4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[jepop]

I agree. IMO, unless he had a bag waiting outside of the car, stripped and hosed himself off before getting into the car…leaving at a high rate of speed. Stopping myself because this scenario does not seem plausible! He’d have to bag the clothes and put them in the car/trunk, weapon…wouldn’t there have to be some DNA, due to the nature of the crime and it being so “messy”, in the car? No one is that good!

RBBM: Just wanted to point out that we actually don't know what the results of the forensic analysis on the car are or even if all tests have been completed. MOO

The relevant item in defense's Motion to Compel states exculpatory on "information and belief" and the State (as outlined in their response to the motion) are seeking clarification from defense re which actual reports are wanted.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest.
Motion to Compel and State's Response can be found here.
The state has handed over reports as they become available according to their response to the motion. MOO.

The item in Motion to Compel is very general. This evidence on "information and belief" could be from the car, from the PA house, from trash cans and receptacles. All these are placed together in the request. So we don't know where the defense thinks this evidence is located. In all these places, some of them, one of them? I think the hearing scheduled for June 27th will hopefully result in clarification for both sides. MOO

"All lab testing, including photographs and color diagrams
and bench notes including, but not limited to:
l. Copies of lab reports detailing the forensic evidence collection and
analysis of items recovered at Bryan Kohberger’s parents’ home,
trash cans and other receptacles, and Bryan Kohberger’s Hyundai
Elantra.
As of May 4, 2023, Counsel for Mr. Kohberger has not received the requested
materials, and based upon information and belief these reports contain
exculpatory information."

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Maps Other Than Google or Apple?

snipped for focus @10ofRods
One in (semi?) popular use comes to mind---Bing Maps.
{eta: Bing Maps }

Bing Maps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spit-balling on the topic, but what about this kind of parcel mapping, primarily thought of {edit: by me, anyway} re property taxes assessments, but showing streets, etc.

Latah County Parcel Assessment

Geographic information system - Wikipedia Also refers to other mapping.

BK could have used it? Not saying he would have used it.

Could LE find search queries? I got nuttin

There's one called BISclient.com IMO

 

[maconrich]

DBM just because

 

[Idaho transplant]

Idaho murder house victims' families will seek the death penalty for accused killer Bryan Kohberger after experts speculated his 'standing silent' during court hearing was to keep plea deal option open​

• The attorney for Goncalves' family said that their family support the death penalty in this case
• Bryan Kohberger, 28, is accused of murdering Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin on November 13, 2022

"Two of the Idaho quadruple murder victims' families will seek the death penalty for the college students' alleged killer, an attorney has said.

Bryan Kohberger, 28, is accused of murdering Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin on November 13, 2022. He stayed silent when asked to give a plea at a hearing last week.

Now, the attorney for Goncalves' family said that their family, as well as Mogen's family, support the death penalty in this case following the grizzly murders.

They are filing notices indicating their desire to seek capital punishment during the trial, reports NewsNation.

Shanon Gray, the Goncalves family’s attorney told NewsNation: 'We spoke with the prosecutor on the case, Mr. Thompson. He’s going to meet with all the families individually, and then make a decision based on that.

'So, the Goncalves family obviously supports the death penalty in this case.' "

Idaho victims' families will seek death penalty for accused Kohberger

He looks scared like he's gonna be arrested for ....... Car looks real clean, like all "wiped" down

View attachment 425129

Bryan Kohberger's First Indiana Traffic Stop, Cop Seems Suspicious, Video

Video has now surfaced of Bryan Kohberger's first traffic stop in Indiana, and the officer who pulled him over was asking a lot of questions about a "mass shooting."

www.tmz.com

The two traffic stops may have been unrelated to the murders but I wonder if they contributed to Kohberger cleaning his vehicle with bleach when he returned to PA because he felt the police were on to him. If they were innocent traffic stops, they may have done more harm than good.

 

[al66pine]

Enhanced Driver's License?

.... He'd have to have proof of identity to get his DL. By the time he had that, the plates are easier.

https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/docs/ID-requirements.pdf

I wonder if he got an enhanced DL, too?

snipped for focus @Sister Golden Hair
Enhanced DL = new to me, so I had to find out more.*

If BK got an enhanced DL, any thoughts about why?

To quickly, quietly slither across border into B.C. or Alberta (and at some point back into US) "just in case" the homicides instantly went FUBAR?
From Moscow to border is 180 - 190 miles, 3hr 40min., so a pretty far for routine shopping or advantageous currency exchange rates.

