4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[maconrich]

And as a refresher (since most of us probably checked out the county jail before News Nation decided to sensationalize and turn into a week of OMG Can YOU Believe this type of story) IMHO

Detention

Latah County is located in the northern Idaho panhandle; to the immediate west lies Whitman County, Washington. These counties are referred to as The Palouse, which produces a large share of the wheat, lentils, peas, oats and barley in the United States. The Palouse is home to two major...

latahcountyid.gov

 

[I'm Nobody]

<snipped for focus>

Did anyone else come forward to confirm that Kaylee told them that she had a stalker? Other than the vape store guy? IIRC, Kaylee's sister said that she wasn't aware that Kaylee had a stalker, that Kaylee never mentioned that.

@Sundog I could only find Vape Manager direct interview. MPD says from some interviews plural so I assume others; "loved ones support" because Kaylee friends would fall into that category. jmo

"Moscow Police Captain Roger Lanier told reporters on November 23 that "we obtained information through some of our interviews that Kaylee had made some comments about a stalker."

Kaylee Goncalves warned about stalker three weeks before her murder

A shopkeeper who knew Kaylee Goncalves, one of four Idaho University students murdered on November 23, claimed she had "tons of issues" with a stalker.

www.newsweek.com

 

[10ofRods]

<snipped for focus>

Did anyone else come forward to confirm that Kaylee told them that she had a stalker? Other than the vape store guy? IIRC, Kaylee's sister said that she wasn't aware that Kaylee had a stalker, that Kaylee never mentioned that.

From memory, her dad said that they were on vacation with her and she mentioned a "stalker" at the resort (a man a few years older than KG, IIRC, who approached her in the presence of/near her parents - and did it twice).

SG gave this as an example of how she used the word "stalking." It's a pretty open-ended term but these days, many young women use it to mean "seeing the same guy pop up in front of me at parties or outside class, when I don't like him." It doesn't necessarily mean that the stalker is breaking the law as defined in stalker statutes.

AFAIK, KG never filed any kind of formal complaint about a stalker. There could have been other instances she felt uncomfortable with (aside from the one SG mentioned).

IMO only

 

[Sleuth2010]

The families are speaking out and want their 1st Amendment Rights... Freedom of Speech. They are thankful to those who drove this investigation. That means US folks: Terrific work.

"the attorney for the family of victim Kaylee Goncalves, also filed a motion arguing that he should be allowed to express the Goncalves family's opinions and should not be included in the gag order.

the Goncalves family thanked the media for its coverage of the case, saying they "believe it was the coverage by the media of the victims families, numerous witnesses and undeniable evidence that led to an arrest in this case." Keep working for justice!!! Nice work!!!

 

[maconrich]

Thank you to all who have been providing great links re Kaylee (as well as dd and financial info). I've been busy reading and trying to process. From what I remember, and am seeing again, it seems like most of the info about what she was doing and going to do came from her family. I don't remember seeing that she was given her degree posthumously, but perhaps her parents opted to not have it mentioned? Edited to add IMHO

 

[Sundog]

Thank you to all who have been providing great links re Kaylee (as well as dd and financial info). I've been busy reading and trying to process. From what I remember, and am seeing again, it seems like most of the info about what she was doing and going to do came from her family. I don't remember seeing that she was given her degree posthumously, but perhaps her parents opted to not have it mentioned? Edited to add IMHO

We don't know if Kaylee received her degree at the December Commencement Ceremony at U of Idaho, we just know that her name wasn't in the program among those graduating. There was some pushback about this in the media at the time. Some people felt that the University omitted her name from the list of graduates so as not to detract from this significant occasion for the students and families who would be present. Not that they did that, but that's what some people believed. Maybe her family, for some reason, didn't want her name to appear in the program, although I think that is unlikely, JMO.

If she had met all the degree requirements and was set to graduate in December, then I think her family would have already received her diploma on behalf of Kaylee. Usually students receive their actual diplomas a month or so after they graduate, not at the Commencement Ceremony itself, even though they are handed something as they cross the stage and shake hands with their dean or university president, etc. (however that particular university organizes their ceremony). The actual diplomas are provided at a later date.

If Kaylee still had work to turn in and had not officially completed the requirements for her degree, then a posthumous degree would be awarded, usually this requires formal approval by the Board with a vote taken at a scheduled meeting of the Board. So if Kaylee didn't receive her degree following the December Commencement ceremony by way of her family receiving it on her behalf, then I would think she would be awarded the degree posthumously at the May 2023 ceremony, if that is what the family want and the Board approves it (which of course they will, she had completed most of her degree requirements, if not all).

