4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

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I assume LE now has his phone, and they have been able to definitively tell whether he turned it off or simply put it on airplane mode. It's really hard to get an iPhone or an Android to completely ignore GPS. It's possible he turned it off altogether (not sure what kind of phone he has).

Do we know whether they have his phone? It ought to have been with him in PA, but I can't remember.
Yes, they have his phone. Warrant for the forensics from it has been issued and returned. The phone was collected in PA via search warrant.


ETA: Likewise, am willing to make the assumption it's likely investigators would know whether it was turned off; put into airplane mode; the network fell out and/or the battery died/ran out on Nove 13th between c2.50am (BK phone in in Pullman) and 4.48am (BK phone now south of Moscow near Blaine Idaho).
 
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Welcome to WS, @CrimeKitty29 !

So many question & so few answers while we wait for the preliminary hearing!

I do think Kaylee was a target although he likely wanted to commit mass murder & choose this house for that purpose.

As to why, neurobiology was recently mentioned in the threads. While I think BK is wired wrong, so to speak, I think nothing will excuse the heinous crime of taking four vibrant young people's lives & terrorizing two college towns.

Looking forward to healing your perspectives. Have you read the PCA?

JMO
Thanks!

I know I bombarded everyone with questions, but there is just so many isn't there? Not enough answers yet.

I also do not believe the illness that's been mentioned excuses anything he has done, I believe there may be a connection to it - As in maybe it's the reason behind the schooling. He started with Psychology and what if he started on that path to understand himself and his own illness and thoughts. - Just a thought.

From there it progressed, maybe he was unable to find answers in that, and lead him down another path. Maybe we can find the connection as to where it all changed for him. While I am so invested in the victims of this case and the awful heart break that the families going through. I've also been interested in what turns a person into a serial murderer. This case grabbed me, and I guess the why is what I am chasing. I want to connect all the dots.

Thank you for your repsonse.
 
There are a lot of acronyms/abbreviations used in posts like "deleted by me" (DBM) when within an hour of posting you decide you want to delete your post you can click the edit button and delete text and save and say DBM as a courtesy instead of leaving the post blank.

There is a list somewhere on the "Home" tab that I can't seem to find at the moment (atm). Edited To Add (ETA) link from iamshadow21 below, thank you!
And here:

Websleuths Lingo

Here are links to some other info on forums that may be helpful:

Meet & Greet for New Members #3

Advice for those new to Websleuths
Thank you! I will check this out! As you can see I am still learning. I appreciate the help and the links!
 
Thank you for that link. From the story:

The search warrant return record does not report the seizing of Kohberger’s cellphone or his car, though each is now in police custody.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272626296.html#storylink=cpy
Page 1 of Return of Inventory from Search Warrant of PA Residence. Cell phone is listed.

 
Thank you for that link. From the story:

The search warrant return record does not report the seizing of Kohberger’s cellphone or his car, though each is now in police custody.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article272626296.html#storylink=cpy
BBM re the car: From the Return of Inventory from the 2015 White Hyundai Elantra, I can see LE took some items from inside the car, including brake pedal, gas pedal, headrests, seatbelt and seat belt boot. I do make the assumption that the car was subjsct to a detailed forensic examination though (MOO) so I guess it definately would have been taken somewhere so that could be undertaken (IMO). I'm ignorant as to what kind of warrant that would require. Possibly there is already something in the fine details of the existing warrant in sections referring use of experts? Or perhaps a separate warrant is still sealed.

It makes sense to me that any detailed forensic findings returned from the car that might constitute evidence would be kept out of the public eye until the right time at trial.

Anyway, I've attached the Return of Inventory from the Hyundai Elantra via link straight from the Horse's Mouth (PA Court's website)


ETA: BBM
 
Thanks!

I know I bombarded everyone with questions, but there is just so many isn't there? Not enough answers yet.

I also do not believe the illness that's been mentioned excuses anything he has done, I believe there may be a connection to it - As in maybe it's the reason behind the schooling. He started with Psychology and what if he started on that path to understand himself and his own illness and thoughts. - Just a thought.

