4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[10ofRods]

One reason for the possibility of someone's safety (possible life) being endangered is because the information being disclosed can lead to their identity.

It can be a total nightmare to have your identity disclosed in a notorious murder investigation.

Another reason is because there will be online conversations that BK had with others and they could be embarrassing to someone who says something personal to him. Could make someone look bad.

"Yah, I can @#$% girls any day"

All kinds of incriminating things people say online.

2 Cents

Or, amidst relevant details (convos/contact with BK), there's a lot of other, irrelevant, personal stuff.

We do not violate the rights of people in order to criminally prosecute someone.

IMO. To me, the main point has to be to establish longer term contact or interest in either 1122 King, one of the victims, or some nearby other party.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

What do you make of the reasons to seal #1 and #2? What on earth did they put on snapchat that is so shocking AND could endanger someone's life?

BBM

Walking a fine line here with ToS and our delicate sensibilities lol, but my guess is that:

1. this trial is going to be the D, T, & A Trial of the Century (so shocking)

2. someone (or someones?) who knows the answer to the shocking bit is the answer to the second bit because potentially they're not the only one who knows the answer to the shocking bit - they're just the one who said something.

ETA: Remember, we have a lot of missing pieces in those warrants, and that means some probable cause related to those parties.

As to specifics, beats me. And this is not meant to imply anything about anyone specifically, and certainly not meant to indirectly malign the victims at all. I just think that the shocking and endangered bits make more sense when linked, and if the court would just unseal the documents for me, I'd promise not to tell. Until that happens though, we get into a game of blindfolded darts (which admittedly, the blindfold never hinders me much because I suck so badly at the game, but that's a whine for another day). And this is all IMO, JMO and ICBW.

ETA: I think that it's important to reflect on all of the warrants and not disregard or dismiss inconvenient pieces in this case.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

On the more recent docs, the 2nd reason for sealing is that it might jeopardize someone's life. What on earth have they found?

That was in a number of earlier ones, too.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The reason for doing those stalking type activities is to show you have control over the woman's stuff and terrorize her a little.

RSBMFF

100%. That's not frat boy or even just prat boy. IMO it's exactly what you are saying. Frat boy pranks done for fun are generally based on some inside joke and they actually want to reveal their identity through that. That has only been my experience but the car thing was what you said.

 

[Cool Cats]

So...I think Kohberger himself knew all this and I think he figured that people close to the victims would be the obvious suspects (and they were under suspicion: KG's boyfriend; people at KG's boyfriend's nearby house; everyone at Sigma Chi but especially 1-2 people who knew XK and KG; MM's boyfriend; random women at two sororities...LE went everywhere looking for clues and information and the internet went wild with speculation).

BK could have known that KG had broken up with her longterm boyfriend, thereby making it a good time to strike. If he was following KG/MM on instagram, he'd have known about the new car and that KG was there that weekend (esp. if he was also watching the Grub Truck feed as a daily thing - iow, stalkerish behavior). He may have had more than one set of people on his list of possible victims. So he wants to commit mass murder (or thinks of himself as a budding serial killer) and he chooses someplace not near his own apartment; he chooses women who many people knew and regarded as beautiful and popular - so that there could be lots of reasons a semi-stranger or stranger would attack; he chooses a house that is a "fish bowl" (so that LE has to reckon with many possible scenarios). Etc.

All the search warrants make me think there's going to be more evidence of stalker-like behavior (which shows he couldn't adhere to his own script or theories). OTOH, what if he had invented other identities to try and hide his identity while following them on Tinder or SnapChat? He could have also used public computers at WSU (very hard to trace and figure out) for some of this, thinking he was really clever. What if there are accounts that ultimate trace back to the library at WSU? I hope the library has longterm storage of video from cameras anywhere there are public computers - but I bet they don't.

