are they being intimidated about something else? Very strange and sad. When cases are heavily publicized like this one, you always get some weirdos coming out of the woodwork. But these must be threats that more than just that.

 

[10ofRods]

I find the focus on harm to witnesses curious. We can guess some of the witnesses, but I am perplexed as to why anyone feels they could be in danger or from whom. We know of one suspect, who is in jail and BK groupies who think he's innocent. Are those groupies known to be dangerous? This is one of the things that makes me think there is something more complex out there that the public isn't privy to.

<modsnip - no link from an approved source>

Judges know that this goes on, IMO (after talking to many judges over decades).

I believe the Court should err on the side of caution, and that the potential witnesses deserve to be able to sleep as soundly as they can after this horrific crime. The job of the Courts (and LE) is to protect us. I can't imagine what it would be like to already take measures (such as moving out of state or moving out of Moscow, ID, if witnesses have done that) and still wake up to a bag of poop on my front porch. I don't care how small the threatening gesture is, the witnesses should not have their whereabouts tracked by these weirdos (and I feel very badly for BF, as her general location is now known; she's very likely to be called as a witness at trial, IMO and is obviously very uncomfortable with that - the least she deserves is privacy in the meantime).

IMO. As an anthropologist who studies legal matters, when I study a case closely, one of my main focuses is the online representation of the case and the ways in which various groups react to crime. FB vs. WS vs other platforms gives an interesting perspective on many things. I could say a lot about what I didn't observe, as well, but I definitely observed whack-a-doos talking online in a threatening manner. <modsnip - no link from an approved source>

Naturally, WS comes out on top as the most well-informed of these forums and is, IMO, the only place where members actually keep up on the legal processes and ask questions like yours. It's a good question, but I do believe there's an answer (I'm thinking of one judge I know, now retired, who would certainly have put the lockdown on witness identities, as he did throughout his career, for many reasons).

 

[10ofRods]

Here is a link to the Latah County Grand Jury's webpage. It's not particularly informative and I'm still looking for more.

Grand Juries | Idaho Fourth Judicial District Court

fourthjudicialcourt.idaho.gov

In many jurisdictions, the Grand Jury issues an annual report, giving the case numbers and the name of the case (State vs. so and so). I can't find that for the Latah County Grand Jury. In some states, the Grand Jury also issues an annual report (and I'll check to see if some of the more populated counties in Idaho do this). In the annual report, they give an overview not of the testimony, but of the laws involved in making the decision. Grand Juries get schooled on law, where I live. They give findings about criminal indictments, of course, but they also make recommendations to lawmakers where appropriate (gaps in the law, etc). They read statutes that are local, statewide and sometimes federal.

The selection process for a Grand Jury in Idaho is rather different to my own home states or any state I've worked in.

Rule 6. Formation of the Grand Jury | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Here is part of the process:

On motion by the prosecuting attorney to summon a grand jury, a district judge assigned by the Administrative District Judge may order that a grand jury be impaneled within any county of the judicial district at such times as the public interest requires. Sixteen grand jurors must be selected as provided in the Uniform Jury Selection and Service Act, Chapter 2 of Title 2, Idaho Code. The selection of the grand jury must take place in a closed session with only a district judge, the prosecuting attorneys, the prospective jurors, the reporter or recorder, a clerk of the court, and any required interpreter present.

The jurors are chosen randomly from the regular pool of jurors in a county. The verdict does not have to be unanimous, as I understand it. They are summoned in the same way as regular jurors, but notified it is to be a Grand Jury.

16 jurors must be impaneled, 12 must be present to make a quorum for a particular matter. The verdict does not have to be unanimous.

Section 2-212 of Idaho Code (link below) states that any irregularities (non-random choice of a jury) can be reported to the Judge overseeing the process in a motion to quash, which shall be granted if the process is not clearly random. Use of automated randomizing systems is authorized (but it can also be manual - which seems unlikely in most cases).

The Jury Commissioner and the Clerk of the Court are charged with overseeing and documenting this process.

It appears to me that the only route for quashing a Grand Jury indictment is to show that the Jury Commissioner or Clerk of the Court committed an error and to have sworn witness proof of it.

I can't figure out exactly how many they pull into a Grand Jury pool, but the Code does say that before jurors come in actual appearance, they fill out a questionnaire which is the same questionnaire, statewide (and approved by the State Supreme Court). Jurors who do not speak English, whose disabilities prevent them from serving, are not US citizens, etc., will not be called). Otherwise, it's random.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/statutesrules/idstat/Title2/T2CH2.pdf

I found this interesting, as it is different from state to state. The GJ is held without notice to the defense or the public.

IMO.

 

[Gemmie]

That seems weird. Who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses? Its not like BK is part of a local gang. or are they being intimidated about something else? Very strange and sad. When cases are heavily publicized like this one, you always get some weirdos coming out of the woodwork. But these must be threats that more than just that.

Re: who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses...?

