4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[Cool Cats]

And judging by the early descriptions of the crime scene being 'the worst' that investigators had ever seen...

There were likely other footprints.

Especially because there is an invisible print down the hall it only makes sense that there would be footprints leading up to it.
It seems like there would be visible prints.

If what you are trying to say is that if there is no more evidence than the fact of BK's trip to PA, the prosecution will have a tough burden to persuade a jury that the trip and the midnight dump in his neighbor's trash is an effort to remove the car from the area of the crime, and to remove evidence from it where no one will suspect, I would tend to agree.

But we know that the trip did not occur in isolation from other evidence - in particular LE's call for information about a white Elantra and all the other evidence in the affidavit.

Virtually all cases are built on circumstances that form a mosaic picture. Taken in isolation they may not seem significant, but a jury will deliberate with full knowledge of all the pieces the prosecution has. And they won't need to see all the pieces to get the picture - beyond a reasonable doubt.

Both studies and my own experience show to my satisfaction that jurors in most cases do a good job of holding one another to account in following the instructions and sticking to the evidence. The one instruction they struggle with is an instruction to ignore evidence that is presented then stricken by order of the judge.

All MOO.

Yup.

The Attorney General in a case I followed of 8 murders said it was like a giant jigsaw puzzle. They meticulously gathered the circumstantial evidence piece by piece until the giant puzzle was put together and it created a clear picture of the 4 defendant's guilt.

To get eyewitness testimony that matches the suspect enough that he can't be ruled out,
and DNA that rules out 99.9% of the population except for the suspect, is pretty incredible to get at a murder scene.

Then you have the car and cell records.

The defense can't do anything to change the DNA or change the witness statement, but they can offer plausible explanations as to the car and cell phone evidence.

If BK is innocent this shouldn't be hard to do. They could simply explain how this couldn't be BK's car on video, explain why the cell records do not prove BK stalked the victims because there is proof he was doing other things, and the defense can give the logical reason BK turned off his phone coincidentally during the time of the murders.

Of course the defense doesn't have to offer any explanations at all, they can just sit back and let the prosecution accuse BK of things he didn't do and let the jury decide if the prosecution proves it.

 

[Boxer]

Especially because there is an invisible print down the hall it only makes sense that there would be footprints leading up to it.
It seems like there would be visible prints.

Yup.

The Attorney General in a case I followed of 8 murders said it was like a giant jigsaw puzzle. They meticulously gathered the circumstantial evidence piece by piece until the giant puzzle was put together and it created a clear picture of the 4 defendant's guilt.

To get eyewitness testimony that matches the suspect enough that he can't be ruled out,
and DNA that rules out 99.9% of the population except for the suspect, is pretty incredible to get at a murder scene.

Then you have the car and cell records.

The defense can't do anything to change the DNA or change the witness statement, but they can offer plausible explanations as to the car and cell phone evidence.

If BK is innocent this shouldn't be hard to do. They could simply explain how this couldn't be BK's car on video, explain why the cell records do not prove BK stalked the victims because there is proof he was doing other things, and the defense can give the logical reason BK turned off his phone coincidentally during the time of the murders.

Of course the defense doesn't have to offer any explanations at all, they can just sit back and let the prosecution accuse BK of things he didn't do and let the jury decide if the prosecution proves it.

MOO they can't so taking the shortcut: supressing evidence, impeaching the witness and the victims will be the route they take.

 

[Sundog]

MOO they can't so taking the shortcut: supressing evidence, impeaching the witness and the victims will be the route they take.

I don't think that Anne Taylor will in any way impeach the witness or the victims in any direct cross examination (the two surviving roommates), I think she is mindful that such a move would be seen as incredibly negative by the jury. But she might put someone on the stand who will provide testimony that in fact throws doubt about the witness. So it will be somone else, or others, who go in this direction, not Anne Taylor herself. I think she will distance herself from any impeachment of a witness or victim and work on keeping positive rapport with the jury.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I find it really interesting, too, especially after reviewing the details of all Block/Square does. imo jmo the fact that it was for the 4 victims and 3 additional parties makes it even more interesting because LE had to have probable cause so jmo imo interesting. This is one of the issues I find most compelling.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Block.pdf

Block, Inc. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Square | Solutions For Your Small, Medium & Large Business

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Square, Inc.: What It Is, How It Works, Products and Services

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www.investopedia.com

Knowing that Square is now Block and includes multiple apps including CashApp, it seems likely to me that "everyone" had CashApp accounts which are technically with Square? IMO only

 

[Boxer]

I don't think that Anne Taylor will in any way impeach the witness or the victims in any direct cross examination (the two surviving roommates), I think she is mindful that such a move would be seen as incredibly negative by the jury. But she might put someone on the stand who will provide testimony that in fact throws doubt about the witness. So it will be somone else, or others, who go in this direction, not Anne Taylor herself. I think she will distance herself from any impeachment of a witness or victim and work on keeping positive rapport with the jury.