At the university where I work, posthumous degrees may be awarded if the deceased student has completed a certain percentage of their degree requirements and they were in good standing at the time of death - and if the Board approves it formally when they meet, and the degree is awarded at the next commencement ceremony following Board approval. We usually have at least one student (an undergraduate or graduate student) per semester receiving a posthumous degree -usually because of terminal illness, accident, or suicide. It's always a very sad occasion, but very meaningful, of course, for the family.

 

[maconrich]

We don't know if Kaylee received her degree at the December Commencement Ceremony at U of Idaho, we just know that her name wasn't in the program among those graduating. There was some pushback about this in the media at the time. Some people felt that the University omitted her name from the list of graduates so as not to detract from this significant occasion for the students and families who would be present. Not that they did that, but that's what some people believed. Maybe her family, for some reason, didn't want her name to appear in the program, although I think that is unlikely, JMO.

If she had met all the degree requirements and was set to graduate in December, then I think her family would have already received her diploma on behalf of Kaylee. Usually students receive their actual diplomas a month or so after they graduate, not at the Commencement Ceremony itself, even though they are handed something as they cross the stage and shake hands with their dean or university president, etc. (however that particular university organizes their ceremony). The actual diplomas are provided at a later date.

If Kaylee still had work to turn in and had not officially completed the requirements for her degree, then a posthumous degree would be awarded, usually this requires formal approval by the Board with a vote taken at a scheduled meeting of the Board. So if Kaylee didn't receive her degree following the December Commencement ceremony by way of her family receiving it on her behalf, then I would think she would be awarded the degree posthumously at the May 2023 ceremony, if that is what the family want and the Board approves it (which of course they will, she had completed most of her degree requirements, if not all).

At the university where I work, posthumous degrees may be awarded if the deceased student has completed a certain percentage of their degree requirements and they were in good standing at the time of death - and if the Board approves it formally when they meet, and the degree is awarded at the next commencement ceremony following Board approval. We usually have at least one student (an undergraduate or graduate student) per semester receiving a posthumous degree -usually because of terminal illness, accident, or suicide. It's always a very sad occasion, but very meaningful, of course, for the family.

Thank you. Interesting and sad.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you to all who have been providing great links re Kaylee (as well as dd and financial info). I've been busy reading and trying to process. From what I remember, and am seeing again, it seems like most of the info about what she was doing and going to do came from her family. I don't remember seeing that she was given her degree posthumously, but perhaps her parents opted to not have it mentioned? Edited to add IMHO

The University of Idaho published its mid-year degrees in late December. KG was not on the list. My thinking is that she didn't finish her coursework (there was a capstone course for her major that had to be taken senior year; her mother seemed to think she could do it from home but of course, she was not able to).

She did not get a posthumous degree (which if she had completed, would have been conferred Dec 2022). That bothers me a little, but I guess the rules are rules - maybe their Board can see its way clear to conferring her degree one day.

IMO

 

[Montecore1]

"the attorney for the family of victim Kaylee Goncalves, also filed a motion arguing that he should be allowed to express the Goncalves family's opinions and should not be included in the gag order.

IMO TWISI The other six victims families have been very quite since even before the Gag Order and actually throughout this entire tragedy, some even nonexistent.
I have always wondered what they think about SG's..."vocalness" and now what the Goncalves attorney is publicly saying. He obviously isn't speaking for anyone other than the G family. MOO
<modsnip>

 

[schooling]

Thanks for providing the links!

Not exactly meaningful but how weird (IMO) is it that "Xtreme Networks" is based in Austin, TX yet it isn't the network K was going to be working for

Can't help but wonder what might have been on the laptop. MOO & speculation.

There could have been absolutely nothing on the laptop.

I have my work laptop sitting 20 feet away from me. If tomorrow, I face my demise under suspicious circumstances.... Law Enforcement would likely want to know what's inside of it.

I can tell you with 100% certainty...they'll find nothing. But how would they know that?

 

[iamshadow21]

There could have been absolutely nothing on the laptop.

I have my work laptop sitting 20 feet away from me. If tomorrow, I face my demise under suspicious circumstances.... Law Enforcement would likely want to know what's inside of it.

I can tell you with 100% certainty...they'll find nothing. But how would they know that?

Yep, taking everything electronic like that that they can under warrant is just good policing, whether the items belong to a victim or a suspect.

They took BK's computer tower and Firestick from his apartment. For all we (or they) know, he did nothing with them but play Minecraft and watch reruns of The Great British Bake Off, but they're not just going to assume that and not take them.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Did they really get warrants for all the local UPS delivery trucks?

I think the UPS trucks all have a huge video camera on the front dash, and maybe even on the backside too.

