4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[jepop]

Interesting. Do you recall if it was typed in all capital letters then too?
I have seen the prosecution ask this before in cases, but not in all caps. MOO

@Nila Aella and @Sister Golden Hair, if you're talking about the prosecution's first request for discovery from the defense that is missing from Cases of Interest page then I really do recall that a demand for Alibi defense was NOT part of the State's first request. That's just my memory of it, with all else in this latest request from the State looking about the same. I recall discussions here on the threads not too long ago about if and/or when Defense might have to communicate defense strategy to the State and there was confirmation that one of the few defenses the defendant would have to communicate would be an Alibi Defense. However, time limits would only kick in after arraingment. At that point we were expecting a plea post PH, so no Demand for Alibi Defense could be demanded by the State. Those are my memories FWIW. MOO.

ETA: Actually in going back through the up arrows I noticed the relevant section of ICR was posted, where it specifies that demand for Alibi Defense comes after Arraignment. BK was not arraigned as such prior to this Indictment?As in he hadn't made a plea?

As to why it is in Upper Case, I haven't thought. Would that be significant? IDK, perhaps others have an idea if it means anything.

 

[schooling]

I was very surprised to see the Pappa Rodgers stuff resurface in the Dateline show.
It was my understanding that this account had been debunked. Furthermore the account fell silent because it had been removed by admins, coincidentally the night before BK's arrest.
Additionally, contrary to what Dateline claims, the sheath stuff had been surmised by other posters on social media before Pappa Rodgers posted about it, I can't source that here but look around and you will find discussions of it.
View attachment 424509
Source (scroll way down): Sleuths claim to have spotted Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger at vigil

I have an entire page of notes on why Papa Rodgers is bunk. Including references to dozens of people saying things he gets credit for, long before he said it. And evidence of PR Facebook account activity (not necessarily posts) at times BK couldn’t have. Yes, even after his arrest.

I never shared because I thought it was finally widely accepted that the person was not BK. Thanks Dateline!

Also, PR was known for his Facebook posts. Not Reddit. If he did have a Reddit account (which he very well probably did) I rarely see it noted anywhere. That Facebook account is where PR was primarily active, and also active in posts about an Indiana community he was obviously a resident of. Which a lot of people don’t mention. And again, that account had activity during times it couldn’t possibly be BK.

Reddit? That was another purported BK account (also bunk). This confusion is a demonstration of how this thing has become practically mythical now. Divorced from reality. The other Reddit account (not PR) commonly associated with BK, though I think there’s also reporting on that one and I could probably cite it. It’s so exhausting and obviously fake I’d rather not.

 

[schooling]

I agree 100%.

While we are all sympathetic to the plight of the families in the run up to trials and during trials, criminal proceedings (including the awarding punishment to those found guilty) are not held primarily for the benefit of the families. The crime-- whether it's murder or something else-- isn't a crime against a family per se--- it's a crime against society. And while we don't look forward to seeing family members undergo difficult courtroom experiences including cross-examinations, the emotional experiences of the families (or other victims) cannot dictate what is appropriate during a trial that could deprive an individual of his/her liberty or his/her life. And if we did that, and gave a big role to the family in deciding things like punishment, should the big family of a victim--lots of adult sibs, for example-- have a larger say than a family consisting only of a widowed mother? What about victims who have no surviving family members? Do we care less about crimes against them than crimes against those with big families? Should "louder" families who are more willing to speak up have a larger say than "quieter" families?

All in all it's simpler to recognize it's not all about the families (even though families may disagree.) Trials for murder aren't all about the murder victims either (something families often don't understand.) That's certainly not to say no one cares about victims or surviving family members. Obviously as a society we have put things in place such as reserved seating at trials, the opportunity to make impact statements at sentencing, the right to attend executions, the right to pursue civil penalties against criminal perpetrators, and so on that recognize the effect of the crime on the family. But criminal trials are to help maintain an orderly society and to prevent vigilante justice, not to seek a preferred form of vengeance for a family.