Other reasons people get enhanced DLs? Anyone?
_____________________________________
* Maybe everybody else knows this? Every time on WS, I learn something new.
"Enhanced licenses are issued to US citizens in Washington, Vermont, Michigan, Minnesota, and New York, and establish nationality in addition to driving privileges. An EDL is a WHTI compliant document, acceptable for re-entering the US via land and sea crossings from Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. A US passport, birth certificate, or another document proving citizenship is required to apply for this type of license...."

Driver's licenses in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Love Never Fails]

View attachment 424477
Only 34 minutes from his town to hers (in PA)....and I believe DeSales University is south of there.... MOO, IMO

I’m late here. Been following other cases. Can someone tell me how she died, or was killed? Thanks.

 

[al66pine]

dbm. a duplicate.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The only remaining pieces of evidence that would make sense for his defense to believe could be exculpatory, and they may not have gotten yet, would be all of the DNA results from all the items tested in his parent's home, trash cans and receptacles, and his car.

I think BK/his defense realize his only hope of potentially being exonerated is through picking apart the DNA results (a) on the knife sheath and attempting to demonstrate it wasn't 100% his, and (b) that were collected and shown to be someone else's at his parent's home and/or in his car.

Two ways he might try and circle back to that and attack the DNA evidence, IMO, are:

Parent's House / Trash -- He wants to compare all the DNA results and labs and techniques used for all samples collected, including those LE did not submit in discovery because they were from a family member or unknown person. He wants to look for irregularities or results that can't be explained or might not fit with LE's lines of evidence. For instance, "See, they've got it all wrong, they can't even say exclusively that's my DNA right on my own pillow, it's a mix and can only be narrowed down to "close family member"!" kind of thing, or "They used different labs and/or methods for the DNA tests in PA than in ID, and they're inconsistent."

Or

His Car -- He knows there was someone else's DNA in his car that LE should have found and said something about, and he believes they should not have been eliminated as a suspect, the old SODDI or TODDI defense. He could have had an accomplice or friend or acquaintance ride in his car, or he could have planted someone else's DNA on purpose to set up SODDI/TODDI as a fallback, in the house and/or in his car. And that's why he supposedly asked if anyone else had been arrested when he was arrested.

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I’m late here. Been following other cases. Can someone tell me how she died, or was killed? Thanks.

As far as the public knows, @Love Never Fails, her cause of death is unknown.

She disappeared after leaving a friend's house shortly before midnight after attending a street festival earlier in the evening last May 2022 in PA when BK was still living there.

BK supposedly has a solid alibi and PA LE has stated emphatically that BK is not a suspect in her disappearance / death, but his parents are testifying at a PA Grand Jury about something.

Her remains were found recently in some woods so many miles away. JMO

There is a thread for her case here: Found Deceased - PA - Dana Kristine Smithers, 45, Stroudsburg, 28 May 2022 *found in 2023

 

[schooling]

I see some speculation that maybe BK was just going for a ride to stalk again and in that moment decided to commit the murders. Or that he was intending to go elsewhere and detoured towards the house instead.

Going over the PCA again I see at 2:42am he's near his home and then at 2:47am he's heading away from it and turns the phone off. That's a pretty short window.

At risk of beating a dead horse...while the turning off of the cell phone itself isn't a bad thing on it's own or illegal. I think prosecutors will use it to demonstrate 'intent'. And create a narrative that this was planned and not in the spur of the moment. Or some sort of mishap where things got out of control. ESPECIALLY if they can show that BK went out on other nights towards the house and left the phone off.


MOO

 

[schooling]

While on the PCA....it's telling that Payne is careful to say "network is disabled" and the example he cites is "such as putting the phone in airplane mode" instead of something like turning the phone off. I think this is purposeful and bolsters the reports / speculation that BKs phone was still communicating to surrounding devices utilizing Bluetooth and/or Wifi.

Essentially, between the times the phone was not reporting to the network they still have forensic timestamped information identifying his phone in the surrounding area IMO.

I highly doubt whatever digital forensic course(s) he took discussed this fairly new area of network forensics. He likely thought that since he was not communicating with the cellular network he was good. And his phone GPS/Navigation/Maps still worked and was not traceable (which is true IF cellular is off). Hence bringing along his phone.