So I could imagine that if one could have ALL the video from all those moving vehicles, one could browse through the footage to see if a certain white Elantra was in certain areas on certain days. Maybe?

I do think they want to nail down what he was doing on those prior visits to the area of the crime scene.

Defense will say he was going to the library to study or going to pick up food. The state would like to place him watching the victims going to and from the house, etc. Or maybe stalking them at the restaurant etc?

 

[schooling]

Yep, taking everything electronic like that that they can under warrant is just good policing, whether the items belong to a victim or a suspect.

They took BK's computer tower and Firestick from his apartment. For all we (or they) know, he did nothing with them but play Minecraft and watch reruns of The Great British Bake Off, but they're not just going to assume that and not take them.

MOO

Exactly! All evidence that LE's collected just looks like they are utilizing the "Patterns-of-Life" method but in reverse. Aggregating social media and who they are interacting with following/followers, location data on their phones, financial transactions, hobbies, all online activity, communication phone/text/email/etc, and all images and videos available to them. Creating personas, timelines, and establishing what a typical day/week/month looks like in their lives.

I think there is a lot of interesting information in this latest document release by the courts....but we are looking too much into most of it.

The only things that really stood out to me was the cell phone store having their own mini cell tower, Kaylee having the sole Reddit warrant that they asked to keep under seal, and the fact that K-Bar was likely able to connect the sheath to that specific supplier/wholesaler. I'd bet by now that they likely have a financial transaction and/or receipt for that knife (from ebay, amazon, or some random store via his financial transaction data).

All MOO, of course.

 

[schooling]

Did they really get warrants for all the local UPS delivery trucks?

I think the UPS trucks all have a huge video camera on the front dash, and maybe even on the backside too.

So I could imagine that if one could have ALL the video from all those moving vehicles, one could browse through the footage to see if a certain white Elantra was in certain areas on certain days. Maybe?

I do think they want to nail down what he was doing on those prior visits to the area of the crime scene.

Defense will say he was going to the library to study or going to pick up food. The state would like to place him watching the victims going to and from the house, etc. Or maybe stalking them at the restaurant etc?

IMO they have a separate video that's peaking their interest. And I'd guess in that video there's a UPS truck that has a better vantage point and in position to capture something in it's field of view (Elantra, BK, one of the victims, etc).

But your guess is just as likely. And makes even more sense. Especially since the UPS truck likely visited and traversed the streets of that neighborhood daily (especially with the apartment right there)

 

[whiterhino]

There could have been absolutely nothing on the laptop.

I have my work laptop sitting 20 feet away from me. If tomorrow, I face my demise under suspicious circumstances.... Law Enforcement would likely want to know what's inside of it.

I can tell you with 100% certainty...they'll find nothing. But how would they know that?

Good point. I suppose LE seize anything that is connected to the victims. Maybe I'm making something from nothing.

FWIW JMO it's not a coincidence that K was going to be working in tech/networking, had an interest in true crime, and felt she was being stalked. Then there's BK who was lurking around, took classes on cybercrime and criminal justice. Makes me wonder if their paths ever crossed IRL to the point where BK offered to help K or M?

Not worth the time comparing but it makes me question other cases where victims and/or perpetrators personal effects are not seized and pored over.

 

[schooling]

Good point. I suppose LE seize anything that is connected to the victims. Maybe I'm making something from nothing.

FWIW JMO it's not a coincidence that K was going to be working in tech/networking, had an interest in true crime, and felt she was being stalked. Then there's BK who was lurking around, took classes on cybercrime and criminal justice. Makes me wonder if their paths ever crossed IRL to the point where BK offered to help K or M?

Not worth the time comparing but it makes me question other cases where victims and/or perpetrators personal effects are not seized and pored over.

Agreed. I'm fully expecting that we're going to find out that their paths have crossed directly and/or indirectly multiple times. I'm still not sold that he was targetting Kaylee.

People keep pointing to a few of the late warrants as indication that the investigation is focusing on Kaylee. But I disagree. I just think it seems like they had a harder time identifying all of her accounts for one reason or another. It could be as simple as most of her stuff was packed away at home or spread across multiple locations. Also, I can't remember what I read ...but something made me wonder if they had a hard time getting in her phone or if they were able to at all.

My wife probably doesn't know my phone PIN right now (as she likely has no interest) but I'd give it to her in a heartbeat if she ever asked. So if something was to happen to me, LE would not be able to unlock my iPhone and Apple has proven to be largely uncooperative with that sort of stuff. Though I'm not familiar with their policy towards murder victims.