From there it progressed, maybe he was unable to find answers in that, and lead him down another path. Maybe we can find the connection as to where it all changed for him. While I am so invested in the victims of this case and the awful heart break that the families going through. I've also been interested in what turns a person into a serial murderer. This case grabbed me, and I guess the why is what I am chasing. I want to connect all the dots.

Thank you for your repsonse.
Right now he is likely to be convicted of mass murder. As to whether he's a serial murderer, LE is looking but nothing released by LE or the media at this time to indicate that.

From this recently updated article:
"The Statesman also broke down a rare neurological disorder known as visual snow syndrome that Kohberger reportedly suffers from.

People with visual snow report seeing small, moving dots across their vision, as well as suffering migraines and a ringing in the ears.

Old friends of Kohberger’s would mention that he would talk about it “all the time,” and an account on the online forum Tapatalk that seems to be Kohberger’s talks in-depth about the disorder."

I find the VSS interesting both from a neurological & mental health perspective. Did/does BK have migraines & ringing in the ears?

IIRC he was not found to be on any RX meds when arrested. It will be interesting to find out his true diagnoses, if any. What kind of treatment has he had over the years? Does he have any sleep disorders?

I ask these questions not because I think any answers will mitigate his crimes but because understanding WHY is potentially a source of preventative information. Other people like BK are ticking time bombs.

So many boys & men who commit these types of crimes have "deficits" that cause them not to fit in. When does social awkwardness cross over into pathology or does it? Are there ANY interventions that have been successful before the knife or gun was drawn & it was too late?

JMO
 
TY Jepop, SGH, and I'm Nobody for the correction and links.
That handwriting again...Scream!
Thinking about the Cellebrite that Gremlin444 mentioned and looking at that list again:

From PA house:
#7 Acer laptop
#13 Cell Phone
#26 One laptop with damage
#27 One laptop with damage
#39 Seagate Barracuda Samsung solid state drive
#40 Black box Samsung NVME 960 with intel EVO
#44 Motherboard
#53 HP all in one computer
#54 Lenovo Ideapad laptop
#55 Tangent model Medallion desktop

From Apartment:
Computer tower
Fire tv stick
 
Looking at the gun listed on the PA warrant:

#28 ? (looks like P/P or PSP) application/record of sale Glock

I checked Idaho and do not see any requirement for an application when purchasing, only a dealer selling form. Some of the older articles state that NICS check is required, but the newer articles I found do not mention NICS. Maybe someone here from ID can weigh in on current gun purchases in their state. MOO

PA does have a PSP application/record of sale form

The P/P could be purchase and possess application? or a PSP application?

I always thought it was strange to have a gun without ammunition. It might be a little less strange if it were a recent purchase. If it were a recent purchase, that might also explain when and how LE arrested him. MOO and speculating.

edit: corrected NICS
 
Extensive article in the Boise Statesman regarding the "white snow" issue that Kohberger suffered from starting in his
early teens. Interesting if this will be used by the defense.
I hit a paywall for that article. Can you summarize it?
In my other reading, I discovered there are two different categories. Visual Snow and Visual Snow Syndrome. People with Visual Snow Syndrome suffer additional non visual symptoms. The condition can range from mild to life altering. It can go away on its own after a period or worsen over time. If he still suffered from it, and it was documented, it might come up in the sentencing phase? MOO


I also found the Visual Snow Initiative which has videos of individuals describing how they first noticed it, sudden vs. gradual: stange random symptoms as much as a year before seeing visual snow or just woke up with it one morning.
 
ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.
 
I was thinking about some details re the gag order since points were raised above, and I am taking a pass (some first, others second) over some of these.

This one is interesting imo jmo:


  • Two attorney and their clients redacted (we can guess, but we can't know jmo imo)
  • The general interactions (jmo imo having been present during some meetings where attorneys are reminding others, imo jmo the meeting might have been a little more interesting than it appears in the summary jmo imo)
  • The judge is imo jmo making the right decisions re this case, and it is supported by both the prosecution and defense.