Plain and simple? Internet trolls IMO. They either think they know it all (but don't) or they are just plain mean. Or a little of both. It's SM's ugly side and why SM isn't allowed on this site, thank goodness! The Mods do a wonderful job of keeping this site pleasant to be on by keeping rumor and SM off the site.

All MOO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

That seems weird. Who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses? Its not like BK is part of a local gang. or are they being intimidated about something else? Very strange and sad. When cases are heavily publicized like this one, you always get some weirdos coming out of the woodwork. But these must be threats that more than just that.

I keep seeing this question asked, who could possibly be sending these threats!? And here is the answer:

Bryan Kohberger has a large and inexplicable online following/fanbase/whatever you want to call it. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s significant enough that a whole subreddit of his “fans” was shut down on Reddit, and that event was covered in mainstream media. Those people are still present in other subs (and obviously on other forums). They are the ones cheering on anything that looks like it might exonerate him, and getting as close as they can to “dirtying up” the victims without getting posts removed.

(I also assume there’s an element of hybristophilia happening, meaning some percentage of these people are “team Bryan” whether he did it or not.)

Why? I couldn’t begin to tell you. He doesn’t look particularly charismatic to me. He’s young and tall, but beyond that? There must be something, because these same people *do not care* about Richard Allen (alleged Delphi murderer) even though there is a similar lack of hard info that has been released in that similarly brutal case.

But Richard Allen, of course, is short and balding and middle aged.

 

[Gemmie]

I keep seeing this question asked, who could possibly be sending these threats!? And here is the answer:

Bryan Kohberger has a large and inexplicable online following/fanbase/whatever you want to call it. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s significant enough that a whole subreddit of his “fans” was shut down on Reddit, and that event was covered in mainstream media. Those people are still present in other subs (and obviously on other forums). They are the ones cheering on anything that looks like it might exonerate him, and getting as close as they can to “dirtying up” the victims without getting posts removed.

(I also assume there’s an element of hybristophilia happening, meaning some percentage of these people are “team Bryan” whether he did it or not.)

Why? I couldn’t begin to tell you. He doesn’t look particularly charismatic to me. He’s young and tall, but beyond that? There must be something, because these same people *do not care* about Richard Allen (alleged Delphi murderer) even though there is a similar lack of hard info that has been released in that similarly brutal case.

But Richard Allen, of course, is short and balding and middle aged.

Yeah, like I had put it simply... Internet trolls. Although I like everyone's longer answers too. Like @10ofRods' posts.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Yeah, like I had put it simply... Internet trolls.

To me, “trolls” implies people who are just causing trouble online because they like causing trouble online. IMO, some of Bryan Kohlberger’s “fans” are true believers. Either they believe that he’s innocent because (reasons?), or they are simply infatuated with him whether he’s guilty or not (but would like for him to be freed either way).

 

[arielilane]

That seems weird. Who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses? Its not like BK is part of a local gang. or are they being intimidated about something else? Very strange and sad. When cases are heavily publicized like this one, you always get some weirdos coming out of the woodwork. But these must be threats that more than just that.

It's weird, but am understanding this process more now.

I know it's daily mail, but just a few days ago DM posted article about BK receiving "love letters." Perhaps BK supporters most likely are threatening witnesses?

Could you be so kind and advise if grand jury is mainly done secretly and much of it will not be disclosed to the public? TIA

Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger receives flood of love letters

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four near the University of Idaho campus, has received more than two dozen 'handwritten' love letters as he awaits trial for the brutal killings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Corrupted1967]

Sources telling us Kohberger will appear in court Monday morning - he will enter a plea - in all likelihood that will be “not guilty” at which point a trial date will be set #idahohomicides #idahomurders

Other local reaction from Moscow - people saying they are happy the surviving roommates were protected (by the decision to present case to Grand Jury)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658885606062325760

https://twitter.com/KaynaWhitworth

I'm never taking a he's going to plead not guilty until it happens ,we all thought watts was pleading not guilty a regular day in court and boom he surprises everyone and pleads guilty . Jmoo

 

[NyxNY]

Re: who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses...?

Plain and simple? Internet trolls IMO. They either think they know it all (but don't) or they are just plain mean. Or a little of both. It's SM's ugly side and why SM isn't allowed on this site, thank goodness! The Mods do a wonderful job of keeping this site pleasant to be on by keeping rumor and SM off the site.

All MOO.

I call them Keyboard Gangstas

 

[Wallendo]

...

Why? I couldn’t begin to tell you. He doesn’t look particularly charismatic to me. He’s young and tall, but beyond that? There must be something, because these same people *do not care* about Richard Allen (alleged Delphi murderer) even though there is a similar lack of hard info that has been released in that similarly brutal case.

...

