4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

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Extensive article in the Boise Statesman regarding the "white snow" issue that Kohberger suffered from starting in his
early teens. Interesting if this will be used by the defense.
Hmmm. Personally, I've pretty much skipped over discussions of BK having "Visual Snow Syndrome (VS)" or "white snow" issue because I have never seen any proof that he was officially diagnosed with it "in his teens", nor that he still suffered from it last November, nor that such a syndrome could be a cause for stalking people and plotting and then carrying out a quadruple homicide, allegedly.

All I've seen is "supposed" posts by him online that have since been deleted from years ago that he posted he started having it on a certain day of a certain year (really?, just like that he develops a syndrome on a certain day?). So color me cynical, and thinking it will be a big ole stretch for BK's defense to get anywhere with that.

All MOO
 
Finally I have found something about this Idaho College Murders. It's the case that keeps me up at night, I have written journals and papers about this. I want to understand why. Why this man, did this, it feels like the trial is so far away. I am looking for answers now. While this case does hit close to home for me - a little too close. I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on this case, this case has grabbed my attention, heart, and I want to know why.

I was watching the recent series on Hulu called "The Lesson is Murder" with Bryanna Fox, and if you haven't watched it, I suggest taking a look. This show is finally something I think sheds great light on the reasons why a serial killer acts the way he/she does.

Back to the real reason I am here - Xana, Kaylee, Maddie, and Ethan. - For any members that may read this, you have my heart and I truly wish you ease in your grieving process, and hope that you keep your heads held high. You all are in my thoughts and prayers.

I am just wanting to see and hear your thoughts on this case. Everyone's thoughts. I want this case HEARD. These poor devastating murders. Senseless.

The good thing is that there are survivors.

So let's talk about it, yes while I may be new here, I have seen Websleuths mentioned multiple times in the Documentaries that I watch and now I want to be a part of the community in hopes to make a difference. Not only in the Idaho Murders, but all the cases that I can be of help too. I think this community is outstanding and can help me shed more light on this case and the reasoning of WHY this happened.

The gag order that has been passed is just wrong in my opinion. Bryan objected to loosen the gag order in the motion to have it removed, what do you guys think about this? While yes, everyone deserves a fair and seedy trial - Is it really fair that the victims families are silenced? I'd love to hear thoughts.

What about Bryan himself? I mean why spend all that time in school for a Criminology just to kill people? What do you think his reasoning was behind this? Do you think that he did this so he could get away with murder? Get on the police force and be on the inside while also trying to get away with murder on the outside? - Seems far fetched.

WHAT WAS THE MOTIVE? Did one of them hurt his ego? Had he always been thinking about murder? Was he stalking Kaylee? Were they just a target of a man suffering from a mental illness, like I have read in many articles.

I want your help, your thoughts and opinions. I want to know why, and I want to talk about it.

Nice too meet you fellow Websleuths, I think you all are amazing at what you do and it's an honor to be here to talk about this with you.

Thanks,
CrimeKitty29
Hi CrimeKitty29. Welcome
 
Finally I have found something about this Idaho College Murders. It's the case that keeps me up at night, I have written journals and papers about this. I want to understand why. Why this man, did this, it feels like the trial is so far away. I am looking for answers now. While this case does hit close to home for me - a little too close. I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on this case, this case has grabbed my attention, heart, and I want to know why.

I was watching the recent series on Hulu called "The Lesson is Murder" with Bryanna Fox, and if you haven't watched it, I suggest taking a look. This show is finally something I think sheds great light on the reasons why a serial killer acts the way he/she does.

Back to the real reason I am here - Xana, Kaylee, Maddie, and Ethan. - For any members that may read this, you have my heart and I truly wish you ease in your grieving process, and hope that you keep your heads held high. You all are in my thoughts and prayers.

I am just wanting to see and hear your thoughts on this case. Everyone's thoughts. I want this case HEARD. These poor devastating murders. Senseless.

The good thing is that there are survivors.

