4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[BeginnerSleuther]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

the quoted post specifically asked about the warrant for the garbage search at the kohberger home and specific to this case. my reply is both general and specific. icbw, but the Kohberger defense may or may not address this evidence. imo jmo.

It is legal in PA to search garbage abandoned at the curb. Garbage left in the curtilage around the home, however, is a different thing altogether. This link was allowed previously, so I use it again:

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www.thefishmanfirm.com

bolding is mine. explanation from the link, quoting here for ease of access

Curtilage. Curtilage is a somewhat elusive concept to understand because there are no steadfast rules to define it. The Supreme Court stated that curtilage is the area of a property that houses the “intimate activity associated with the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of life.” Although this may sound eloquent, it does not quite give the average person a solid idea of what curtilage actually is.

Generally, curtilage is considered to be the area in and around the home where the owners and/or occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy from government intrusion. This could encompass anything from an outdoor shed to a fenced backyard. Because of the expectation of privacy associated with these areas, police officers may be required to have a warrant, consent, or exigent circumstance before they are legally allowed to enter into the curtilage.

Garbage. Police can search your garbage in Pennsylvania if it is placed on your curb for pick up. Once the trash is placed on the curb, it is considered abandoned property and the police may seize it or search it for evidence of illegal activity.

re the kohberger case:

Imo jmo Curtilage v curb can sometimes get sticky. apparently, the trash in PA was at the curb. I would not be totally shocked if the defense sees it differently, however. that's jmo icbw. Many (most) will dismiss my caveat, but the curb v. curtilage re expectation of privacy has happened before.

here's WA to give a perspective on some of the arguments. see link below as an example. cut to 1294. relevant as to any trash search in the kohberger case but idk know that there was one. just including for context as to how things can be interpreted, and relevant b/c PA also as higher expectation, so on my radar as a potential consideration imo jmo icbw

https://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2613&context=sulr

Pennsylvania does have a higher expectation of privacy, as does WA state, but the courts' interpretations/ applications of that can still be quite different. imo jmo ime it is never wise to use one case to support an opinion. it requires research and evaluation imo jmo ime.

Search and seizure law in Pennsylvania - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you, SGH! I know the mods want to prevent going off-topic, but IMO, the reason they needed the trash in order to confirm BK is important to the case if the new information regarding an out-of-state lab is true. This added piece of information re: PA law regarding trash is also important, IMO. All MOO. June can't come too soon.

 

[U.N. Known]

Something has been niggling me for some time and brought to the fore with the most recent document releases--the possibility that the man who walked past DM in dark clothing and a mask is not the same person who committed the murders.

I know that is an odd idea, maybe even ridiculous, but it could explain some of the seeming inconsistencies and questions. DM, from what was released, did not see a weapon (that some posit would have been hard to miss), and did not notice blood on the intruder. He was wearing dark clothing, but at least some of his face was visible. Would it be more likely to have blood spatter on his upper person than on the floor due to t most victim's prone position? There was no noticeable blood near DM's room and has been noted, the intruder walked right past her rather than attacking her.

There is also the short, though possible time-frame of the car riding around the house, to the short window from the last pass around the house to the last pass when the white Elantra was seen driving by at an accelerated speed.

I am not arguing that the above solves the case nor am I suggesting anything beyond what I posted above. I have seen no evidence of two people in the house that night, but it has been suggested in various ways in various places. The idea that the intruder who was seen and the killer being different people has just been rolling around in my mind and I'm interested in your thoughts.

 

[schooling]

As I see it, if they can show that BK purchased a Ka-Bar type knife that could have been the one used in the murders, the fact that LE can’t find it is almost as significant as if they had found it.

I do mostly agree. But I also think that the window of opportunity to dispose of the murder weapon was wide enough that a reasonable person could understand why it couldn't be found. If they pulled him over on the way home from the crime it would have been a different story.

If there was a sheath on the bed with no dna. and they couldn't find a murder weapon. it would be a totally different story.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thank you, SGH! I know the mods want to prevent going off-topic, but IMO, the reason they needed the trash in order to confirm BK is important to the case if the new information regarding an out-of-state lab is true. This added piece of information re: PA law regarding trash is also important, IMO. All MOO. June can't come too soon.

