4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

[ArianeEmory]

In addition to Reddit (where they were kicked off and now have to operate more covertly and sort of “dogwhistle” to each other in related forums), I understand there are private “fan” Facebook groups. I don’t use FB, but even if I did I’m not the right kind of inquisitive to go find them.

Unfortunately, from what I’ve observed from them on Reddit, I get the sense a lot of them are actually pretty young. I think there’s a generational thing happening here with TikTok and certain types of people that I’m finally getting too old to fully grasp.

But trust me, he has fans. This shouldn’t shock anyone who knows anything about true crime. We all know about Bundy and his superficial charm, but even someone as loathsome as Richard Ramirez still has admirers. To this day.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the latter is more likely than the former. I doubt DAs become successful by worrying about the "exposure" of witnesses or relatives of victims.

I don't pretend to understand why the GJ option was preferred by the DA, but based on my experience with lawyers in general, I'm more apt to believe it was strategy than "compassion".

I don't mean to tar prosecutors as unfeeling; I just don't see how they can do their jobs if they are worried that every witness might be embarrassed or inconvenienced.

It was a strategic move by the State to ensure he goes to trial as GJ are usually more favorable to the Prosecution. No guessing what a Judge might rule.They also don't have to allow the Defense to learn every minuscule detail of their case, nor do their witnesses need to testify before trial. Of course the Defense will know what the State has through the Discovery Process.

I think they might have gone the GJ route in the very beginning, but they didn't have enough of the evidence back from testing, warrants, subpoenas, etc. and they may have even thought he was a flight risk or a danger back in December.

BK's waiving his right to a speedy trial gave them time to get enough of the results of the evidence back and present to a GJ. I think we will be surprised at how very much they do indeed have against BK.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

In addition to Reddit (where they were kicked off and now have to operate more covertly and sort of “dogwhistle” to each other in related forums), I understand there are private “fan” Facebook groups. I don’t use FB, but even if I did I’m not the right kind of inquisitive to go find them.

Unfortunately, from what I’ve observed from them on Reddit, I get the sense a lot of them are actually pretty young. I think there’s a generational thing happening here with TikTok and certain types of people that I’m finally getting too old to fully grasp.

But trust me, he has fans. This shouldn’t shock anyone who knows anything about true crime. We all know about Bundy and his superficial charm, but even someone as loathsome as Richard Ramirez still has admirers. To this day.

Yes, there are private fan groups on FB. Not too hard to find. Not that hard to join, either.

And yes, the same users are still there on reddit and they have threads on a different forum. If they block people who want to challenge them, then those people cannot directly respond, which is what's happening at the moment. There are a few groups of these fans, who met on the banned boards and are still his fanboys and fangirls.

SMH. From my observation and IMO. I think it's something that Trish should consider as a topic for one of her youtube sessions. Richard Ramirez, Scott Peterson, Jeffrey McDonald, the Melendez brothers, Keith Raniere, Cameron Herrin...there are more.

From the below article, we read that the banned group on reddit "only had a couple hundred followers." !!!??? What is the word "only" doing in that sentence? A couple of hundred for a group that was only around a short time is quite the following for any small SM forum. If there are 200 just on the one reddit forum, there are others out in the world as well.

I do not think we know why this happens. I understand liking a fictional villain enough to want to "be" them in cosplay or Hallowe'en, but this is a few steps further down the line to admiring villainy.

Subreddit for ‘Bryan Kohberger’s Girls’ Banned for Code of Conduct Violations

The subreddit ‘Brynation’ contained a mix of trolls and genuine groupies fangirling over the accused murderer.

www.thedailybeast.com

And it had 500 members, not just a couple hundred, when it was shut down:

Reddit bans channel for fans of Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger

The group featured altars, fanfiction stories and accounts of some Redditors’s love for Mr Kohberger’s alleged “mastermind and psychopathic tendencies”

news.yahoo.com

Psychiatry meets subculture, IMO. Very few people study this kind of thing, IMO.