In this case, an earlier post suggested 3 of the 4 families of the victims would want the DP sought and their desire should be followed. I don't know if those numbers are right. But do we really want punishment to be determined by "majority rule" with the only votes cast by people deep in grief?
JMO

Citizen expectations and reality is an interesting thing. You’re right, it’s not totally binary and it plays out differently in law enforcement, prosecutors offices’, and court rooms everywhere.

I think the Kaylee name mispronunciation and the controversy around it is a great representation of the juggernaut that is the wheels of justice and the components that make it human. And our struggle to reconcile those two things.

 

[NyxNY]

Are we allowed to discuss Pappa Rodgers? I interacted with him and he was ODD. I got the CREEPS immediately.

I was in that FB group at the time as well. I remember the back and forths, as well as the screenshots of PM's. Was that you? Also what was strange was when he was booted from the group, he started his own Idaho 4 page, and the cover photo was a montage of ALL Maddie. Some of the photos did include other people, but every.single.photo in that montage included Maddie. I think I have it saved somewhere. Shortly after his arrest, his account and photos disappeared.

ETA: Found the photo and link

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628726282576883721

 

[NyxNY]

Something made them look, IMO, and subpoena the parents.....MOO

IMO "IF" ID of the woman was found in BK's possession that would be the something that made this happen so quickly.

ETA: "IF"

 

[Justice101]

Judge John Judge is a man, just for the record. To me, there's only one way to pronounced Kaylee. One would think that the Judge had heard at least one news report about these murders. The press manages to pronounced them correctly. There's only one version of Kaylee in this case and it's not an unusual spelling like Khaley or Khalee (which I've never seen before and would have pronounced Kah-lee, most likely).

Xana: I get the mispronunciation. I would have supposed that Judge Judge had conversations off the record with both sets of attorneys and had opportunities to view some of the MSM coverage he's about to rule upon in the media motion. Did he pronounce it Zay-nuh?

We shall see if he corrects himself. One of the attorneys in the Letecia Stauch case had consistently trouble in the first week of trial with both parts of her name, and he was her own attorney.

IMO.

How many names do you have to read aloud every day and pronounce correctly?

 

[x_files]

Wow, BK wore gloves once home in PA 2,000 miles from the murders. That wasn't the first time he did this, either, he was reportedly seen wearing gloves at the grocery store weeks after the murders while still in WA/ID:

Bryan Kohberger stalked Idaho victims before murders, wore gloves in grocery store weeks afterward: report

He must have been having some kind of issues with his hands (covid/germ touching surfaces concerns while out shopping ? dermatitis?) to keep them gloved in a public place like a grocery store.

However, if he continued to do this when home with family over the holidays, I have to wonder if he either never gave them an explanation (like above possibilities), and/or he did but it didn't make sense to them?

Him wearing latex gloves while at home is not wholly surprising, though, viewed within the context of him wearing them late at night when he was arrested and found separating his trash into baggies:

Bryan Kohberger was wearing latex gloves, separating his trash into baggies when police raided parents' home: Prosecutor
"Authorities in Pennsylvania say that when police arrested Idaho University murder suspect Bryan Kohberger in his parents’ home two months ago, he was wearing latex gloves and separating his personal trash from the family’s kitchen garbage, placing his own refuse into several sealable plastic baggies."

MOO

If he wore latex gloves BEFORE due to an OCD that's one thing if it started AFTER the homicides that's another thing.

 

[x_files]

IMO, Pappa Rodger and the possibility that was BK's online username has been discussed here, but since there is no confirmation PR = BK, we can only speculate on connections that are reasonable and have a link from an approved MSM source.

Here is one (heavy.com was approved by Mods as a source a few months ago on this case, IIRC, hopefully that still stands, but I will self report my post to Mods to seek reapproval/clarification):

Pappa Rodger: Bryan Kohberger Theory on Idaho Murders Facebook Posts.