MOO skillfully introducing negative information need not be aggressive or alienating.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Question for anyone: Do we know exactly what SG meant by BK's phone trying to connect to the King Road's network? Was it open, without a password?

I'm often alerted to open wifi networks, but I've never connected to one unless I chose to do so and/or signed in previously and turned on auto-connect.

Would he even have that information without knowing BK's phone number? Even if he somehow had the phone number, are all of the network attempts available? If the Intenet company keeps track, would that be available without a warrant?

Maybe the device attempting to connect leaves a digital footprint even if the network declines the connection?

I quite often try to log into my neighbour's wifi accounts that show as visible on my devices just to see if they would be open in theory. None of them ever are though. Also, not for nefarious reasons on my behalf as I have my own wifi paid. The idea that one of my neighbours could view my attempted connection and possibly frame it as stalking has put me off this behaviour forever I should also add!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

and would he REALLY have been THAT ridiculous?? At 9am, when many are already awake, up and about, neighbours, to see his vehicle, neighbours to see an open door.. etc etc?

I mean, someone opened that door. And we know his car was in the area.

Or do you think he left through the front door after the murders and left it open?

MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

IMO, If those prints exist, there isn't a reason to omit them from the PCA.

LE didn't see the footprint by DM's door on the first pass. They clearly tested the area, didn't find anything, then tested again, with a different substance and found the latent print. They were looking for evidence on the floor. The officer thought the one latent print was important. Why would that one be important but not others, if there were any?

If there was a substantial amount of blood on the floors (1) the killer would have tracked more between the 3rd floor and DM's door or from X's room to the front of her door. Either way, a directional pattern would have been established.

imo jmo exactly. Physical evidence other than touch DNA, particularly a full shoe print that would allow an FBI expert to ID the shoe and potential size of the person wearing them, placing someone with BK's shoe size at the scene of the crime would have been more convincing than a partial print/second pass print, imo jmo. And as you say, there would be no good reason to exclude it, and a lot of reasons to include it, if they had it imo jmo. And if it were used to support DM's story, a bloody path would seem more convincing, but ICBW.

https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/gait-footprints-and-footwear-how-forensic-podiatry-can-identify-criminals/

There is no reason a juror should believe this was BK fleeing vs something that is very normal among college and graduate students. That isn't jurors not following instructions. MOO.

There would have to be evidence that he was fleeing imo jmo and it certainly doesn't fit the definition of this: Section 49-1404 – Idaho State Legislature

Even driving v flying was a well-documented debate back in January, and the route he took, even though longer,

"...the initial hours of the duo's journey would have been treacherous had they taken the most direct route — with whiteout conditions that covered parts of the Northern Plains and Upper Midwest in feet of snow."
"The first leg out of Idaho through the higher elevations of the Rockies would likely have been tough, with estimates topping a foot of new powder per day," Wulfeck said. "Once east of the Rockies, southern routes appeared to be more optimal due to expected blizzard conditions in the Northern Plains."
"The weather up north was so severe that South Dakota authorities even shut down several major highways, including Interstate 90, on Dec. 13, he added."

quotes from here and map.

Inside Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's unusually long route home to Pennsylvania

A look inside the long detour in Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's indirect route home to his parents' house in Pennsylvania's Poconos Mountains.

www.foxnews.com

Imo jmo I have driven both routes (though not all the way to PA, just halfway), and no way, no how I'm taking the northern route based on my own experiences and the weather at the time.

 

[U.N. Known]

MOO skillfully introducing negative information need not be aggressive or alienating.

As a juror, I'd find it less compelling if the attorney gave a witness softball questions. I want the prosecution and the defense to answer the questions I have.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The print was included to corroborate the witness account of seeing a man, dressed in black, walk toward the kitchen.