Dr. S, you bring the objective assessment I came to WS to find, and imo jmo, you are right. In the Kohberger case, the chain of custody re the sheath and the unknowns around testing it, from the sheath to the curb (or curtilage) to the lab(s), will all be critical to examine. The role of the IA investigation of the officer may also be important, imo jmo. Maybe we'll even find out the identity of the CI referenced in the motions and orders. Even the PCA raises question for me. imo jmo I hope the hearing will dig into a lot of the same details we're questioning now.

One of my biggest pieces of doubt centers on the fact that there hasn't been anything that places BK inside the house with the exception of that sheath. Hopefully, that's not the strongest case they have because imo jmo that will be an area where the defense will be keen to raise doubt. that's just imo jmo.

Although the PCA contains an abundance of detail re Kohberger's car and phone from pages 12-18, that doesn't actually put him in the house imo jmo. Of course imo jmo this is an important sequence of events, but I would argue that additional footprint/fingerprint/DNA evidence would have been every bit as compelling if it were available, and it would have put him inside the house. Even though there's all the evidence and it can take time to process, if LE was able to ID DNA on the sheath, I'd think that if they had other DNA that was Kohberger's alone (for ex, if he cut himself and dripped blood), they'd also have been able to identify by the time the PCA was prepared. Ditto with a full shoe print. The argument that LE just didn't need to include it doesn't make sense when it would have been so much more powerful than 6 pages of phone records since it would place BK in the scene, not just around and close to it imo jmo.

So all that to say, yowza, June can't come soon enough, and maybe more of these missing pieces will be filled in. We'll know much more then, but of course, we still won't hear from the defense.

the possibility that the man who walked past DM in dark clothing and a mask is not the same person who committed the murders.

imo jmo it's funny how things change with new perspective based on partial information that raises more questions than answers. A few months ago, I would have considered your thought too out there, but now, I have many questions like this, some theories that would probably inspire new WS TOS and I now think the impossible is possible, and imo jmo
your thought above is a possibility imo jmo


sharing this with WSers who may not have read it (I hadn't)

The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved

The brutal murders of four Idaho college students shocked millions. Through social media posts, court records, and other primary sources, author Kathleen Hale forensically reconstructs their lives before the crime, and the night they were killed.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Personally, I am happy to wait for end of June to see what else the state has on BK that they will present at the pretrial hearing that will build on what has been seen so far in terms of them charging BK. He is being kept in jail on no bond with no objections/appeals because there is plenty in hand the state has that implicates him. jmo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Dr. S, you bring the objective assessment I came to WS to find, and imo jmo, you are right. In the Kohberger case, the chain of custody re the sheath and the unknowns around testing it, from the sheath to the curb (or curtilage) to the lab(s), will all be critical to examine. The role of the IA investigation of the officer may also be important, imo jmo. Maybe we'll even find out the identity of the CI referenced in the motions and orders. Even the PCA raises question for me. imo jmo I hope the hearing will dig into a lot of the same details we're questioning now.

One of my biggest pieces of doubt centers on the fact that there hasn't been anything that places BK inside the house with the exception of that sheath. Hopefully, that's not the strongest case they have because imo jmo that will be an area where the defense will be keen to raise doubt. that's just imo jmo.

Although the PCA contains an abundance of detail re Kohberger's car and phone from pages 12-18, that doesn't actually put him in the house imo jmo. Of course imo jmo this is an important sequence of events, but I would argue that additional footprint/fingerprint/DNA evidence would have been every bit as compelling if it were available, and it would have put him inside the house. Even though there's all the evidence and it can take time to process, if LE was able to ID DNA on the sheath, I'd think that if they had other DNA that was Kohberger's alone (for ex, if he cut himself and dripped blood), they'd also have been able to identify by the time the PCA was prepared. Ditto with a full shoe print. The argument that LE just didn't need to include it doesn't make sense when it would have been so much more powerful than 6 pages of phone records since it would place BK in the scene, not just around and close to it imo jmo.