On the dark side: sometimes I wonder if he did have more surveillance of 1122 King Road (other trips than the ones known by the original geo-fence warrant - which was just one companies set of towers; looks like ATT shares towers with another carrier in Moscow - but there is likely more data from other towers and masts that has been gotten by now, not necessarily all via warrant or subpoena). Doesn't a burner phone of some kind seem likely? But if he had one, why didn't he leave his main phone at home? Too many slip-ups (hence the unpopularity of RTC for many criminologists).

IMO.

Super interesting because it gives some reasons WHY he could have chosen the victims he chose.

Your Quote:

So he wants to commit mass murder (or thinks of himself as a budding serial killer) and he chooses someplace not near his own apartment; he chooses women who many people knew and regarded as beautiful and popular - so that there could be lots of reasons a semi-stranger or stranger would attack; he chooses a house that is a "fish bowl" (so that LE has to reckon with many possible scenarios). Etc.

1.) Wants to pick women with no known connection to him
2.) In area far away from him - different State and different University
3.) Popular women who come up in ISU Google searches of most beautiful co-eds, thus, many people knew who they were
4.) House that has 6 people who bring over partners and friends, have parties and leave doors unlocked

Your Quote:

All the search warrants make me think there's going to be more evidence of stalker-like behavior (which shows he couldn't adhere to his own script or theories). OTOH, what if he had invented other identities to try and hide his identity while following them on Tinder or SnapChat?

Your Rational Choice Theory and Script Theory show a murderer who is planning ahead which means there will most likely be online evidence of his plans such as searches for information about the King Rd house, the neighborhood, the residents in the house, the womens' SM accounts including their families and friends, past high schools, past activities, and so on.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I wonder why there are not any Tapatalk warrants? And why not BK's reddit prior to June 1, 2022? Would these two examples from the article not be considered evidence in any way because it was not taking place in the time of question?

It's not evidence because it doesn't prove he did anything illegal. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Or, amidst relevant details (convos/contact with BK), there's a lot of other, irrelevant, personal stuff.

We do not violate the rights of people in order to criminally prosecute someone.

IMO. To me, the main point has to be to establish longer term contact or interest in either 1122 King, one of the victims, or some nearby other party.

Exactly.

And you just added one more to my list of why a Warrant needs to be redacted or sealed to protect people:

1.) Irrelevant, personal stuff.

2.) Negative remarks that could enrage others who read them (online conversations)

3.) A person's identity could be revealed

 

[Nila Aella]

On the more recent docs, the 2nd reason for sealing is that it might jeopardize someone's life. What on earth have they found?

I agree with @Sister Golden Hair.
There are other warrants that state the same reason of safety/danger listed: financial, ebay, yahoo, tiktok just to name a few. I believe this will turn out to have been a complex investigation that involves layers of information that will only be revealed at trial. JMO

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I agree with @Sister Golden Hair.
There are other warrants that state the same reason of safety/danger listed: financial, ebay, yahoo, tiktok just to name a few. I believe this will turn out to have been a complex investigation that involves layers of information that will only be revealed at trial. JMO

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

And because of the complex layers and risks with the eventual unveiling, it may have played into the decision to go to GJ instead of PH. JAG

 

[10ofRods]

In nearly all homicide investigations, LE has concerns about retaliation against witnesses etc. And there's no way of knowing - up front, in the middle and sometimes at all...during an investigation, who will end up being tied to the suspect and who else, known to the suspect, might be criminally minded.

IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Thanks again @Nila Aella. I've since seen that the sealed Google accounts warrants fall between BK's redacted one and this latest one so all post arrest. There's so many the mind boggles so can only really do justice to one at a time! It's interesting that most of the identifiers are redacted. I'm thinking multiple email addresses but whilst not sure what "recovery email" means exactly, could it mean their looking for deleted email accounts from earlier periods? And associated phone numbers he had prior to opening the WA AT&T account on June 23rd 2022 perhaps? The scope is the same as the late Jan warrant, beginning in 2021. MOO

Could what we're seeing in these latest warrants suggest that BK was using multiple identities? I mean, if he was indeed stalking people online, or in person, might he have used different names and email addresses to set up accounts so they did not appear to be coming from the same person, even via the records? Maybe so far as identity theft? It might explain redacted names to protect people, BK asking if anyone else was arrested, multiple phones and numbers, etc.