 

[PrairieWind]

Some of his female " fans" who have been communicating with him maybe? Remember Jodi Arias's had her fans that were causing some problems for people during that trial? These trials tend to bring out the crazy in people.

All the secrecy and gag orders are allowing all kinds of conjecture and conspiracy theories to run rampant. With no actual facts coming out to counter these wild theories there is no way to really stop them. It allows these sad folks to latch onto anything and grab their 15 minutes of attention. It's pathetic but that's the world these days unfortunately.

I don't think this can be the standard fan club folks that follow killers. I think this must refer to threats from people more closely related. Is this why GJ was used instead of PH? Not sure, but maybe. But that raises new questions.

It was a strategic move by the State to ensure he goes to trial as GJ are usually more favorable to the Prosecution. No guessing what a Judge might rule.They also don't have to allow the Defense to learn every minuscule detail of their case, nor do their witnesses need to testify before trial. Of course the Defense will know what the State has through the Discovery Process.

I think they might have gone the GJ route in the very beginning, but they didn't have enough of the evidence back from testing, warrants, subpoenas, etc. and they may have even thought he was a flight risk or a danger back in December.

BK's waiving his right to a speedy trial gave them time to get enough of the results of the evidence back and present to a GJ. I think we will be surprised at how very much they do indeed have against BK.

MOO

If they had enough to get PCA to get the information and warrant for arrest, they had enough to get through a GJ. Why didn't they? Something changed.
BK to the best of my knowledge has not waived speedy trial.

 

[I'm Nobody]

The sneak peek for Dateline Friday, May 19, 9/8c, NBC, looks good.
Keith Morrison reporting (I'm a hugh Keith Morrison fan).

DATELINE FRIDAY SNEAK PEEK: The Killings on King Road

Keith Morrison reports the latest on the investigation into the case that caught the world’s attention — the murders of four college students in Moscow, Idaho. Airs Friday, May 19 at 9/8c on NBC.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I don't think this can be the standard fan club folks that follow killers. I think this must refer to threats from people more closely related. Is this why GJ was used instead of PH? Not sure, but maybe. But that raises new questions.

If they had enough to get PCA to get the information and warrant for arrest, they had enough to get through a GJ. Why didn't they? Something changed.
BK to the best of my knowledge has not waived speedy trial.

Could you explain what "something changed" means? What would change? What would be an example of what that "something" that changed is?
Could it be that after all the rigamaroll with the defense seemingly hounding, only MY wording, the other surviving roommate, BF, for an interview?
I'd have to be locked up and held in contempt if anyone tried to get me near Moscow or anyone having to do with BK or his defense who wanted to question or talk to me. That's just me and my opinion, though.
It seems to me, the newest member on the defense team has a tendency to attempt to pick apart/diminish a victim/witness's credibility by suggesting their memory is mistaken, clouded etc.
I'm just asking. I know my emotional thoughts/feelings don't fall in line with what the legal ramifications or reasoning of any of the proceedings are. I respect your knowledge.
You're the expert, I just stayed at the Holiday Inn Express.
All my opinions and everything like that.

 

[Cindizzi]

The sneak peek for Dateline Friday, May 19, 9/8c, NBC, looks good.
Keith Morrison reporting (I'm a hugh Keith Morrison fan).

DATELINE FRIDAY SNEAK PEEK: The Killings on King Road

Keith Morrison reports the latest on the investigation into the case that caught the world’s attention — the murders of four college students in Moscow, Idaho. Airs Friday, May 19 at 9/8c on NBC.

www.nbcnews.com

ETA Ditto on Keith


Just saw this tweet by a Dateline Producer:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659286117487902721

 

[PrairieWind]

Could you explain what "something changed" means? What would change? What would be an example of what that "something" that changed is?
Couldn't it be that after all the rigamaroll with the defense seemingly hounding, only my wording, the other surviving roommate, BF?
I'd have to be locked up and held in contempt if anyone tried to get me near Moscow or anyone having to do with BK or his defense who wanted to question or talk to me. That's just me and my opinion, though.
It seems to me the newest member on the defense team has a tendency to attempt to pick apart/diminish a victim/witness's credibility by suggesting their memory is mistaken, clouded etc.
I'm just asking. I know my emotional thoughts/feelings don't fall in line with what the legal ramifications or reasoning of any of the proceedings are. You're the expert, I just stayed at the Holiday Inn Express.
All my opinions and everything like that.