So let's talk about it, yes while I may be new here, I have seen Websleuths mentioned multiple times in the Documentaries that I watch and now I want to be a part of the community in hopes to make a difference. Not only in the Idaho Murders, but all the cases that I can be of help too. I think this community is outstanding and can help me shed more light on this case and the reasoning of WHY this happened.

The gag order that has been passed is just wrong in my opinion. Bryan objected to loosen the gag order in the motion to have it removed, what do you guys think about this? While yes, everyone deserves a fair and seedy trial - Is it really fair that the victims families are silenced? I'd love to hear thoughts.

What about Bryan himself? I mean why spend all that time in school for a Criminology just to kill people? What do you think his reasoning was behind this? Do you think that he did this so he could get away with murder? Get on the police force and be on the inside while also trying to get away with murder on the outside? - Seems far fetched.

WHAT WAS THE MOTIVE? Did one of them hurt his ego? Had he always been thinking about murder? Was he stalking Kaylee? Were they just a target of a man suffering from a mental illness, like I have read in many articles.

I want your help, your thoughts and opinions. I want to know why, and I want to talk about it.

Nice too meet you fellow Websleuths, I think you all are amazing at what you do and it's an honor to be here to talk about this with you.

Thanks,
CrimeKitty29

Welcome! You'll find a ton of information in these threads. This is thread 76 on this case. Feel free to work your way backwards. You'll see a variety of opinions, from he's guilty 100% to maybe there's more to the story to he had an accomplice to he was framed. You'll also see people analyzing the evidence we have and the possible reasons for the evidence we don't.

One thing I'll say is that my read on the gag order is that it doesn't apply to the family members, only their attorneys. MOO.
 
Finally I have found something about this Idaho College Murders. It's the case that keeps me up at night, I have written journals and papers about this. I want to understand why. Why this man, did this, it feels like the trial is so far away. I am looking for answers now. While this case does hit close to home for me - a little too close. I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on this case, this case has grabbed my attention, heart, and I want to know why.

I was watching the recent series on Hulu called "The Lesson is Murder" with Bryanna Fox, and if you haven't watched it, I suggest taking a look. This show is finally something I think sheds great light on the reasons why a serial killer acts the way he/she does.

Back to the real reason I am here - Xana, Kaylee, Maddie, and Ethan. - For any members that may read this, you have my heart and I truly wish you ease in your grieving process, and hope that you keep your heads held high. You all are in my thoughts and prayers.

I am just wanting to see and hear your thoughts on this case. Everyone's thoughts. I want this case HEARD. These poor devastating murders. Senseless.

The good thing is that there are survivors.

So let's talk about it, yes while I may be new here, I have seen Websleuths mentioned multiple times in the Documentaries that I watch and now I want to be a part of the community in hopes to make a difference. Not only in the Idaho Murders, but all the cases that I can be of help too. I think this community is outstanding and can help me shed more light on this case and the reasoning of WHY this happened.

The gag order that has been passed is just wrong in my opinion. Bryan objected to loosen the gag order in the motion to have it removed, what do you guys think about this? While yes, everyone deserves a fair and seedy trial - Is it really fair that the victims families are silenced? I'd love to hear thoughts.

What about Bryan himself? I mean why spend all that time in school for a Criminology just to kill people? What do you think his reasoning was behind this? Do you think that he did this so he could get away with murder? Get on the police force and be on the inside while also trying to get away with murder on the outside? - Seems far fetched.

WHAT WAS THE MOTIVE? Did one of them hurt his ego? Had he always been thinking about murder? Was he stalking Kaylee? Were they just a target of a man suffering from a mental illness, like I have read in many articles.

I want your help, your thoughts and opinions. I want to know why, and I want to talk about it.

Nice too meet you fellow Websleuths, I think you all are amazing at what you do and it's an honor to be here to talk about this with you.

Thanks,
CrimeKitty29
Welcome aboard! Nice to meet you too, CrimeKitty29 :) Looking forward to hearing from you!

BK's motive for killing 4 innocent young people in the middle of the night at home sure is on everyone's minds but may never be known unless BK spills the beans, and up until now he has remained silent.