"In light of the extraordinary media coverage, the prosecutor and Mr. Kohberger’s counsel agreed that a nondissemination order was necessary to minimize the effects of prejudicial pretrial publicity. Four days later, they filed a stipulation with a proposed order with the court “to protect against adversely affecting the integrity of the case to be presented at trial”.

For those unfamiliar, although this is cited as Kohberger's request, it is AT and team, not his personal decision, and one as important for the trial as for potential appeals later. Although we'd all love to know the details, at what cost to the trial? And above all, I ask myself, cui bono from lifting the order?, and imo jmo the answer is the media and a few attorneys have a chance to elevate their name recognition, but overall, the 6th Amendment wins with the gag order and so I'm this all the way imo jmo.




Caveat: I've just started going through this, so imo jmo everything I think is subject to change, as so much of my opinion was and still is conjecture. Many more layers than I first suspected and guessing many more to come imo jmo

And since I mentioned 'appeals' above,


This will be important to keep in mind during trial imo jmo because the prosecution can't just appeal for no reason. Potential grounds for appeal in a criminal case include legal error, juror misconduct and ineffective assistance of counsel, and legal errors include improperly admitted evidence (a biggie), incorrect jury instructions, or lack of sufficient evidence to support a guilty verdict.

editing to add add'l link with approval

 
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I assume LE now has his phone, and they have been able to definitively tell whether he turned it off or simply put it on airplane mode. It's really hard to get an iPhone or an Android to completely ignore GPS. It's possible he turned it off altogether (not sure what kind of phone he has).

Do we know whether they have his phone? It ought to have been with him in PA, but I can't remember.

TIA. IMO.
The answer to this question is not that straight forward unfortunately.

With an Android phone there’s a feature called the Timeline that’s baked into Google Maps. The iPhone equivalent is Frequent Locations. Both of them have way too much data for any normal person to be comfortable with. It knows on 3/20/2023 that you stopped at a gas station at 8:34am at the 75 main st and then got to golds gym at 8:47am and left there at 9:16am and on your way home you stopped for a minute on the corner of Main and Washington to check a tire and ultimately got to home at 9:30am.

This feature only works when you’re connected to a cell network…supposedly.

GPS does not need a cell network as it’s satellite based. You can easily test this difference by opening your favorite mapping app on your phone. If you haven’t downloaded the entire map of the United States the map will be blank but you’ll clearly see the pin moving.

And Apple has made find my iPhone usable even when a phone is off or the first few minutes after it died. But they claim that they are not keeping any of this information.

Can detectives get it forensically? If it hasn’t been pushed out of the memory store….maybe.

But my vote is if his phone was in airplane mode or off, they don’t have that evidence. But I’d bet he didn’t know about the timeline feature. And they have all of that. It’s not much…but corroborates the cell tower data.

There’s another freaky “feature” that most people don’t know about. Google’s Search History “Feature” that’s baked into your account, not the browser version.
 
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I was thinking about some details re the gag order since points were raised above, and I am taking a pass (some first, others second) over some of these.

This one is interesting imo jmo:


  • Two attorney and their clients redacted (we can guess, but we can't know jmo imo)
  • The general interactions (jmo imo having been present during some meetings where attorneys are reminding others, imo jmo the meeting might have been a little more interesting than it appears in the summary jmo imo)
  • The judge is imo jmo making the right decisions re this case, and it is supported by both the prosecution and defense.

"In light of the extraordinary media coverage, the prosecutor and Mr. Kohberger’s counsel agreed that a nondissemination order was necessary to minimize the effects of prejudicial pretrial publicity. Four days later, they filed a stipulation with a proposed order with the court “to protect against adversely affecting the integrity of the case to be presented at trial”.

For those unfamiliar, although this is cited as Kohberger's request, it is AT and team, not his personal decision, and one as important for the trial as for potential appeals later. Although we'd all love to know the details, at what cost to the trial? And above all, I ask myself, cui bono from lifting the order?, and imo jmo the answer is the media and a few attorneys have a chance to elevate their name recognition, but overall, the 6th Amendment wins with the gag order and so I'm this all the way imo jmo.