The newest defense attorney was just recently added. And much is made of just one case she has handled.
As for the witness, it appears she has information relevant to the crime. Defense counsel would have made numerous attempts to speak with her first, which I think we can assume were rejected. If she has important information, how else is the Defense expected to act? What are they supposed to do? Just forget it? I do far far more civil litigation than criminal. And I can tell you I have had more than one witness brought to a hearing or deposition by a deputy or threat of a deputy because they just didn't want to cooperate. If/when push comes to shove and this case proceeds, the trial judge isn't even going to think twice about ordering the witness to appear.

 

[10ofRods]

Bryan Kohberger waived his right to a speedy trial back in January according to these news sources:

Kohberger waives right to speedy trial; preliminary hearing set for June

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing Thursday morning.

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

A subdued Bryan Kohberger waived his right to speedy court appearance at second hearing in Idaho murders case

Kohberger's former lawyer has said he doesn't think the accused murderer can get a fair trial in Moscow, Idaho.

www.insider.com

University of Idaho murder suspect waives right to speedy trial at court appearance - UPI.com

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger, accused of committing the deadly stabbings of four University of Idaho students, appeared in court for the second time Thursday.

www.upi.com

MSNBC has an audio report here:

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658152140009877514

 

[Warwick7]

I don't think this can be the standard fan club folks that follow killers. I think this must refer to threats from people more closely related. Is this why GJ was used instead of PH? Not sure, but maybe. But that raises new questions.

If they had enough to get PCA to get the information and warrant for arrest, they had enough to get through a GJ. Why didn't they? Something changed.
BK to the best of my knowledge has not waived speedy trial.

I was under the impression he had waved speedy trial. Maybe I read it wrong. But I think he did.

Kohberger waives right to speedy trial; preliminary hearing set for June

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing Thursday morning.

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

 

[wary]

I was under the impression he had waved speedy trial. Maybe I read it wrong. But I think he did.

Kohberger waives right to speedy trial; preliminary hearing set for June

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing Thursday morning.

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

He definitely waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing. The question that we haven’t heard specifically addressed, as far as I know, is: does the clock for a speedy trial reset at his arraignment?

 

[PrairieWind]

Bryan Kohberger waived his right to a speedy trial back in January according to these news sources:

Kohberger waives right to speedy trial; preliminary hearing set for June

Bryan Kohberger, the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students, waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing Thursday morning.

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

A subdued Bryan Kohberger waived his right to speedy court appearance at second hearing in Idaho murders case

Kohberger's former lawyer has said he doesn't think the accused murderer can get a fair trial in Moscow, Idaho.

www.insider.com

University of Idaho murder suspect waives right to speedy trial at court appearance - UPI.com

Murder suspect Bryan Kohberger, accused of committing the deadly stabbings of four University of Idaho students, appeared in court for the second time Thursday.

www.upi.com

MSNBC has an audio report here:

I believe he waived his right to preliminary hearing within 14 days. Someone can check the docket. A waiver of speedy trial has to be in writing.

 

[Cindizzi]

I believe he waived his right to preliminary hearing within 14 days. Someone can check the docket. A waiver of speedy trial has to be in writing.

I am not a lawyer so this is just my 2 cents.

A speedy trial is defined as 6 months . So waiving a timely prelim and setting it for June ( 6 months out ) appears to me as him not asserting his right to a speedy trial.

http://jeromecountyid.us/DocumentCenter/View/852/Memo-031320-JS-to-ST-re-Speedy-Trial-Factors

 

[wary]

I am not a lawyer so this is just my 2 cents.