Not to derail this thread, but it is hard to see anyone actually liking BK. I suspect the difference between the two cases revolves around the victims. The Delphi victims were children. The Moscow victims were all Greek affiliated, and the likely targets were sorority girls. In the early stages of this case, there were those who were convinced that the murders were Greek Life related, committed by "frat boys" (I am not accusing any individuals here). There are many people on social media who dislike college students in general, especially those who enjoy partying. There are many who dislike pretty girls who post selfies.

One of the saddest components of our current political climate, is that many people on both sides of issues have learned (been taught) to hate those who are not like them or do not think like them. It is very easy to hate people you never meet. I suspect that if many of these haters actually met the girls from this house, they would feel quite differently.

It's my opinion only. But, I still don't see any way that the BK discussed here is particularly likable.

 

[wary]

It's weird, but am understanding this process more now.

I know it's daily mail, but just a few days ago DM posted article about BK receiving "love letters." Perhaps BK supporters most likely are threatening witnesses?

Could you be so kind and advise if grand jury is mainly done secretly and much of it will not be disclosed to the public? TIA

Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger receives flood of love letters

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four near the University of Idaho campus, has received more than two dozen 'handwritten' love letters as he awaits trial for the brutal killings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yes, it’s routine for the grand jury to be done secretly.

 

[PrairieWind]

It's weird, but am understanding this process more now.

I know it's daily mail, but just a few days ago DM posted article about BK receiving "love letters." Perhaps BK supporters most likely are threatening witnesses?

Could you be so kind and advise if grand jury is mainly done secretly and much of it will not be disclosed to the public? TIA

Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger receives flood of love letters

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four near the University of Idaho campus, has received more than two dozen 'handwritten' love letters as he awaits trial for the brutal killings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A grand jury is secret. They meet in private, there is no judge, just the prosecutor. The prosecutor can subpoena any witness, the defense (or possible defense) is not allowed to attend or even aware the proceedings are taking place. The presentation of evidence and witnesses is before a court reporter. How those transcripts are available varies. Are the threats related to the GJ? They shouldn't be unless the witnesses themselves are leaking info to others (which may well be possible).

 

[Derph]

That seems weird. Who would be threatening or intimidating these potential witnesses? Its not like BK is part of a local gang. or are they being intimidated about something else? Very strange and sad. When cases are heavily publicized like this one, you always get some weirdos coming out of the woodwork. But these must be threats that more than just that.

Some of his female " fans" who have been communicating with him maybe? Remember Jodi Arias's had her fans that were causing some problems for people during that trial? These trials tend to bring out the crazy in people.

All the secrecy and gag orders are allowing all kinds of conjecture and conspiracy theories to run rampant. With no actual facts coming out to counter these wild theories there is no way to really stop them. It allows these sad folks to latch onto anything and grab their 15 minutes of attention. It's pathetic but that's the world these days unfortunately.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm never taking a he's going to plead not guilty until it happens ,we all thought watts was pleading not guilty a regular day in court and boom he surprises everyone and pleads guilty . Jmoo

True and that would prove to me that the State has an airtight case against this Criminal Justice Doctorate student genius.

No matter how hard any of these murderers try and pull off the perfect murder, there really is no such thing with today's technology.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Some of his female " fans" who have been communicating with him maybe? Remember Jodi Arias's had her fans that were causing some problems for people during that trial? These trials tend to bring out the crazy in people.

All the secrecy and gag orders are allowing all kinds of conjecture and conspiracy theories to run rampant. With no actual facts coming out to counter these wild theories there is no way to really stop them. It allows these sad folks to latch onto anything and grab their 15 minutes of attention. It's pathetic but that's the world these days unfortunately.

There are instructions on the jail's website on how to contact him and I posted months ago that I pictured him in his cell, with his jail-approved tablet (so that he can read jail-censored emails), eating up the attention. Personally, I believe this kind of infamy was part of his motivation. He would have loved the anonymous attention had he not been caught; he is enjoying his penpals now that he is behind bars.

Total speculation on my part of course.

 

[10ofRods]

Not to derail this thread, but it is hard to see anyone actually liking BK. I suspect the difference between the two cases revolves around the victims. The Delphi victims were children. The Moscow victims were all Greek affiliated, and the likely targets were sorority girls. In the early stages of this case, there were those who were convinced that the murders were Greek Life related, committed by "frat boys" (I am not accusing any individuals here). There are many people on social media who dislike college students in general, especially those who enjoy partying. There are many who dislike pretty girls who post selfies.

One of the saddest components of our current political climate, is that many people on both sides of issues have learned (been taught) to hate those who are not like them or do not think like them. It is very easy to hate people you never meet. I suspect that if many of these haters actually met the girls from this house, they would feel quite differently.

It's my opinion only. But, I still don't see any way that the BK discussed here is particularly likable.

I cannot direct you to the actual forums where his fans reside. I will note that they are very quiet today. But I can show this:

Reddit bans channel for fans of Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger

The group featured altars, fanfiction stories and accounts of some Redditors’s love for Mr Kohberger’s alleged “mastermind and psychopathic tendencies”

www.independent.co.uk