But the poster brings up a good point. If the purpose of the PCA is only to prove probable cause for arrest and there is another shoe print, why not include that as well? At the very least, for the search warrant since they were searching for Vans style/diamond sole shoes? Two reasons I can think of -- either there were no other footprints they found to reliably decipher size or the size didn't match what they believed BK to be, so they excluded it from the PCA. My money's on the former, but I can't explain why that would be the case.

MOO.

 

[schooling]

But the poster brings up a good point. If the purpose of the PCA is only to prove probable cause for arrest and there is another shoe print, why not include that as well? At the very least, for the search warrant since they were searching for Vans style/diamond sole shoes? Two reasons I can think of -- either there were no other footprints they found to reliably decipher size or the size didn't match what they believed BK to be, so they excluded it from the PCA. My money's on the former, but I can't explain why that would be the case.

MOO.

As always my opinion only.....my favorite kind of opinion at that....the unsolicited kind.

You could also make the argument why mention that specific shoe print at all? Since they don't make the attempt in the PCA to connect it directly to BK.

My money's on they likely have more footprints AND video/photographs of BK wearing the exact same Vans with the same bottom pattern around campus, shopping for groceries or somewhere/anywhere....in the days/weeks/months prreceding the murder.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't think that Anne Taylor will in any way impeach the witness or the victims in any direct cross examination (the two surviving roommates), I think she is mindful that such a move would be seen as incredibly negative by the jury. But she might put someone on the stand who will provide testimony that in fact throws doubt about the witness. So it will be somone else, or others, who go in this direction, not Anne Taylor herself. I think she will distance herself from any impeachment of a witness or victim and work on keeping positive rapport with the jury.

whoops, editing because I missed this, and that would be a positive way for AT to do this, in general circumstances. I could foresee circumstances where that might not work, but if AT can keep her interaction positive, I agree she will. jmo imo however also jmo imo if there were something of material importance to the case that only one of the roommates could answer for - and I am not suggesting that there is, I'm just using this as an example - then she would have to lay the foundation gently and then go for it. imo jmo.

Witness impeachment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Knowing that Square is now Block and includes multiple apps including CashApp, it seems likely to me that "everyone" had CashApp accounts which are technically with Square? IMO only

Potentially, but then we find ourselves in the 'assumption' lane, and if we're looking at the totality of the evidence re so many accounts, we have to consider more than just the one explanation imo jmo ime.

As a juror, I'd find it less compelling if the attorney gave a witness softball questions. I want the prosecution and the defense to answer the questions I have.

I'd want respectful, but direct because that's how I view the truth - I want it from whoever tells it, no matter who it's for or against. jmo imo.

At the very least, for the search warrant since they were searching for Vans style/diamond sole shoes?

Especially in Washington for the search of his apartment and office. And pretty sure that if they knew exactly what the shoe was and intentionally withheld it to do a broader search anyway, AT would have something to say about that jmo imo. There are ways to search outside the scope of the warrant (plain view, for example, if they were looking in a place already specified and/or in general view) but intentionally misleading including lies of omission to bend the rules is frowned upon iirc jmo imo.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Especially in Washington for the search of his apartment and office. And pretty sure that if they knew exactly what the shoe was and intentionally withheld it to do a broader search anyway, AT would have something to say about that jmo imo. There are ways to search outside the scope of the warrant (plain view, for example, if they were looking in a place already specified and/or in general view) but intentionally misleading including lies of omission to bend the rules is frowned upon iirc jmo imo.

Right. And now that they know he's a size 13, if they found size 13 shoe prints, that would be important, IMO.

MOO.

 

[DeDee]

Why was BK willing to risk everything he'd worked towards? Well, maybe a career in criminal justice was only what he seemed to be working towards. Maybe murdering people had been his goal in life for a long time, and his criminal justice studies were just a means to that end.

I agree, Kemug. Perhaps he spent a decade or longer propelled by evil desires. A caring, loving person does not do what he's accused of doing.

The killers among us must pay for their selfish crimes. If BK did this, and it appears that he did, then may his punishment be swift and severe.

 

[Bogbacal2]

What about the police and etc. who had walked through presumably various areas of the crimescenes.. were they all wearing booties? Does blood soak through those booties? Were all footwear from those people compared against the latent shoeprint which couldn't be seen until they tested it for blood and then put that other stuff on it? If someone cleaned up bloody shoeprints, wouldn't the diamond pattern of the soles also be wiped away, or at least blurred together?