Maybe during the trial as more details come out and the prosecution presents their case and defense theirs, his motive(s) will be more clear. I don't think he was dealing with a full deck as my granny used to say, so his motives may never be clear.

Frustratingly, it's hard to say if there was a clear motive, especially since he wasn't "known" to the victims as far as we know.

There has been plenty of speculation, and innuendo in the media/SM, that he became obsessed with one or more of the victims and was driven to kill and chose them as targets. MOO
 
Finally I have found something about this Idaho College Murders. It's the case that keeps me up at night, I have written journals and papers about this. I want to understand why. Why this man, did this, it feels like the trial is so far away. I am looking for answers now. While this case does hit close to home for me - a little too close. I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on this case, this case has grabbed my attention, heart, and I want to know why.

I was watching the recent series on Hulu called "The Lesson is Murder" with Bryanna Fox, and if you haven't watched it, I suggest taking a look. This show is finally something I think sheds great light on the reasons why a serial killer acts the way he/she does.

Back to the real reason I am here - Xana, Kaylee, Maddie, and Ethan. - For any members that may read this, you have my heart and I truly wish you ease in your grieving process, and hope that you keep your heads held high. You all are in my thoughts and prayers.

I am just wanting to see and hear your thoughts on this case. Everyone's thoughts. I want this case HEARD. These poor devastating murders. Senseless.

The good thing is that there are survivors.

So let's talk about it, yes while I may be new here, I have seen Websleuths mentioned multiple times in the Documentaries that I watch and now I want to be a part of the community in hopes to make a difference. Not only in the Idaho Murders, but all the cases that I can be of help too. I think this community is outstanding and can help me shed more light on this case and the reasoning of WHY this happened.

The gag order that has been passed is just wrong in my opinion. Bryan objected to loosen the gag order in the motion to have it removed, what do you guys think about this? While yes, everyone deserves a fair and seedy trial - Is it really fair that the victims families are silenced? I'd love to hear thoughts.

What about Bryan himself? I mean why spend all that time in school for a Criminology just to kill people? What do you think his reasoning was behind this? Do you think that he did this so he could get away with murder? Get on the police force and be on the inside while also trying to get away with murder on the outside? - Seems far fetched.

WHAT WAS THE MOTIVE? Did one of them hurt his ego? Had he always been thinking about murder? Was he stalking Kaylee? Were they just a target of a man suffering from a mental illness, like I have read in many articles.

I want your help, your thoughts and opinions. I want to know why, and I want to talk about it.

Nice too meet you fellow Websleuths, I think you all are amazing at what you do and it's an honor to be here to talk about this with you.

Thanks,
CrimeKitty29
Welcome to Websleuths, @CrimeKitty29 !

I think the perpetrator thought about killing for a very long time, and studying crime was a way to explore and facilitate that. I think he had a fantasy, and he carried it out. I think the knife was important, that using the knife to kill was what he thought about for so long. We have no indications of sexual assault, so though I think this did have sexual elements, he gained satisfaction from the act of stabbing, not conventional rape. I think he stalked the house, but I don't necessary think he had a fixation on one person; it would have been virtually impossible for him to know who - if any - of the housemates was at home (and he wouldn't have recognised Kaylee's new car at all), since he didn't watch the house for hours on the night in question - he drove up, killed, then left. Any of the housemates could have still been out at a bar or club or frat/sorority house, or crashing on a friend's sofa. He also would have found it virtually impossible to tell the housemates apart in the dark, especially Maddie and Kaylee who bore a sisterly resemblance and were asleep in the same bed. I think he's arrogant, and convinced of his own intelligence and cleverness, so he made a lot of really basic mistakes. He assumed he was smarter than the police and other law enforcement assigned to the case would be, and, as a result, he was in custody in under two months. He lacked the insight that he needed to be more covert, to see that actions like using his own car, to taking his phone on his preliminary stalking missions, turning his phone off when actually committing the murder, and so on, actually highlighted him as a suspect.