So all that to say, yowza, June can't come soon enough, and maybe more of these missing pieces will be filled in. We'll know much more then, but of course, we still won't hear from the defense.



imo jmo it's funny how things change with new perspective based on partial information that raises more questions than answers. A few months ago, I would have considered your thought too out there, but now, I have many questions like this, some theories that would probably inspire new WS TOS and I now think the impossible is possible, and imo jmo
your thought above is a possibility imo jmo


sharing this with WSers who may not have read it (I hadn't)

The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved

The brutal murders of four Idaho college students shocked millions. Through social media posts, court records, and other primary sources, author Kathleen Hale forensically reconstructs their lives before the crime, and the night they were killed.

www.vanityfair.com

IMO, you are assuming there is only a sheath that places Kohberger in the house. The facts are 4 students were knifed to death, a sheath was found next to one of them, and it certainly was out of place. It was the most convenient item to test for DNA because it did not fit. We have absolutely no idea what else, if anything, places him in the house. It's really not fair to try to paint the prosecution into a corner of "the only evidence they have is what is on the PCA". We all know that isn't true because they executed search warrants *after* he was arrested. We have absolutely no idea what, if anything, came back after the evidence was analyzed. All JMO

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

Dr. S, you bring the objective assessment I came to WS to find, and imo jmo, you are right. In the Kohberger case, the chain of custody re the sheath and the unknowns around testing it, from the sheath to the curb (or curtilage) to the lab(s), will all be critical to examine. The role of the IA investigation of the officer may also be important, imo jmo. Maybe we'll even find out the identity of the CI referenced in the motions and orders. Even the PCA raises question for me. imo jmo I hope the hearing will dig into a lot of the same details we're questioning now.

One of my biggest pieces of doubt centers on the fact that there hasn't been anything that places BK inside the house with the exception of that sheath. Hopefully, that's not the strongest case they have because imo jmo that will be an area where the defense will be keen to raise doubt. that's just imo jmo.

Although the PCA contains an abundance of detail re Kohberger's car and phone from pages 12-18, that doesn't actually put him in the house imo jmo. Of course imo jmo this is an important sequence of events, but I would argue that additional footprint/fingerprint/DNA evidence would have been every bit as compelling if it were available, and it would have put him inside the house. Even though there's all the evidence and it can take time to process, if LE was able to ID DNA on the sheath, I'd think that if they had other DNA that was Kohberger's alone (for ex, if he cut himself and dripped blood), they'd also have been able to identify by the time the PCA was prepared. Ditto with a full shoe print. The argument that LE just didn't need to include it doesn't make sense when it would have been so much more powerful than 6 pages of phone records since it would place BK in the scene, not just around and close to it imo jmo.

So all that to say, yowza, June can't come soon enough, and maybe more of these missing pieces will be filled in. We'll know much more then, but of course, we still won't hear from the defense.



imo jmo it's funny how things change with new perspective based on partial information that raises more questions than answers. A few months ago, I would have considered your thought too out there, but now, I have many questions like this, some theories that would probably inspire new WS TOS and I now think the impossible is possible, and imo jmo
your thought above is a possibility imo jmo


sharing this with WSers who may not have read it (I hadn't)

The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved

The brutal murders of four Idaho college students shocked millions. Through social media posts, court records, and other primary sources, author Kathleen Hale forensically reconstructs their lives before the crime, and the night they were killed.

www.vanityfair.com

If I was a juror in the trial, BK’s DNA present on the knife sheath would likely be enough for a guilty verdict.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

If I was a juror in the trial, BK’s DNA present on the knife sheath would likely be enough for a guilty verdict.

Fair enough that's why we have a trial and juries and reasonable doubt and BARD. We all have different opinions and levels of comfort. I think a lot of Idaho citizens will probably agree with you. jmo imo

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

IMO, you are assuming there is only a sheath that places Kohberger in the house. The facts are 4 students were knifed to death, a sheath was found next to one of them, and it certainly was out of place.

I totally agree with the bolded. those are the facts and I'd never say otherwise.

imo jmo what I said is that I hope they have more because the chain of evidence and testing may be an issue at trial. jmo imo.

I never assumed that is the only evidence - at all - nor do I assume there is more, though common sense would say that there is.

What I said is that I thought that if they had the other evidence by the time they wrote the PCA, it would have been stronger. that's all and it's jmo. I think if you reread my post, you'll see that.

It was the most convenient item to test for DNA because it did not fit. We have absolutely no idea what else, if anything, places him in the house.

My point exactly is bolded, and I never said otherwise. I just think if there were other evidence that could have been used in the PCA, it would have been stronger. I think that's a fair statement imo jmo.

It's really not fair to try to paint the prosecution into a corner of "the only evidence they have is what is on the PCA".

imo jmo I'm not painting the prosecution into a corner at all. I never said that the only evidence they have is what is in the PCA. I didn't say that at all, nor would I presume it. I said I want to know what else they have because it will answer a lot of questions for some of us.