Just a little something I came across regarding the murder scene, which IMO, is common sense in that first responders were not aware of the situation at hand. I’m a retired paramedic and had law enforcement received the call first, we, as medics would have had to wait until LE cleared us, made sure scene was safe for us to go in…,

Did first responders contaminate Idaho murder scene?

First responders involved in the Idaho murder case were not wearing protective footwear, a source revealed to NewsNation.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe the device attempting to connect leaves a digital footprint even if the network declines the connection?

I quite often try to log into my neighbour's wifi accounts that show as visible on my devices just to see if they would be open in theory. None of them ever are though. Also, not for nefarious reasons on my behalf as I have my own wifi paid. The idea that one of my neighbours could view my attempted connection and possibly frame it as stalking has put me off this behaviour forever I should also add!

Yes, it does.

Your neighbor's wireless router has your device's identification number and will store it for whatever period of time it stores such things (more expensive wireless routers have more storage; over the years most routers have gained more and more storage - but it will push your information out to free up space for new info).

So, if someone breaks into your neighbor's house the day after you've decided to try to join, and LE sends its digital forensic team to the neighbor's house (which they probably won't unless there's actual harm to one of your neighbors), they will figure out that it's you. And fairly quickly, too.

It definitely could be used as evidence of stalking. Some people interact with their routers rather regularly (to change the name; to see who in the neighborhood has tried to join; if I see a car parked in front of my house and someone is on their phone, I sometimes check to see if they tried our router - only once in 15 years has that happened.) If I saw the same MAC address show up frequently, I might even investigate the issue myself - even if the phone had never connected to our router, I'd feel as if someone was trying to hack in.

I no longer have my phone set up to auto-join networks; just recognized networks that I have said I want to join. Like at work.

Otherwise, as I drive around, all these people's routers respond to my phone with the router names (some of them quite humorous or political) but now my unique MAC address (which would lead eventually to me, as I purchased the device myself, with my real name and address) is on those people's routers - temporarily.

Since of course I've never tried to join (I've never clicked "join this network") it would still be innocent, but I simply don't want to be involved in any unnecessary hassles in the highly urban area where I live. People can be quite sensitive around these issues. Fortunately, if all one does is ping the router (not try to join), it's not illegal.

Where I live, trying to join someone's private network is against the law. They will show up in the router's log as "authentication error attempts" log if you don't know or don't use the password - but they'll still know someone tried and wonder why. They won't know it's YOU personally - unless they can get a PI or LE to help them figure out who belongs to the device you used to do this. If a person (like the IT guy three doors down from me) has the tools to track MAC addresses (what he has to say about it is still gobbledy gook to me - but if I wanted to track a MAC address, he'd be my go-to person).

How to Locate a Device Using a MAC Address

If you're in a situation where you can't find a device's IP address, you can resort to the MAC address. Here's a breakdown of the steps to accomplish it.

blog.invgate.com

IMO.

 

[schooling]

Are we left to assume that warrants on BKs financial records are amongst the ones that are completely sealed?

 

[DeDee]

How much time would it take to take off the used gloves, put them in a plastic bag, slip on new gloves, take booties off of his shoes, throw the in the bag, and then walk out of the blood room to his escape route?

Hardly take any time at all to slip items into a bag or whatnot. I've considered BK being double gloved.

I'm curious about so much but what about that trip to Albertson's? The PCA didn't tell us what he purchased. Do you guys think he bought celery and hummus? I've wondered if he purchased medical supplies for a cut that wouldn't stop bleeding.

 

[10ofRods]

The print was included to corroborate the witness account of seeing a man, dressed in black, walk toward the kitchen.

And without any other info, so that randos don't start calling the police hotline with information that only the killer could know. That's why there's not more. We don't need any more youtube animations of "the killer walking through the house," IMO.

End of story. BK is not bound over for trial yet. They need to present the information at the proper time and for good legal reasons. IMO.

Partial footprints sometimes contain better forensic evidence about gait than full ones, as well. That may come up later.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

"What if" he knew he had lent a car that, according to reports, matched one seen in the vicinity of a brutal murder by knife, and he knew his knife was also in that car, and for several weeks he didn't approach police to mention this? Geez, I guess I'd think awarding of his criminology Masters degree wasn't justified. Among other things.

Then I guess his azz would be grass and someone the lawn mower.