"The comments and questions posted by the now-deleted Pappa Rodger Facebook page have gone viral as people debate whether or not Pappa Rodger could have been Kohberger himself, with some people even creating Facebook groups into the unproven theory. Some people have called the comment poster Pappa Rodgers, Papa Rogers or Pappa Rogers, but screenshots show the writer used the name Pappa Rodger."

Thank you! I have zero proof it was him, but the poster asked very specific, detailed questions like he was quizzing the true crime sleuths in the FB group. Then he would correct other posters then supply the "right" answer.
He acted like only he had the answer and ran it like the posts as if he was a Professor in a college class. He needed to be viewed as intelligent and superior to others in the group.
He stated the killer purposely left behind the SHEATH with DNA BEFORE it was announced in the news. Could have been a bored troll with true crime obsessions he happened to make several lucky guesses. Or was indeed him wanting to insert himself into the case to prove how intelligent he is?
His posts immediately gave off a red flag to me like when I was online talking to Luka Rocco Magnotta. Immediate red flags. He wanted to relish that people were trying to figure out who he was after he released the videos torturing cats.

 

[SteveP]

How many names do you have to read aloud every day and pronounce correctly?

Other than mentioning it briefly the evening of the hearing, I have stayed away from the discussion of the multiple name pronunciation errors that Judge Judge made during BK's brief court appearance. First, I want to make it clear that I am sure they were not done intentionally, and the judge surely felt badly about the flubs, especially after it was noted that Kaylee's sister dressed down one of the court advocates afterwards. I will say, however, I may have found one slipup an acceptable case of nerves, but he completely butchered the names of two of the four victims. If he had never heard the names spoken, perhaps it may be reasonable to assume that the name 'Xana' would be pronounced with a long 'A', but referring to Kaylee as 'Kayla' is just unacceptable. That is not a simple mispronunciation. That is misreading the name, not once, but twice. Furthermore, for most people, 'Kernodle', while certainly not as common as 'Smith' or 'Jones', is not a terribly uncommon name, and the pronunciation seems to be pretty much straightforward, but yet he stumbled over that name several times.

I do not blame any family members for voicing disappointment in the mispronunciations of their loved ones' names. I probably would have responded the same way. This judge lives in the area, presumably, and unless he lives under a rock, he has surely heard the names of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin MANY times over the last six months, surely enough times to be able to pronounce them correctly. While he may have just had a bad case of nerves, which, if so, he better get over quickly, bc this case is going to be followed closely, all over the nation, his flubbing of the names was not a good look. Imo, though I am sure that is not the case, it made him APPEAR to be completely unprepared for the hearing. I trust their names will be pronounced correctly in the future. JMO

 

[x_files]

I just read an article about Ted Bundy - https://radaronline.com/videos/ted-bundy-death-row-execution-death-january-1989/#:~:text=For%20the%20first%20time%2C%20RadarOnline,me%20in%20sh**t.”

I found it interesting that Ted Bundy went to The University of Washington and so did BK. I wonder if BK went to the University of Washington for that reason or if it was part of his decision making.

Just my two cents

The UW University of Washington is different than the Washington University in Pullman. I know it's confusing!

 

[Red Clover]

SPECULATION

If Idaho and PA have shared info, could PA have already had ample digital forensics from Kohberger’s phone? Could that have placed him near the sire where Dana went missing, at the time she went missing? Or maybe in her vicinity on other occasions? Or both?

Has there ever been a case like that? My brain is overloaded. I want to ask if he returned to the scene of that crime? Was her ID one of the mystery ID’s? Was she blonde?

Is there a thread for Dana?