But yeah, we will probably learn more in the future, and my concept of the crime and the person who did it will shift and change accordingly, but that's where I'm at right now.

MOO
 
All of you guys are the best!!! You've made this one of the greatest forums I've followed. While I don't always agree with everyone's perspectives and opinions, I recognize and appreciate the vast knowledge that all have contributed. It seems this group has gathered the interests of people with specialized expertise on almost every subject and all are eager to share without feeling in competition with one another. And this is a rare thing.
Lol, my dear father used to say that we are drawn to look at crimes and criminals because it reassures us that we are not all that bad ourselves. But I find that it's a great mystery of who dun it - and is a good distraction from our own real life challenges which diminish in size when we realize what others have endured.
I've learned much! Thank you all.
 
Thank you for that link. From the story:

The search warrant return record does not report the seizing of Kohberger’s cellphone or his car, though each is now in police custody.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272626296.html#storylink=cpy

they got it in PA when he was arrested. It's in the Pennsylvania receipt (the ID story had the link, but I should have clarified):

 
Thank you for that link. From the story:

The search warrant return record does not report the seizing of Kohberger’s cellphone or his car, though each is now in police custody.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272626296.html#storylink=cpy

I looked again at the list released to public March 2. Seems so long ago.
Cell phone is item 13 on evidence fro PA house. Car is listed on a receipt for property from the FBI.

EVIDENCE FROM PA HOUSE:
Knife
Book with underlining on page 118
AT&T bill for Bryan C. Kohberger
Glock 22 Gen S. 40 Caliber serial #BMXVSQI
Smith & Wesson pocket knife
Folder containing vehicle paperwork
Acer laptop
Green leafy substance in green container
Documents
Green leafy substance in plastic bag
White paper with password
Power cable

Cell phone
 
Hmmm. Personally, I've pretty much skipped over discussions of BK having "Visual Snow Syndrome (VS)" or "white snow" issue because I have never seen any proof that he was officially diagnosed with it "in his teens", nor that he still suffered from it last November, nor that such a syndrome could be a cause for stalking people and plotting and then carrying out a quadruple homicide, allegedly.

All I've seen is "supposed" posts by him online that have since been deleted from years ago that he posted he started having it on a certain day of a certain year (really?, just like that he develops a syndrome on a certain day?). So color me cynical, and thinking it will be a big ole stretch for BK's defense to get anywhere with that.

All MOO
Agree. All most all people with disabilities of all types and life disapponintments do not commit murder.
I was just watching part of a movie the other night, Matchstick Men, and there's a scene in that where the character does this with the garbage. It does seem to be an OCD or bipolar thing. I know someone IRL who has some really extreme behavior (very gentle guy, painfully shy, just real issues), and I could see how his behaviors would be translated negatively - in retrospect - if he were linked to a crime.

With BK - regardless of whether he is guilty or not, and I do believe it's likely he is* - imo jmo some of his behaviors may be unrelated to the murders. IDK jmo, but I try to keep that perspective.

*likely but no BARD met imo jmo on the evidence we have seen so far and because there are so many unanswered questions imo jmo
Agree much of his behavior is irrelevant.
But what questions do you have?
 
Hmmm. Personally, I've pretty much skipped over discussions of BK having "Visual Snow Syndrome (VS)" or "white snow" issue because I have never seen any proof that he was officially diagnosed with it "in his teens", nor that he still suffered from it last November, nor that such a syndrome could be a cause for stalking people and plotting and then carrying out a quadruple homicide, allegedly.

All I've seen is "supposed" posts by him online that have since been deleted from years ago that he posted he started having it on a certain day of a certain year (really?, just like that he develops a syndrome on a certain day?). So color me cynical, and thinking it will be a big ole stretch for BK's defense to get anywhere with that.

All MOO
My partner has an official dx of treatment resistant migraines (though she's having significant ease of pain with Emgality) but she has some kind of visual aura at all times (static, trailing, fireflies, rainbows, desaturation of colour, etc. etc., you name it, she's had it). When I talked with her about visual snow, she confirmed that's what a lot of her aura is like. She has lived with this for over twenty years, and it impacts her every waking moment. She's never had any inclination to be violent to anyone, ever.