Not many cases out there citing usage of device to device handshakes as evidence. Which makes sense since BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) is still fairly new technology and mass adoption just hit in the last year or two. Before BLE, Bluetooth polling/pinging/searching was power hungry and typically had to be manually activated.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

As far as the public knows, @Love Never Fails, her cause of death is unknown.

She disappeared after leaving a friend's house shortly before midnight after attending a street festival earlier in the evening last May 2022 in PA when BK was still living there.

BK supposedly has a solid alibi and PA LE has stated emphatically that BK is not a suspect in her disappearance / death, but his parents are testifying at a Grand Jury about something related.

Her remains were found recently in some woods so many miles away. JMO

There is a thread for her case here: Found Deceased - PA - Dana Kristine Smithers, 45, Stroudsburg, 28 May 2022 *found in 2023

Bolded by me. We actually don't know what his parents are testifying to a GJ about. The only thing that's been told to MSM that hasn't been debunked yet is that his parents are testifying before a GJ (and that hasn't even been confirmed). It could be about any other case and/or something related to the ID case, if it's true.

The bit about BK being connected to DS was officially debunked and IMO, so was speculation that his parent's testimony to the GJ (if that's even true) has anything to do with DS.

MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

Maps Other Than Google or Apple?

snipped for focus @10ofRods
One in (semi?) popular use comes to mind---Bing Maps.
{eta: Bing Maps }

Bing Maps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spit-balling on the topic, but what about this kind of parcel mapping, primarily thought of {edit: by me, anyway} re property taxes assessments, but showing streets, etc.

Latah County Parcel Assessment

Geographic information system - Wikipedia Also refers to other mapping.

BK could have used it? Not saying he would have used it.

Could LE find search queries? I got nuttin.

Good addition. I'm almost terrified to type the word "bing" because I recently got (from an attachment sent by a student) a malware that hijacked my computer to Bing (couldn't change search engine) and then started showing me weird ads.

Bing collects ISP and IP data on its users, and cooperates with LE.

LE can easily find Google, Bing and some other search queries (Google's server keeps and mines all that data and is the most valuable for LE). But Bing is trying to do the same thing. There's an excellent podcast ("To Live and Die in LA") in which the latter half shows how Google maps helped catch a killer.

I don't think that parcel map would help someone find their way from Moscow to Pullman by going through Blaine and Clarkston/Lewiston. To me, it's an easy route to memorize, but I know lots of people who would need a map. I believe BK needed a map and perhaps actual directions, such as the ones Google provides. It would be really hard to pull those maps up on the fly, IMO. Of course, he could have used them to study the neighborhood. I have a hunch that he had gone to a party at the house (maybe multiple times) AND that he may have known/observed/stalked others in that same neighborhood, getting a feel for the place.

imo

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I see some speculation that maybe BK was just going for a ride to stalk again and in that moment decided to commit the murders. Or that he was intending to go elsewhere and detoured towards the house instead.

Going over the PCA again I see at 2:42am he's near his home and then at 2:47am he's heading away from it and turns the phone off. That's a pretty short window.

At risk of beating a dead horse...while the turning off of the cell phone itself isn't a bad thing on it's own or illegal. I think prosecutors will use it to demonstrate 'intent'. And create a narrative that this was planned and not in the spur of the moment. Or some sort of mishap where things got out of control. ESPECIALLY if they can show that BK went out on other nights towards the house and left the phone off.


MOO

I agree, plus all 4 of the indictment charges for the murders include the word "premeditated", so it doesn't seem like anything he did that night would have been "on the fly", IMO, JMO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Bolded by me. We actually don't know what his parents are testifying to a GJ about. The only thing that's been told to MSM that hasn't been debunked yet is that his parents are testifying before a GJ (and that hasn't even been confirmed). It could be about any other case and/or something related to the ID case, if it's true.

The bit about BK being connected to DS was officially debunked and IMO, so was speculation that his parent's testimony to the GJ (if that's even true) has anything to do with DS.

MOO.

Thanks for pointing that out, I edited my post to delete the word "related".

 

[Warwick7]

This is exactly how I feel. I have never said that BK is innocent, but I have said that I can't jump on the guilty train until I know and understand all the evidence because I personally don't believe what we have so far provides guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The MSM is out of control. Dateline was incredibly irresponsible in their linking BK to his colleague's break-in without any evidence and linking him to underwear-gate when there's no evidence he was even in the area at the time. News Nation was incredibly irresponsible in erroneously linking BK to Dana Smithers. The media has tried and convicted him and they will only publish stories that agree with that conclusion, IMO. All the more reason the gag order should remain.