IMO

Thread for Dana Kristine Smithers

PA - Dana Kristine Smithers, 45, Stroudsburg, 28 May 2022 *found deceased in 2023, poss. tied to Bryan Kohberger*

MOO She got home and an intruder was in her house. She had phone walking from friends house, her phone was found in her home after disappearance. Good thought- I’d be really curious as to the placement of her phone at the house - was it on a table (if she just set it down before walking out the...

www.websleuths.com

 

[NuttMegg]

I didn't follow that trial, but surely every Vasquez ("Vahs-kase") in an English-speaking country is used to being called Vasquez ("Vaas-kwehz")!

My name begins with "Mac". It's a rare day when I don't have to tell someone, "No, it's 'm-A-c'." It doesn't "throw me off" and I don't assume there lice when somebody spells it wrong.

I was referring to the context within the court. The judge, other prosecution and defense lawyers pronouncing it correctly, except Elaine.

A favorite topic of mine, the Americanization of Spanish words, PlAAno texas, valdEEz Alaska, etc. But it happens in the opposite country too, and some prefer the Americanized version of their own names.
But I'm speaking of highly educated ppl in court, who have the same responsibility as 3J.
Never would expect the man on the street to pay a lot of attention to proper pronunciation of the names of strangers they meet.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was in that FB group at the time as well. I remember the back and forths, as well as the screenshots of PM's. Was that you? Also what was strange was when he was booted from the group, he started his own Idaho 4 page, and the cover photo was a montage of ALL Maddie. Some of the photos did include other people, but every.single.photo in that montage included Maddie. I think I have it saved somewhere. Shortly after his arrest, his account and photos disappeared.

ETA: Found the photo and link

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628726282576883721

Unbelievable, as in - WOW - if this is him then we now know his target.........Knife sheath was by her, many have thought she was the one he went to first, his main focus, looking through her room at eye level from the road behind house.

 

[x_files]

I have an entire page of notes on why Papa Rodgers is bunk. Including references to dozens of people saying things he gets credit for, long before he said it. And evidence of PR Facebook account activity (not necessarily posts) at times BK couldn’t have. Yes, even after his arrest.

I never shared because I thought it was finally widely accepted that the person was not BK. Thanks Dateline!

Also, PR was known for his Facebook posts. Not Reddit. If he did have a Reddit account (which he very well probably did) I rarely see it noted anywhere. That Facebook account is where PR was primarily active, and also active in posts about an Indiana community he was obviously a resident of. Which a lot of people don’t mention. And again, that account had activity during times it couldn’t possibly be BK.

Reddit? That was another purported BK account (also bunk). This confusion is a demonstration of how this thing has become practically mythical now. Divorced from reality. The other Reddit account (not PR) commonly associated with BK, though I think there’s also reporting on that one and I could probably cite it. It’s so exhausting and obviously fake I’d rather not.

Whether PR on FB was BK, we don't know right now, I'm sure the FBI does though, but the person running that profile sure was creepy. Acted like an insider.

One Reddit account was indeed linked to BK and a research quiz for a class assignment.
I have no idea about any PAPA RODGERS account on Reddit though.

<modsnip: not an approved source>

 

[x_files]

I was in that FB group at the time as well. I remember the back and forths, as well as the screenshots of PM's. Was that you? Also what was strange was when he was booted from the group, he started his own Idaho 4 page, and the cover photo was a montage of ALL Maddie. Some of the photos did include other people, but every.single.photo in that montage included Maddie. I think I have it saved somewhere. Shortly after his arrest, his account and photos disappeared.

ETA: Found the photo and link

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1628726282576883721

YES! I thought he used two PP in Pappa Rodgers too.
Whoever ran that FB profile is sure an odd duck if it's NOT BK!
Maybe he has a close friend or someone who knows him. It's a mystery and I cannot wait to find out if it was indeed his profile, if not this was some creepy troll!

 

[Balthazar]

Re: the Kohberger parents being subpoenaed...

I had been following the Dana Smithers thread since last year. I didn't realize initially that she was the victim for whom BK's parents were subpoenaed.