We all know that isn't true because they executed search warrants *after* he was arrested. We have absolutely no idea what, if anything, came back after the evidence was analyzed. All JMO

I agree. it's why I've reviewed and summarized the warrant by name, scope, date. There's a ton of evidence, and I've not closed myself off to any of it, and I'm examining and questioning all of it imo jmo.


I'm here to question the process, the evidence, the holes in both sides of the case. I just don't know what the defense has at all, so I can't question it yet. as I said earlier, we're all here for different reasons, and I respect that others see this from a completely different perspective. That's fine, I think that is a good thing. my response above was specifically in reply to Dr. S's response.
<modsnip>

 

[Helechawagirl]

Dr. S, you bring the objective assessment I came to WS to find, and imo jmo, you are right. In the Kohberger case, the chain of custody re the sheath and the unknowns around testing it, from the sheath to the curb (or curtilage) to the lab(s), will all be critical to examine. The role of the IA investigation of the officer may also be important, imo jmo. Maybe we'll even find out the identity of the CI referenced in the motions and orders. Even the PCA raises question for me. imo jmo I hope the hearing will dig into a lot of the same details we're questioning now.

One of my biggest pieces of doubt centers on the fact that there hasn't been anything that places BK inside the house with the exception of that sheath. Hopefully, that's not the strongest case they have because imo jmo that will be an area where the defense will be keen to raise doubt. that's just imo jmo.

Although the PCA contains an abundance of detail re Kohberger's car and phone from pages 12-18, that doesn't actually put him in the house imo jmo. Of course imo jmo this is an important sequence of events, but I would argue that additional footprint/fingerprint/DNA evidence would have been every bit as compelling if it were available, and it would have put him inside the house. Even though there's all the evidence and it can take time to process, if LE was able to ID DNA on the sheath, I'd think that if they had other DNA that was Kohberger's alone (for ex, if he cut himself and dripped blood), they'd also have been able to identify by the time the PCA was prepared. Ditto with a full shoe print. The argument that LE just didn't need to include it doesn't make sense when it would have been so much more powerful than 6 pages of phone records since it would place BK in the scene, not just around and close to it imo jmo.

So all that to say, yowza, June can't come soon enough, and maybe more of these missing pieces will be filled in. We'll know much more then, but of course, we still won't hear from the defense.



imo jmo it's funny how things change with new perspective based on partial information that raises more questions than answers. A few months ago, I would have considered your thought too out there, but now, I have many questions like this, some theories that would probably inspire new WS TOS and I now think the impossible is possible, and imo jmo
your thought above is a possibility imo jmo


sharing this with WSers who may not have read it (I hadn't)

The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved

The brutal murders of four Idaho college students shocked millions. Through social media posts, court records, and other primary sources, author Kathleen Hale forensically reconstructs their lives before the crime, and the night they were killed.

www.vanityfair.com

Well written article summarizing their last hours; no new info and there are some small errors but well done overall.

 

[gremlin444]

Although the PCA contains an abundance of detail re Kohberger's car and phone from pages 12-18, that doesn't actually put him in the house imo jmo. Of course imo jmo this is an important sequence of events, but I would argue that additional footprint/fingerprint/DNA evidence would have been every bit as compelling if it were available, and it would have put him inside the house.

Thinking about fingerprint evidence. If they had his fingerprint at the house, what are the chances that they would have been able to match it to him by the time the PCA was written? There had been discussion about whether or not he would have been fingerprinted in PA for the school security guard job, but even if he had been, would that fingerprint have been put in a system that was easily accessible to ID police or would it have just been used in a background check, but then not entered into a national database for keeps (I know my local school district runs background checks with fingerprints, but those fingerprints don't then become part of a statewide or nationwide system).

They wouldn't have been able to take prints from his grad office or apartment before the PCA. Either they weren't following him around in Pullman trying to get lucky and see him throw out a cup in a public trash can or they were and he didn't pitch anything, because then wouldn't they have been able to use that for DNA matching instead of waiting to get the PA trash evidence? They might have looked in the PA trash, hoping to get a print, but chances of getting a good clear print there wouldn't have been too great, even more so if he was being extra cautious with what he threw out and how he threw it out).