MOO.

BBM
In my own opinion, what we see now, is only a fraction of what LE has close to the vest.
Time and time again we watch trial after trial where evidence is laid out (to the defendant's guilt) that no one knew about. And we'd get blown away in court, where we'd pick our chins up off the floor. We are now getting just fraction of what will be introduced at trial.

 

[TL4S]

While on the PCA....it's telling that Payne is careful to say "network is disabled" and the example he cites is "such as putting the phone in airplane mode" instead of something like turning the phone off. I think this is purposeful and bolsters the reports / speculation that BKs phone was still communicating to surrounding devices utilizing Bluetooth and/or Wifi.

Essentially, between the times the phone was not reporting to the network they still have forensic timestamped information identifying his phone in the surrounding area IMO.

I highly doubt whatever digital forensic course(s) he took discussed this fairly new area of network forensics. He likely thought that since he was not communicating with the cellular network he was good. And his phone GPS/Navigation/Maps still worked and was not traceable (which is true IF cellular is off). Hence bringing along his phone.

Not many cases out there citing usage of device to device handshakes as evidence. Which makes sense since BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) is still fairly new technology and mass adoption just hit in the last year or two. Before BLE, Bluetooth polling/pinging/searching was power hungry and typically had to be manually activated.

MOO

This is really helpful, thank you! It's a bit unnerving to me if he put his phone in airplane mode that night. Why not just turn it off or leave it at home? To me, it suggests he still had reason to use the phone during that time. For what reason? Jmo.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM
In my own opinion, what we see now, is only a fraction of what LE has close to the vest.
Time and time again we watch trial after trial where evidence is laid out (to the defendant's guilt) that no one knew about. And we'd get blown away in court, where we'd pick our chins up off the floor. We are now getting just fraction of what will be introduced at trial.

And no matter how many weird theories and speculations we had come up with before trial, there's always some weird twist (although collectively, this group has usually at least gotten close to most of the plot twists). We always wondered if Letecia Stauch's claim that she "searched for Gannon" was true (and pile after pile of evidence showed it was a lie - including her own voice as she confessed to her husband in all those phone calls, little by little, lie by lie). Murdaugh had a couple of plot twists, for me at least.

I have 5-6 different mental "bins" with a set of theories in each. And one bin for very low probability speculation (there are so many internet rumors about this case; sometimes some of them turn out to have a tiny bit of truth in them). The rumors are the hardest to keep straight, because they tend to branch into more and more urban legend territory.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree, plus all 4 of the indictment charges for the murders include the word "premeditated", so it doesn't seem like anything he did that night would have been "on the fly", IMO, JMO.

It is incumbent on the Prosecutor, imo, to go for first degree in this case, as there are suggestions it could be. The defense can try to claim that there was no intent, but to make the jury believe them, they will have counter the active arguments put forward by witnesses for the State.

I've seen it theorized here that he might have still been practicing his criminal doings, or that he came with an idea of something other than murder. If the Jury believes that Kohberger did indeed have a knife with him that Sunday, they aren't going to buy that he had zero intent. I don't know enough about ID law to know whether felony burglary would automatically instruct the jury on this point: if there's a felony murder rule (and I think there is, from discussions here early on), then it's first degree murder. I think that's why there's that fifth charge.

State needs to prove that BK came inside the house and then, with or without intent, if they prove he killed four people, it's going to be in the first degree (I think; imo; IANAL).

OTOH, the State may also be able to show further signs of intent. And I believe that's where the big pile of evidence is going to be heading. Juries are persuaded by all manner of things (individually and as a group), so it behooves the State to provide evidence of more than one. Prior encounters with any of the victims; attempts to "stalk" or "get to know" or "interact online" with a victim (even worse if more than one victim), etc. Prior trips to the house (seen at parties). Pretty long list of what they must be investigating.

I imagine widening circles, ripple effect.

IMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This is really helpful, thank you! It's a bit unnerving to me if he put his phone in airplane mode that night. Why not just turn it off or leave it at home? To me, it suggests he still had reason to use the phone during that time. For what reason? Jmo.

When I put my cellphone in airplane mode the GPS still works.

Maybe he kept the phone on for the GPS feature for driving directions and to see his location, and disabled cell service so his location couldn't be tracked by LE in the future.

I think OP have said this, and it would be common knowledge to be able to do this, and operate in "stealth mode", i.e., I can see where I'm going but no one else will know where I was if they go looking in the future. Jmo