Even if BK has VS, it's more than likely coincidence. Like colourblindness, which also affects how a person sees the world. It's a sensory and neurological difference, not a reason for homicidal violence.

MOO
 
What does dbm mean?
There are a lot of acronyms/abbreviations used in posts like "deleted by me" (DBM) when within an hour of posting you decide you want to delete your post you can click the edit button and delete text and save and say DBM as a courtesy instead of leaving the post blank.

There is a list somewhere on the "Home" tab that I can't seem to find at the moment (atm). Edited To Add (ETA) link from iamshadow21 below, thank you!
And here:

Websleuths Lingo

Here are links to some other info on forums that may be helpful:

Meet & Greet for New Members #3

Advice for those new to Websleuths
 
Last edited:
There are a lot of acronyms/abbreviations used in posts like "deleted by me" (DBM) when within an hour of posting you decide you want to delete your post you can click the edit button and delete text and save and say DBM as a courtesy instead of leaving the post blank.

There is a list somewhere on the "Home" tab that I can't seem to find at the moment (atm).

Here are links to some other info on forums that may be helpful:

Meet & Greet for New Members #3

Advice for those new to Websleuths
Websleuths Lingo

Of course, each individual thread will have its own abbreviations for victims, witnesses, perpetrators and suspects, family members, media outlets and individuals reporting on the case, and law enforcement departments and individuals. And, eventually, court employees, prosecutors, and defense attorneys, too.

MOO
 
Welcome to Websleuths!
I think we're all here with the same questions. People spend time in school for lots of reasons, that's for sure (I teach college). He started by studying psychology (AA and BA) then got an MA in Criminal Justice (not quite the same thing as criminology but is a good gateway to getting a doctorate in criminology). Most of his classes were online. He himself likes Rational Choice Theory (so good question about his own reasoning) and Script Theory (according to Prof B, a young professor who considered him brilliant and recommended him to WSU). He was in his first semester there, but was fired from his TA job along about Dec 9 after "altercations" with a professor and some other reasons.

The idea that he had fantasies about killing and was therefore drawn to criminology is definitely near the top of my own list of theories.

No one knows his motive. He might not even know. I suspect he did have some kind of weird connection to one or more of the housemates, though.

Websleuths has some of the best discussion on the internet and many, many very thoughtful people. Many specialists (such as in finding court documents and leading us to them or analyzing trials
Thank you! I am glad to be here.

I was just wondering about the schooling because even just starting out, you can get an Associate’s in Criminal Justice, then move from there, but like you said he started with Psychology, which in my opinion leads me to believe that maybe he wasn’t always thinking about murder. Maybe as a child he was suffering from his own mental health illness such as the “white snow” mentioned. He was heading for a journey to understand himself.

Then something may have changed in him, maybe he was mocked one too many times, ignored, let’s down or failing to find the answers he was looking for. Then after obtaining the BA it wasn’t enough. He turned, he then switched to the criminal justice degree. Started publishing online forums from DeSales wanting criminals to answer these kinds of questions, that maybe a potential murderer would want to know. The thought of that is scary. Can there be a theory or link made just from looking at his schooling? Do you all think this has a relation and can show us a pattern or even when he changed towards a path of no return.

I’ve opened my mind to different theories and possibilities because there aren’t any answers.

Let me just say when Kaylees father mentioned thet in the weeks before, Kaylee thought she had a stalker - Could it have been BK? What if it was? Would that gives us an MO? Did he want Kaylee? Did she turn him down? Could this be a reason he murders these poor students.

Or was it just the right house, with the right students, at the right time for a man that had a sick fantasy of murder.

If it was Kaylee he was after, why did he kill Ethan and Xana? While Maddie was simply in the bed with her so he couldn’t leave her behind. It had to be done. He left survivors, particularly one survivor that seen him, he continues out the door not even trying to harm her.

As you can see my mind races when thinking about this case. So many questions with little information.