Dana Smithers went missing about a year ago, presumably murdered around that same time, but was just found a few weeks ago.

I really do wonder why BK's parents were subpoenaed over this. I mean, who is going to remember whether or not their adult son was home at a particular time on a particular evening a year ago. Kwim? I feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection found that seems pretty implicating of BK in order for his parents to both be brought before the grand jury. MOO.

I so agree. LE must have found evidence that links him when they searched his parents home or computer or something. You don't just convene a Grand Jury on a guess. BK's parents house is only 20 minutes away from her house. She was allegedly in rehab. Would she and BK have gone to the same group or knew each other some other way? And her BF stated that she was nervous that night and wanted her to come to her house and hang out. The BF didn't know why. Had she sensed she was being stalked? All IMOO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Interesting. Do you recall if it was typed in all capital letters then too?
I have seen the prosecution ask this before in cases, but not in all caps. MOO

I cannot say because I've nothing to compare it to but it's not like the all caps is yelling. IMO the all caps formatting is not the State giving us a hint or a show of emotion.

IMO the all caps are used for emphasis, setting the request apart from the numbered items above, and potentially because it has been added to the original request for discovery from the State.

Now that I review this again, I don't think it was in there previously b/c AT did not address it in the discovery response. It is still standard however, and the rules are below.

Based on 19-519 (link below), I'd say that the caps are just formatting, calling it out as an unnumbered addition to the original, and the State doing this:

19-519. Notice of defense of alibi. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.

Also, I checked the rules and law:

I.R.C. 12.1. Notice of Alibi. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[al66pine]

DANA Smithers Dexath. BK 's Parents Subpoenaed. Why?

Re: the Kohberger parents being subpoenaed...
the Dana Smithers....
I really do wonder why BK's parents were subpoenaed over this. I mean, who is going to remember whether or not their adult son was home at a particular time on a particular evening a year ago. Kwim? I feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection found that seems pretty implicating of BK in order for his parents to both be brought before the grand jury. MOO

{Eta. For unknown reason the post I responded to, somehow merged w mine.
Now trying to separate OP & response.}

{ETA 2: snipped for focis @vls12345 }

When MisPers remains are found & identified as having gone missing in BK's "daily range" of PA in recent (several?) years, seems LE agencies there might be inclined to put him on their "suspect list." And w appropriate investigation, presumably cross him off in early days. imo

Concrete evd. connecting BK to this missing woman's death? Did BK's parents' appearance before GJ relate to her case? Posts I read last night said --- rumor, but may have been confirmed or refuted since then.

 

[ilovewings]

Sleuths told family of missing woman that Bryan Kohberger lived nearby

The family of a missing Pennsylvania woman called the cops after they were alerted by internet sleuths that Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger lived in the area.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am posting this but I have a problem when the police go after someone based on someone "sleuthing' and accusing someone of murder---- this is what you get on social media. Everybody thinks they are a detective. My best guess is that BK did not commit this particular crime. Some of the "sleuths" have accused people of crimes and ruined lives in the process

 

[Balthazar]

SPECULATION

If Idaho and PA have shared info, could PA have already had ample digital forensics from Kohberger’s phone? Could that have placed him near the sire where Dana went missing, at the time she went missing? Or maybe in her vicinity on other occasions? Or both?

Has there ever been a case like that? My brain is overloaded. I want to ask if he returned to the scene of that crime? Was her ID one of the mystery ID’s? Was she blonde?

Is there a thread for Dana?

IMO

Yes, there is a thread here and also a Facebook page her family set up. She had brown hair. JMO.

What happened to Dana Smithers? Woman whose death now linked to Bryan Kohberger

Dana Smithers was last seen alive in May 2022. Her remains were found in a wooded area last month. Now, Bryan Kohberger’s parents are testifying in an investigation into her death. Rachel Sharp reports

www.independent.co.uk