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well written article summarizing their last hours; no new info and there are some small errors but well done overall.

I thought so, too, though it made me sad that Xana and Maddie had both had to deal with parents with addictions and legal problems. There were a couple of things in there I hadn't heard, but maybe those were the inconsistencies? jmo imo. editing to add: I know what it was I didn't know that really surprised me! THIS:

The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved

The brutal murders of four Idaho college students shocked millions. Through social media posts, court records, and other primary sources, author Kathleen Hale forensically reconstructs their lives before the crime, and the night they were killed.

www.vanityfair.com

What happened between Dylan’s encounter and the 911 call hours later remains unknown to the public. The two surviving roommates woke to discover the aftermath of those strange noises and voices in the night. In the kitchen, red liquid dripped down the cabinets, coming from the direction of one of the third-floor bedrooms. Off the hallway lay Ethan and Xana. On the exterior of Xana’s bedroom wall, more red liquid dripped down the concrete foundation. Upstairs, Maddie’s body was sprawled beside Kaylee’s. Investigators later called it the worst crime scene they’d ever seen.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Thinking about fingerprint evidence. If they had his fingerprint at the house, what are the chances that they would have been able to match it to him by the time the PCA was written? There had been discussion about whether or not he would have been fingerprinted in PA for the school security guard job, but even if he had been, would that fingerprint have been put in a system that was easily accessible to ID police or would it have just been used in a background check, but then not entered into a national database for keeps (I know my local school district runs background checks with fingerprints, but those fingerprints don't then become part of a statewide or nationwide system).

They wouldn't have been able to take prints from his grad office or apartment before the PCA. Either they weren't following him around in Pullman trying to get lucky and see him throw out a cup in a public trash can or they were and he didn't pitch anything, because then wouldn't they have been able to use that for DNA matching instead of waiting to get the PA trash evidence? They might have looked in the PA trash, hoping to get a print, but chances of getting a good clear print there wouldn't have been too great, even more so if he was being extra cautious with what he threw out and how he threw it out).

that's an interesting thought. iirc we talked about that early on. I know I have had to be fingerprinted and have a full background check, and run through Interpol for one job, plus with university classes and parking, fingerprinted again, so I would think that as a university employee, he would have been printed jmo imo. I also know that the Vanity Fair article showed the handprint on the glass, so if there were fingerprints there and they were his, it seems like they could have matched those. again, IDK, just me considering it. I'm not saying that they should have had it matched. I'm just saying it would have been compelling evidence if they did. imo jmo.

editing to add this doozy and there goes my life of crime lol:

this is from Black's Law Dictionary which is the standard so I believe what is written here about fingerprint background checks.

Black's Law Dictionary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How Does A Fingerprint Background Check Work?

How does a fingerprint background check work, exactly? Let's take a look at the basics of fingerprint background checks and the information they collect.

thelawdictionary.org

What Is A Fingerprint Background Check?​

A fingerprint background check is used to pull up information about a person that is stored in a database. Regardless of what the check is done for, the data is collected and kept by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System, which houses approximately 70 million criminal backgrounds. Prior to technological advances, fingerprint background checks were taken the old school way – by pressing a finger in ink, stamping it on paper, and uploading it to a database. But now, everything is done much more efficiently, on a scanner that records the fingerprint electronically.

 

[Sundog]

dbm

that's an interesting thought. iirc we talked about that early on. I know I have had to be fingerprinted and have a full background check, and run through Interpol for one job, plus with university classes and parking, fingerprinted again, so I would think that as a university employee, he would have been printed jmo imo. I also know that the Vanity Fair article showed the handprint on the glass, so if there were fingerprints there and they were his, it seems like they could have matched those. again, IDK, just me considering it. I'm not saying that they should have had it matched. I'm just saying it would have been compelling evidence if they did. imo jmo.

Some universities (and university systems) in the U.S. require fingerprinting of employees (faculty and staff) but others do not. In Ohio, at the university where I work, the only faculty, staff and graduate students who need to be fingerprinted are those who work with minors who either come on to campus for classes and programs, or for those who go into K-12 schools for various reasons. But in California at the university where I worked, all faculty and staff were fingerprinted before they received final contracts for employment.