When the probable cause affidavit came out, I listened and read it over and over and man if I just can’t make sense of it. Why kill 4 of them and leave 2 alive if it was mass murder he was after. The survivor seen him and he left her alive. But Ethan and Xana died as a result of finding the wrong room? Did he believe that Kaylee was in that room.

The crazy thing is, Kaylee didn’t even live there anymore. She just happened to be visiting her best friend to show her that she got a brand new car. Was he stalking her and knew that she was going to be there that weekend and just attacked because of convenience? The first room he entered was the wrong room, so on the the next one he goes. Therefor leaving the other survivors because the deed was done?

All of this is just me thinking out loud, or well typing to you guys in hopes that maybe I can make a bit more sense of the awful tragedy.

So yes this is all my own opinions, thoughts, and questions. Thanks for your response.
 
I think the perpetrator thought about killing for a very long time, and studying crime was a way to explore and facilitate that. I think he had a fantasy, and he carried it out. I think the knife was important, that using the knife to kill was what he thought about for so long. We have no indications of sexual assault, so though I think this did have sexual elements, he gained satisfaction from the act of stabbing, not conventional rape. I think he stalked the house, but I don't necessary think he had a fixation on one person; it would have been virtually impossible for him to know who - if any - of the housemates was at home (and he wouldn't have recognised Kaylee's new car at all), since he didn't watch the house for hours on the night in question - he drove up, killed, then left. Any of the housemates could have still been out at a bar or club or frat/sorority house, or crashing on a friend's sofa. He also would have found it virtually impossible to tell the housemates apart in the dark, especially Maddie and Kaylee who bore a sisterly resemblance and were asleep in the same bed. I think he's arrogant, and convinced of his own intelligence and cleverness, so he made a lot of really basic mistakes. He assumed he was smarter than the police and other law enforcement assigned to the case would be, and, as a result, he was in custody in under two months. He lacked the insight that he needed to be more covert, to see that actions like using his own car, to taking his phone on his preliminary stalking missions, turning his phone off when actually committing the murder, and so on, actually highlighted him as a suspect.

But yeah, we will probably learn more in the future, and my concept of the crime and the person who did it will shift and change accordingly, but that's where I'm at right now.

MOO
Thank you for your response. You are absolutely right, how would he have know Kaylee was there, especially since she was there showing Maddie her new car and they resemble one another.

Unless he has been in the house before how would he have know what room she was in. While her wounds may have been more severe, maybe she was fighting back, or as you mentioned he was getting a sexual gratification out of it and he just went overboard on her.

You’re right, he did an awful job at this. He wound up getting caught in less than 2 months, even though as it looks he planned. This is why I have just this tiny thought that he may have been Kaylees stalker. Her dad mentioned that she thought she had one and if it was BK then he could have possibly known that she had a new car.

I could also be overthinking because I do tend to do that. He, like you mentioned could just be sick murder with a sexual need to stab people and believes that he’s smarter than everyone else. This house was a perfect target to commit as many murders as possible. He thought thet he would outsmart the police and run back home to PA with his family after he just took 4 innocent young adults lives away from theirs.

Maybe there is just no understand this until the trial. But I will say. I have to keep trying, connecting thoughts and ideas and seeing what the connection is and, what shifted in him to turn him into this.

Thank you!
 
Welcome! Websleuths is an excellent place for a new person. Note the Threads near the top. You can go back in time and read as much as you wish on any topic.
I agree, the gag order ruling is frustrating. But IMO, it is necessary in order to have a chance at finding an impartial jury pool.

Again, welcome.
Thank you! I am happy that everyone is so welcoming. It's nice!

I've definitely been going through all of the information that's on here, this is an awesome place. I think I am in the right place to find some of the answers I am looking for and the opportunity to hear others opinions as well.

You are right, everyone does deserve an impartial jury. I do believe that, I just think that if the family wants to speak out on this, that they should be able to do so. I recently read that the family also can't speak out on anything they know because of this gag order. I understand attorneys and such, but hey that's my own opinion.

Thank you for your response!
 
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