A speedy trial is defined as 6 months . So waiving a timely prelim and setting it for June ( 6 months out ) appears to me as him not asserting his right to a speedy trial.

http://jeromecountyid.us/DocumentCenter/View/852/Memo-031320-JS-to-ST-re-Speedy-Trial-Factors

View attachment 423194

@PrairieWind My question is: when would you expect the clock to start ticking for the six months? Does it start at the arrest/first being brought to court? Or does it start at the arraignment?

 

[Cindizzi]

@PrairieWind My question is: when would you expect the clock to start ticking for the six months? Does it start at the arrest/first being brought to court? Or does it start at the arraignment?

I think it’s from the date charges are filed. JMO

Section 19-3501 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[10ofRods]

He definitely waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing. The question that we haven’t heard specifically addressed, as far as I know, is: does the clock for a speedy trial reset at his arraignment?

I don't think so. Once he waived it, back in January, it was waived. Now he abides by that decision.

I have looked closely at Idaho codes and see no provision for winding the clock back, but an Idaho resident or lawyer should weigh in.

I've never heard of that being procedure anywhere in the US. He didn't waive his "right to a speedy PH" he waived his right to a speedy trial. Now, the prosecution is using what it has, at its disposal, to speed things up (various witnesses can become no longer available - or forget).

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think it’s from the date charges are filed. JMO

Section 19-3501 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

View attachment 423201

No one can waive their right to a speedy trial BEFORE they are even indicted and BEFORE they even get to make a plea in their arraignment. A trial can't even be scheduled until then.

Utter nonsense. He hasn't even had his arraignment yet.

BK simply waived his right to having his probable cause hearing in 14 days. Media is wrong.

No one knows if he will waive his speedy trial rights or not. If I was innocent I would not waive mine and sit for years in jail.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

From the: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/010523 Notification of Rights.pdf

 

[al66pine]

Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment in ID???

Could BK's def. team gain traction on any of the four following grounds?

"Idaho Criminal Rule 6.6." (in its entirety)
"Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment"
"A motion to dismiss the indictment may be granted by the district court on any of the following grounds:
• a valid challenge to the array of grand jurors;
• a valid challenge to an individual juror who served on the grand jury that found the indictment, except that finding of the valid challenge to one or more members of the grand jury is not grounds for dismissal of the indictment if there were 12 or more qualified jurors concurring in the finding of the indictment;
• that the charge in the indictment was previously submitted to a magistrate at preliminary hearing and dismissed for lack of probable cause; or
• that the indictment was not properly found, endorsed and presented as required by these rules or by the statutes of the state of Idaho."

Effective 2017. I.C.R. 6.6. Grounds for Motion to Dismiss Indictment | Supreme Court

=======================================
RE #1 & #2.
IIRC, @10ofRods post, re Section 2-212 of Idaho Code (https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/statutesrules/idstat/Title2/T2CH2.pdf)
discusses irregularities in selection of jurors (basically failure to comply w statute) for which the judge may stay proceedings, and quash the indictment, or grant other relief.
@10ofRods, pls correct any ^misstatement or misunderstanding^ re your post. TiA.

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #79

Not sure, honestly. I haven't followed the Daybell-Vallow case very closely, which is the only other murder case in Idaho that could provide an example of judge selection. Perhaps Judge John Judge is just presiding over the arraignment, or presided over the GJ and so is signing off on the court...

www.websleuths.com

=================================================
Which, if any of the reasons in 4 ^bullets?

IIUC, we/gen.pub/websleuthers have no info re possible irregularities, so no reason, ATM, to think def. team has basis for #1 or #2 challenge to indictment.

#3 could be grounds for dismissing indictment, only if the charge(s) had been submitted at to magistrate at PH & dismissed for lack of PC. So nope, not #3.

So, what about bullet #4?