At the time, afterward I never thought about where those fingerprints ended up, but now I wonder.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

dbm

Some universities (and university systems) in the U.S. require fingerprinting of employees (faculty and staff) but others do not. In Ohio, at the university where I work, the only faculty, staff and graduate students who need to be fingerprinted are those who work with minors who either come on to campus for classes and programs, or for those who go into K-12 schools for various reasons. But in California at the university where I worked, all faculty and staff were fingerprinted before they received final contracts for employment.

At the time, afterward I never thought about where those fingerprints ended up, but now I wonder.

see my post above because Black's Law Dictionary lays it all out. I probably can't throw a gum wrapper on the ground without being caught! (used for example only, I don't litter lol). editing to add that a lot of financial institutions use them, too. I think I have to do it whenever I go to the teller to go into my safe deposit box. from the Financial industries regulatory authority: No Password? No Problem: Banks Bank on Biometric Authentication | FINRA.org

 

[Boxer]

It has been posted, I think towards the end of the last thread? Several members here were dubious about the content. Questioned whether legally, the sisters could have been fired as the article claimed without their employers (rightly) facing lawsuits. It is the Mail, so, creative interpretation of the facts could be a factor. Or, it could be truth. But it doesn't seem to be verified by another credible source, as far as I know, yet.

MOO

Agree. The DM info has to be confirmed with other sources. They just print crazy wrong things too many times, no corrections.
Many have pointed out the DM is great with telescopic and other photos but their reporting is not reliable at all.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Well said! The Morphew case was a good example of overdoing it, what with a 132 page AA with theory, guesswork and contradiction.

I don't see the Morphew AA that way. What would we know without the details in it? Only what reporters were able to snippet into Twitter & handwritten notes from the PH. And I don't remember any contradictions, but am open to learning (outside this thread, of course).

There are no rules in any jurisdiction that state how long a PCA/AA should be AFAIK. Especially because BM hasn't gone to trial, the long AA has offered insight into evidence & LE opinion that still place one person into a perp spotlight, like a deer caught in headlights.

We, the public, get left out of so much due to gag orders, refusal of cameras in courtrooms, etc., I'm happy to get any crumbs we can get & even happier when LE opines at length.
MOO

 

[jepop]

Thinking about fingerprint evidence. If they had his fingerprint at the house, what are the chances that they would have been able to match it to him by the time the PCA was written? There had been discussion about whether or not he would have been fingerprinted in PA for the school security guard job, but even if he had been, would that fingerprint have been put in a system that was easily accessible to ID police or would it have just been used in a background check, but then not entered into a national database for keeps (I know my local school district runs background checks with fingerprints, but those fingerprints don't then become part of a statewide or nationwide system).

They wouldn't have been able to take prints from his grad office or apartment before the PCA. Either they weren't following him around in Pullman trying to get lucky and see him throw out a cup in a public trash can or they were and he didn't pitch anything, because then wouldn't they have been able to use that for DNA matching instead of waiting to get the PA trash evidence? They might have looked in the PA trash, hoping to get a print, but chances of getting a good clear print there wouldn't have been too great, even more so if he was being extra cautious with what he threw out and how he threw it out).

BBM: I've pondered the same questions and along similar lines. I lean towards LE having attempted to get a dna sample from BK curb trash in WA or via some other surreptious but legal (without a warrant) method at some point after BK came on the radar. In this speculated scenario I see investigators attempting and failing to get a BK dna sample via such means.
Ditto for prints if there were any unknown/non-eliminated prints found at the crime scene (possible I guess but I suspect/speculate that the alleged killer wore gloves). MOO.

Then in mid December BK took off for PA with his dad. MOO

Regarding your mention of the PA trash collected by LE/fbi on 27th DEc(as per PCA), ditto as above - investigators hoping for BK dna sample. As you say, it's also possible LE/fbi were looking to recover a print but I agree about the difficulties that would have presented inaddtion to thinking that it's unlikely unidentified/unknown prints were recovered from the crime scene. MOO

Edited: altered last paragraph to remain focussed on topic.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If I was a juror in the trial, BK’s DNA present on the knife sheath would likely be enough for a guilty verdict.

That and the description of the unknown man in the house fitting BK's description would likely be enough for me. The knife sheath had no business being in the house.

 

[Bogbacal2]

This thread has been interesting to say the least. For me, everyone‘s post offers a little something to think about. This case is challenging, educational and is definitely teaching me how to become a better sleuther. IMO, this case takes a toll now and then and at the end of the day, we all want the same thing. Justice for these kids, Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan.