4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

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So, I'm rereading the PCA and am rethinking things based on details I hadn't noticed the first time. One thing that struck me is that BK's phone was utilizing the cellular resources that provided to the King Rd. house on August 21, 2022, from 10:34 pm to 11:35 pm. Approx. 2 minutes later is when he was pulled over by LE for a traffic stop just a couple minutes away from the house. I'm sure this has been discussed and I missed it, but Aug. 21, 2022 was the night before the first day of school in Idaho. I know the cellular resources aren't definitive to an exact location, and he could have been doing anything, but that is awfully interesting to me. I was halfway joking yesterday about BK having been stalking the girls online before he even left PA, but maybe it's not so far-fetched. He possibly seemed to have already located them by the first day of school.
 
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Kohberger evidence impacts death penalty decision: Expert​

NewsNation
Liz Jassin, Brian Entin

May 27, 2023

"(NewsNation) — Prosecutors involved in the Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger case have less than two months to decide if they’re going to seek the death penalty.
Former homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy said Friday on “Elizabeth Vargas Reports” that the evidence against Kohberger is “overwhelmingly awful” and will factor into their decision.
“I think there’s gonna be a lot of pressure within the DA’s office to actually seek the death penalty,” Murphy said.
Idaho murder victim’s dad on death penalty
There are two key factors that prosecutors look for: overwhelming evidence and the “shocking nature” of the crime, according to Murphy.
[...]
"Kaylee Goncalves’ father told NewsNation he’s working with the government in Idaho to ensure that the university killings never happen again.
“You can’t just hunt our babies,” Steve Goncalves said during a Monday appearance on NewsNation’s “Banfield.” You can’t come to our state and hurt our people. It’s unacceptable.”
[...]"

Kohberger evidence impacts death penalty decision: Expert
 
No way was a plate ever identifiable, or like you said, he would have been arrested right away. I'm just not sure if the "with an unknown license plate" means that there was one unreadable plate (which I think was the case), unknown if there were any plates, or there were no plates.
Maybe he obscured the plates with soil or something.
 
Sorry for being a post hog today. :/

In re to the evidence and BARD, we have footage of a specific vehicle on location both immediately before and after the murders. That vehicle could belong to anyone who owns, borrows, or steals a white elantra. If no white elantra was reported stolen, that's a tentative check off. Now, that elantra didn't have a front plate, and if it didn't have a rear plate, or it was unknown if there was one, then that lack of plate info isn't helpful because anyone could remove the plates.

But, if that elantra did indeed have a rear plate, that narrows it down significantly when in a state that requires both plates. Being a college town, cars with only a rear plate is probably not uncommon, but that kind of situation would be highly indicative of a student, imo, because who would most likely be in a college town with out of state plates (a state that only requires a rear plate)? Process of elimination would come to play, I would imagine. Then when LE finds a match with WA plates on WSU campus, they look up and find out the WA plates were put on only 5 days after the murders, replacing PA plates, which only require rear. Boom. *ETA: @NCWatcher, thank you for correcting me on this. BK's PA plate was still on the car when LE spotted it.

Then you have cell phone data that parallels the car activity, at least before and after the murders, and conveniently turned off during the murders. You have cell phone data that put him close enough to "touch" one of the victim's wifi/bluetooth on previous occasion(s). The person who owns the elantra owns the phone. And the person who owns the elantra and phone also owns the DNA on a sheath discovered next to one of the bodies. And this is only the evidence we know.

*To make a long story short, I believe he left the rear plate on, which ultimately helped pinpoint him specifically. JMO. :)

ETA: The states in blue are the states that only require a rear plate.
No, not being post hoggy!!

That's such a useful overview of how a process of elimination could work in the case of the elantra. Connecting Sv1 with defendant's vehicle could certainly be done through a demonstratable chain of eliminating procedure. One piece of information which will help is footage of SV1 showing it sported a rear plate but not a front one. The PCA and LE statments certainly strongly suggest this. I just had a hiccup there for a minute because of the PCA language, but I believe like you that the State has evidence that SV1 had rear plate only. MOO

Much of my mind space recently has been taken up imagining how the state will make an un-hole-pokeable connection between SV1 and BK's vehicle. Obviously if victim dna is found on the brake pedal of the elantra or something similar then the job becomes easier. MOO

But I've been speculating various ways that the state could still make the connection regardless of other evidence and based only on elantra investigations and LE technique of elimination. Increasingly (especially today) I'm wondering if I've caught a big dose of MWT! Nonetheless, when I have some time I may bore some here senseless with my musings in greater detail.
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RE phone on or off
Just in regard to the morning of the crimes:
I'm assuming the worst from prosecution POV. I'm assuming he turned it off for those two hours. So whilst no doubt state will point out, within a circumstantial context, that leaving phone off is suspicious and possibly even indicative of premeditation, from what I understand it would be better still if phone had only been put into airplane mode. Because if I've understood others' recent posts on this topic correctly, AP mode means that defendant's phone could have 'touched' routers inside 1122, even if it just sat in his car whilst he was inside the house. And we know from the warrants one is there for a company that stores data from routers (Charter Inc). MOO

If I'm wrong about AP mode then all the better. I'm not generally a pessimist but Imoo it's a pretty common assumption amongst anyone these days that if you want to avoid being tracked you are better off turning your phone completely off than just switching to AP mode. I'm an ignoramus on this but without even understanding why, I would turn my phone off if I didn't want any risk of being tracked. So...'IDK, just turn the thing off if you must take it with you, otherwise some app or other might still be operating in the background'... that's my basic, ignorant, understanding . And IDK, without wanting to be rude I think that's a pretty common conception amongst everyday folks, even among those like me who do have some basic tech knowledge (MOO) ( but my brain does not like words like wifi and router and does not really understand how it works).

So, my reasoning is that regardless of the reasons why defendant took his phone with him on the night, and regardless of his level of knowledge re being tracked via phone, I don't believe he would risk having LE potentially pinpoint him to being on the actual street. Even if he didn't know about AP mode and touching wifi/bluetooth, I think he was risk averse enough to decide - just have it off for that time span. If he had an average person's knowldege of tracking and pings then I think he would turn it off. If he had a more than average knowledge (or even if he just thought he did) I think he would turn it off.MOO

This is where I think you may be onto something in regard to him thinking he could establish an 'alibi' of sorts - by switching off just as he was exiting Pullman and then switching on again where he did near Blaine. But if this was the case, clearly it didn't work out they way he thought it would. I can see/imagine how the idea may have germinated in his mind, but in retrospect, and from the perspective given by distance it actually looks pretty delusional - grandiose and unrealistic. MOO
 
Well said TL4S - ("there were certain things he was willing to risk, out of necessity, because his motivation to commit a crime was more powerful than his fear of getting caught" ). IMO this is precisely the reason why some basic mistakes were made.

The other factor which occurs to me is that, IMO the perpetrator likely didn't care as much about the possibility of being caught as most murderers would. The big move to Washington hadn't worked out.
He'd lost (or was aware that he was likely to have lost) the TA-ship. This would result in his hopes of earning a PhD likely being dashed. All a quite humiliating situation. Sounds like it had been a financial struggle as well.

IMO he wanted infamy, and woud have liked to commit the perfect "big multi-murder" (thanks SLouTH for your phrase) but there were no easy solutions to some problems,such as how to get to the scene without using one's own car.

katydid23 said:
If he borrowed a car, that leaves a witness.
If he steals a car, he could get pulled over at any time, possibly with a bloody weapon and bloody clothing still in the car.
If he rents a car, he has to use his ID and Ins, etc.
If he Ubers, same problems exist.


IMO he couldn't hold back his compulsion, and was aware he would make some mistakes as he didn't have solutions for some factors.

IMO his mindset may have been may have been that if mistakes resullted in him being caught, incarceration would in some ways make life easier - notoriety, no $$$ hassles, no pesky students, or difficult supervising professors.

I love this post. It's exactly how we need to think about all of it, imo, because we can question a lot of what he did that day, but when it comes down to it, there were certain things he was willing to risk, out of necessity, because his motivation to commit a crime was more powerful than his fear of getting caught. JMO.
We can also question the scope of his understanding of digital trails (wifi, bluetooth, handshakes, surveillance, cell pings, etc.), but he had an educational background that at least gave him a better than average knowledge of these things, imo. I can't dismiss that.

When he left that early morning, he likely knew somewhere along the line he would be detected. Maybe he thought he'd outsmarted the system, though, because of his knowledge. Maybe that was part of the thrill for him, IDK. But that drive to commit a crime ended up overriding the whole process and he screwed up. JMO
 
What gets me is BK could have driven within a mile or 2 of the house and walked/hiked back. At that time of early morning and dressed all in black with a mask, he would have been much harder to identify on any cameras. We know he was athletic enough to do that with ease.

Not only did he drive there he circled 3 times and made a 3 point turn on the last pass to park behind the house. Obvious much? It makes me wonder what his real motivation was? Fame, Infamy, a dark game to be played? Fantasy? IDK

MOO

A lot of the points you've been making are causing me to rethink some aspects of this crime.

I think you are right that he was in some type of agitation, to have ignored so many basics of how to cover up a crime. If he was vaguely suicidal/self-hating at the time, and just lost it, I can see that. Something had to have pushed him over the edge that weekend. I do believe he had plans in mind, but I am now starting to see that his plan could have been improved so much and he likely knew that then, and knows it now.

For whatever reason, his compulsion kicked in. I do wonder if there was some perceived change in his "relationship" to 1122 King or to "one of the victims" (the one whose picture was reported to be on his phone):


I'm speculating that it's the same woman whose Instagram he slid into (his Insta profile, with his name and picture made at least two comments to something one housemate posted - three weeks before the murders and way before anyone known as BK was implicated).

Fame and infamy are likely motivations for him, but I do wonder exactly what he thought he was going to do in the house. My initial hunch (and I'm often wrong) was that he intended, all along, to kill "as many as possible." However, you and others here have made me look at it from every other angle - including the idea that he came for one person. And maybe he didn't plan to murder - maybe initially, he planned hot prowling - or something worse, but not murder. In that case, then something happened that triggered him (and I am guessing that other people in his life, like siblings and parents, have seen him "lose it" before, this didn't come from out of the blue, IMO).

All speculation - as we await more action from the courts. It's always great to read your views, @girlhasnoname
 
A Better Method of Transport to Crime Scene?
Yes, parking somewhere else and walking or riding a bicycle seem like a possibility. But then again, so many ring cams and CCTV all around. And you cannot easily spot them all. He still could have easily been spotted by neighbours cameras and tracked back to his car eventually.
@katydid23
Yes, drive car part way, extract bicycle from trunk, continue to scene. Commit crimes. Repeat in reverse.
As you said, BK could still have been recorded on Rings, other surv cams.

(Like Fotis Dulos? Did not work so well for him.
 
The Happy Face killer's daughter actually created and ran a show on A&E about this called "Monster in My Family." It's two seasons long, the first episode is about her but the other episodes feature Gacy's sister and niece, Richard Ramirez's relatives, etc. Off the top of my head, I know you can find some of the full episodes for free on Youtube.

The daughter of one of GSK's (Joe DeAngelo) victims has also written something (Lyman Smith's daughter) and also had a podcast for a while. I really want to watch that Happy Face part of that series - Jesperson's autobiography (basically spoken into a tape recorder and made into a book by a ghost writer) is chilling. He is so matter-of-fact about his descent into being a stone cold serial killer (and a family man).

imo
 
So, I'm rereading the PCA and am rethinking things based on details I hadn't noticed the first time. One thing that struck me is that BK's phone was utilizing the cellular resources that provided to the King Rd. house on August 21, 2022, from 10:34 pm to 11:35 pm. Approx. 2 minutes later is when he was pulled over by LE for a traffic stop just a couple minutes away from the house. I'm sure this has been discussed and I missed it, but Aug. 21, 2022 was the night before the first day of school in Idaho. I know the cellular resources aren't definitive to an exact location, and he could have been doing anything, but that is awfully interesting to me. I was halfway joking yesterday about BK having been stalking the girls online before he even left PA, but maybe it's not so far-fetched. He possibly seemed to have already located them by the first day of school.

If one had simply googled "prettiest girls in Moscow, ID" two of the victims' instagram pictures would have come up (I did this on the day I first heard about these murders - which is the same day that @ChatteringBirds started this topic - Nov. 14. Lots of stuff came up about KG in particular, but also about MM. Any variation of that search term "sorority with the prettiest girls," for example, also turned up Instagram pictures - and I'd say that KG and MM were among the top search results (along with much now-taken down social media about their sororities and about them personally).

Naturally, there were other girls in the search results. KG and MM still come up, in google image search, with those search terms (but now, there are other, current students in that group of responses). There are a lot of guys who idly search for such things, then go follow the women on Instagram, and the women oblige with lots of weekly posts of themselves in various cute outfits.

I also think it's possible that BK knew someone from WSU who had connections in that neighborhood. Or lived there.

It wasn't hard to find some WSU staff whose SM and other records show they live in Moscow, ID and who might have held a get together for grad students.

Just spitballing, but it's entirely possible BK came out to check out WSU at some point in Spring 2022; arrived in Pullman area either permanently or temporarily in June 2022; and attended hosted parties for grad students from both universities in Moscow and Pullman, in early August 2022 and probably thereafter as well. There are certainly WSU professors who live in Moscow rather than Pullman, according to publicly available records. I don't know Kohberger's full set of classes, but could probably figure it out.

Crime planning 101 is "be sure to go over jurisdictional lines; preferably state lines." In that way, processes of identification and eyewitnesses who see the perp frequently are minimized. Don't do stuff in your own backyard, basically (but as we've seen, multiple warrants in three states had to be filed, etc, etc).

IMO. Speculation only, while we wait for more information. There were so many ways that a potential killer could have researched, followed, found out about these young women/or that house at 1122 King.
 
Maybe that's when he finally noticed the neighbors had a camera. :) Just kidding...kind of.

In all seriousness, I felt like the skid marks didn't really match to him parking there due to the details from the camera (4:04/4:20) captures. That's totally guessing, though.
Agreed.
I speculated on and researched this a bit and one theory I came up with was they were left when the elantra attempted unsuccessfuly to turn around in front of 1122, before seemingly abandoning the attempt and heading west to perform the three pointer at the instersection of King and Queen (see PCA). As this was pass number three, I reasoned killer's potential frustration may have caused him to go heavy on brake and accelerator causing those marks. I don't think he parked in front of the house and if they are take off marks then I don't think they were left by the elantra. They could have been left by the door dash delivery person or by another resident of the street. LE probably compared them with residents' cars and those of the victims.MOO

In all events, I think photos etc of those skid marks were very likely put into evidence and seems they would have been compared with BK's tire tread by now, if not already eliminated/matched to unrelated vehicle. MOO
 
But if this was the case, clearly it didn't work out they way he thought it would. I can see/imagine how the idea may have germinated in his mind, but in retrospect, and from the perspective given by distance it actually looks pretty delusional - grandiose and unrealistic. MOO

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from following true crime, it’s that suspects/criminals are often given way more credit for basic common sense than they deserve.

And this isn’t even the first case I’ve seen where people have tried the argument of “these dumb mistakes mean the suspect didn’t do it”.

I know a lot has been made of BK’s criminal justice studies, but I’ve long since lost count of the crimes involving members of LE, wanna-be LE, security guards, etc.
 
IMO. Speculation only, while we wait for more information. There were so many ways that a potential killer could have researched, followed, found out about these young women/or that house at 1122 King.
Yeah, I feel like people often don't realize how much can be found out about them with the aid of their public posts through the years and some sheer determination. Sure, each post by themselves might be useless. But one post from 5 years ago might tell you the city where you live, one post from last month might show your street and it might be easy to find that street through google maps street view now, then one photo where your brother tagged you might have your house number on the background of that close-up of his bbq. Voila, here's your address. One might post about a roommates farewell party - well now we know you are alone in that part of the house. Googleing your e-mail, phone number, different combinations of your name, the names of your family members with bad privacy settings, your school and employer etc...

It is possible that internet stalking played only a minor role here, but I am sure he executed some of that. And while he probably thinks he covered his tracks in this department, I think he was too obsessed and there's proof of that stalking.
 
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If there’s one thing I’ve learned from following true crime, it’s that suspects/criminals are often given way more credit for basic common sense than they deserve.

And this isn’t even the first case I’ve seen where people have tried the argument of “these dumb mistakes mean the suspect didn’t do it”.

I know a lot has been made of BK’s criminal justice studies, but I’ve long since lost count of the crimes involving members of LE, wanna-be LE, security guards, etc.

BK seems interested in the psychology of the criminal mind. His first college degree is psychology. His Reddit Questionnaire is all about delving into the criminal mind and he studied the BTK killer which includes the psychological aspects of his homicides.

His interest in doing an internship with the Moscow PD was to help them with Data:

"To assist rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological
data in public safety operations."

Strange, because it is apparent that his mistakes involving technological data led to his arrest.

 
There is actually technology to track GPS on a turned-off cell phone. We used it to find military targets and the NSA uses it. It's called "The Find." I have no idea how it works or whether it must be used in real time or not. There are different theories in tech magazines about how it might work.

IMO. One theory is that unless the battery is removed (hard to do with modern smart phones), GPS may still be engaged with that phone. No clue, but if it's possible, I hope they are using that sort of data. When the phone was turned on, there will certainly be GPS locations to enhance the ATT data (and possibly other cell masts as well).

IMO.
 
So, I'm rereading the PCA and am rethinking things based on details I hadn't noticed the first time. One thing that struck me is that BK's phone was utilizing the cellular resources that provided to the King Rd. house on August 21, 2022, from 10:34 pm to 11:35 pm. Approx. 2 minutes later is when he was pulled over by LE for a traffic stop just a couple minutes away from the house. I'm sure this has been discussed and I missed it, but Aug. 21, 2022 was the night before the first day of school in Idaho. I know the cellular resources aren't definitive to an exact location, and he could have been doing anything, but that is awfully interesting to me. I was halfway joking yesterday about BK having been stalking the girls online before he even left PA, but maybe it's not so far-fetched. He possibly seemed to have already located them by the first day of school.
VERY INTERESTING!
 
True. Also remember he had to get a WA DL first and according to some internet sources, fees for those in WA are the highest in the nation. https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/state/washington/article273923140.html. We also don't know if he would have had to get new liability insurance that required an upfront payment. I can easily imagine a new grad student who moved across the country being squeezed on money. Also, his PA registration was not good until April as the post you responded to claimed. Per the PCA, it did expire Nov 30, 2022.
JMO
Yes. They look low enough, but then there's all the extra add-ons that aren't listed there, too. Same with tags. ETA: by add-ons, I mean specific county/city required fees for different funds, etc.
 
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BK having been stalking the girls online before he even left PA, but maybe it's not so far-fetched. He possibly seemed to have already located them by the first day of school.

Not silly at all. Warrants require probable cause and an affidavit stating what that is. If you check the warrants, some go back to 2021, so they had PC which is more than curiosity.

from an earlier post:

I broke the warrants out into two piles - Before BK and After BK. This is not all of the warrants, just the ones that are specific to BK and the victims.


After BK

11.25 earliest, 11.29 at 12:58 a.m. latest date of IDing him
Kaylee Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 11.29.22
Why would they look at her Tinder right after IDing BK, why not before?
Kaylee Reddit 1.1.2021.
Warrant dated 12.1.22, motion for extension 12.14
Maddie Tinder 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 12.6.22
BK Google 1.1.2021. Warrant dated 1.3.23
Kaylee Google 8.1.2022 Warrant dated 12.5.22.
Kaylee Yahoo 8.1.2022 Warrant 12.1.22
(Right after he moved to WA, and on page 16 of the PCA he used cell resources at King Road residence)
BK Tinder 6.1.2022. Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox and right after WSU sealed)
BK Yik Yak 6.1.2022 Warrant dated 1.25.23 (same date as DropBox and right after WSU sealed)
my best guess, and this is only a guess, is that they had a pretty darned good idea what they were getting from Dropbox. just a guess though.

Dropbox anonymous and warrant dated 1.25.2023
What Dropbox requires:
https://help.dropbox.com/transparency/reports
right off their website:
“Search warrants require a showing of probable cause, must meet specificity requirements regarding the location to be searched and the items to be seized, and must be reviewed and signed by a judge or magistrate. Search warrants may be issued by local, state, or federal governments, and may only be used in criminal cases. In response to valid search warrants, we may produce non-content and content information.”
Door Dash 1.1.2022 to present Warrant dated 12.6.22 - same date as anonymous Tinder
Tinder 19 or 20 redacted 11.3.2022 to present. Warrant dated 12.6.22
Then finding something
Tinder from March 1, 2021 to March 31, 2021 for 20 redacted accounts - warrant dated 12.22.2022
 
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