There are companies that will charge LE tens of thousands of dollars for a single phone unlock. But Apple usually patches their exploits with software and/or hardware updates. So it's a cat and mouse game.

I do know that Apple's ultimate goal is to build an iPhone that not even they can get into without the PIN.

MOO

 

[jepop]

Did they really get warrants for all the local UPS delivery trucks?

I think the UPS trucks all have a huge video camera on the front dash, and maybe even on the backside too.

So I could imagine that if one could have ALL the video from all those moving vehicles, one could browse through the footage to see if a certain white Elantra was in certain areas on certain days. Maybe?

I do think they want to nail down what he was doing on those prior visits to the area of the crime scene.

Defense will say he was going to the library to study or going to pick up food. The state would like to place him watching the victims going to and from the house, etc. Or maybe stalking them at the restaurant etc?

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20United%20Parcel%20Service%20UPS.pdf

I've thought that too and it does tie in with the timing and the scope of the warrant. LE were definately looking at white elantras at the time and BK's was identified on Nov 29 (as per PCA).

Warrant was received 2 Dec, Served 5 Dec, Returned 5 Dec 2022.

Original Motion to seal Reasons:
"1.Interfere with enforcement proceedings;
2. Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy
3. Disclose the identity of a confidential source; and
4. Disclose investigative techniques and procedures."

The source here may be a detective who interviewed/investigated (for e.g) UPS at Pullman and discovered there were deliveries made to Moscow in days surrounding the murders.MOO The (speculated by me) source may also show PC by explaining the white elantra line of investigation.MOO and speculation. Source might also be a tip from UPS worker. Because BK was on radar at this point I tend to think UPS Pullman was probably approached by detectives though. MOO

Scope of Warrant:
"Any and all video that is recorded and stored on any delivery trucks that were in
MoscowIdaho between the dates ofNovember 6'h 2022 through November 14th 2022,located in or upon the following described premises:United Parcel Service (UPS)...In the Matter ofthe Applicationfor a Search Warrant for:United Parcel Service (UPS)615 North Grand Ave.Pullman Washington, 99163MPD Case No. 22-M09903"

ETA: On what you say (BBM) at the bottom of your post. This could be interesting if defense do end up going down that line. According to the PCA, BK's phone never pinged again off towers in the Moscow region after NOV 14th. At least 12 times prior to that date. So defense would have to either be arguing that BK stopped his regular (late night) shopping or other benign activities in Moscow suddenly after Nov 14th, or he just decided to always turn his phone off or the battery always died on occasions after Nov 14th when he continued his regular late night early am activities. Or perhaps (likley) they will attempt to discredit the ping info. At one point It was discussed on threads that possibly BK ditched his phone or got a new number. I never really sawa that as a realistic idea and don't believe that was the case at all since PA search warrants released..All in previous paragraph is MOO.

ETA: added last sentence to previous ETA.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The families are speaking out and want their 1st Amendment Rights... Freedom of Speech. They are thankful to those who drove this investigation. That means US folks: Terrific work.

"the attorney for the family of victim Kaylee Goncalves, also filed a motion arguing that he should be allowed to express the Goncalves family's opinions and should not be included in the gag order.

the Goncalves family thanked the media for its coverage of the case, saying they "believe it was the coverage by the media of the victims families, numerous witnesses and undeniable evidence that led to an arrest in this case." Keep working for justice!!! Nice work!!!

The family's 1st Amendment rights were never revoked or threatened. They never lost those rights.

JMO.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

“(DeSales University has) an entire house, they call it the crime scene house, that is used for simulations, for crime scene investigation or collecting evidence or crime scene photography or responding to other emergencies."
According to court documents, Kohberger’s criminal justice studies were important enough for detectives to investigate. While executing a search warrant at Kohberger’s parents’ home, investigators recovered a criminal psychology book and DeSales University documents.

I wonder how that 'crime scene house' compares to the Moscow crime scene house.

Off-Topic but your post made me think.
I have a class this year called simply 'Sacrifice", its an anthropology course but some take it as a science elective. There are 6 students. 2 Anthro students and 4 criminology students. As one of those Athro students, I have tried to bring up this case with the crim students. Not one of them will bite.
ETA: Just my expierence
ETAA: They have been very vocal about the 'crime scene house labs' they have had assessments for but will not engage in this topic.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yep, taking everything electronic like that that they can under warrant is just good policing, whether the items belong to a victim or a suspect.

They took BK's computer tower and Firestick from his apartment. For all we (or they) know, he did nothing with them but play Minecraft and watch reruns of The Great British Bake Off, but they're not just going to assume that and not take them.

MOO

Would they enter them into evidence if nothing is found or return them?