Caveat: I've just started going through this, so imo jmo everything I think is subject to change, as so much of my opinion was and still is conjecture. Many more layers than I first suspected and guessing many more to come imo jmo

And since I mentioned 'appeals' above,


This will be important to keep in mind during trial imo jmo because the prosecution can't just appeal for no reason. Potential grounds for appeal in a criminal case include legal error, juror misconduct and ineffective assistance of counsel, and legal errors include improperly admitted evidence (a biggie), incorrect jury instructions, or lack of sufficient evidence to support a guilty verdict.

editing to add add'l link with approval

Appeals by prosecution are extraordinary. Regardless, if an entire jury finds this guy not guilty I will literally eat my home live on the internet. Yes, eat my home if 12 reasonable people all come to the conclusion that he’s not guilty.

Worst case scenario? IMO a Mistrial because 1 juror. And in that case the prosecutors will be willing to break the 8 retrials record to find him guilty.

MOO
 
I will literally eat my home live on the internet. Yes, eat my home if 12 reasonable people all come to the conclusion that he’s not guilty.

Worst case scenario? IMO a Mistrial because 1 juror. And in that case the prosecutors will be willing to break the 8 retrials record to find him guilty.

MOO
You can try this gingerbread house covered with sugar frosting.
So yummy! :D
 
You can try this gingerbread house covered with sugar frosting.
So yummy! :D
I don't think there is any likelihood that all 12 jurors would find Kohberger not guilty but I do have some concern regarding the penalty phase. Death by firing squad could be too extreme for some members of the jury. <modsnip>
 
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Glock Listed on PA Warrant. BK's???
snipped for focus @Nila Aella
Yes, looks like that to me too, w "Glock 22 Gen 5 40 caliber" w [not sure, "RM KV 501" or "RM KV S01", maybe a serial number?]

#28 is only a document relating to the Glock, not the gun.
#4 is the Glock itself.

Do we KNOW the gun was actually BK's (not a friend, fam, stranger)?
Did he buy it? New or used? Thru licensed Fed. F-A Dealer?
Receive as a gift? Or obtain unlawfully, perhaps during one of his (hypothesized) creepy-crawly episodes? After all, the "record of sale" is not necessarily a sale to him.

Did he obtain gun around same time as formulating his lethal scheme? Was that (Glock or other handgun) his first choice of weapon, which he later decided against? why? Too noisy or did he learn this Glock was defective or non-operational?

Cabelas.com, currently $569.99: "... fifth generation 40 caliber version of the duty-sized handgun... . It's the choice firearm of many law enforcement agencies worldwide." More below.
Round capacity: 15 plus 1.

Thinking aloud, drawing no conclusions. [Edit, slight clarification].

_____________________
Semi-related thoughts.
Why this gun? This Glock?
BK felt some affinity to LE, yes? Is he lefthanded? W biggie paws?
Also note below: "ambidextrous" & "larger hands."
" The GLOCK® 22 Gen5 Semi-Auto Pistol is a fifth generation 40 caliber version of the duty-sized handgun that started it all for GLOCK. It's the choice firearm of many law enforcement agencies worldwide....
ambidextrous slide release. The magazine catch is reversible. Plus, the front of the firearm is now beveled for easier reholstering...
for those with larger hands. ...
an integral accessory rail for a wide variety of light and laser accessories."
[deleted ¶ re production dates]
 
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The Glock?
May or may not be mentioned or relevant at trial.
Personally I'm curious -
Did he buy it. New or used? Price?
(Glock intro'ed Gen5 series in 2017* so not very old. Now ~ $580.)
Or was a gift?
Or unlawfully obtained?

BTW, on the listing of items seized** page 4/34, GUN itself was:
#4. "Glock 22 Gen 5 .40 caliber Serial #" ???
BMKV S01 or BMKV 501 or other???
___________________________________
* Glock - Wikipedia
**https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.tow...11ed-a68a-4bba2d612ddd/6400ac39e2a2d.file.pdf

On page 5/34, #28, re a doc. relating to the gun, looked like serial number started "RM" not "BM" imo.
 
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