I know I'm out there with this idea, but back to my theory of him setting up an alibi for himself, maybe he also wanted to point the crime to someone else. He knew he'd likely be seen either by people or cameras leaving his housing area in Pullman, so he left with his known phone on. Once he left Pullman and turned off his phone, maybe he drove (thinking himself invisible at this point) to the east side of Moscow and turned around to head to King Rd., he then turned on a different phone, either a burner, which couldn't be identified, or a phone he'd activated using a stolen or fake identity. At the scene of the crime, on the night of the crime, LE would only have footage of a car heading west from the southeast corner of Moscow, and then at King Rd. with no identifiable plates, and a phone number that they couldn't identify, or would identify as the wrong person. Again, not giving too much credit to BK, but even if he wasn't smart, he thought he was, and with his interest in digital evidence tracking in crime, this seems like something he'd try to outsmart LE with. IDK.

Re deleted accounts:

IDK if BK had multiple usernames/accounts/phones, it's possible. I keep thinking how many other things he did which did not seem to be so smart for someone trying to "hide" discovery. Maybe he was stealthier with technology? I do believe that this is what LE is looking for though (after reading @schooling posts). MOO

@schooling posted a bit earlier today:

I pulled my earlier ATT post because it had a factual error in it.

But essentially, though LE will not be able to collect IMEI from these web app and services. They will be able to collect http header data and analytics provided to said apps and services by Google and Apple.

This data includes the operating system of the mobile device, the version it’s on, screen resolution and the web browser utilized. From that they can deduce make and model. There’s also a possibility that LE found the prepaid devices through information returned in previous warrants that contained the info above.

With modern “fingerprinting” methods utilizing software (cookies), hardware (GPU), behavioral (typing patterns) it really is difficult to move across sites with two different devices and not have them detected.

Maintaining different personas online in 2023 is close to impossible. Regardless of what your VPN seller tells you or the TOR Wikipedia article says.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I agree with @Sister Golden Hair.
There are other warrants that state the same reason of safety/danger listed: financial, ebay, yahoo, tiktok just to name a few. I believe this will turn out to have been a complex investigation that involves layers of information that will only be revealed at trial. JMO

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

And the thing is, it's not just a general sweep of all the warrants because this is a homicide. It's not simply generic reticence/conservative "better safe than" approach on the part of the court. It's specific to key information that we've both found (awesome job on this, Nila). IMO the reasons can't be dismissed because murder or boilerplate or random. If those were the reasons, then all of the orders would make this claim.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

COVID measures started spring 2020.

Yes, beginning in March and affecting Spring semesters in 2020 and for most institutions, all of 2020-2021 was impacted by COVID with many classes being online. BK finished his undergrad degree in 2020 and his master's in 2022.

 

[schooling]

Super interesting because it gives some reasons WHY he could have chosen the victims he chose.

Your Quote:

So he wants to commit mass murder (or thinks of himself as a budding serial killer) and he chooses someplace not near his own apartment; he chooses women who many people knew and regarded as beautiful and popular - so that there could be lots of reasons a semi-stranger or stranger would attack; he chooses a house that is a "fish bowl" (so that LE has to reckon with many possible scenarios). Etc.

1.) Wants to pick women with no known connection to him
2.) In area far away from him - different State and different University
3.) Popular women who come up in ISU Google searches of most beautiful co-eds, thus, many people knew who they were
4.) House that has 6 people who bring over partners and friends, have parties and leave doors unlocked

Your Quote:

All the search warrants make me think there's going to be more evidence of stalker-like behavior (which shows he couldn't adhere to his own script or theories). OTOH, what if he had invented other identities to try and hide his identity while following them on Tinder or SnapChat?

Your Rational Choice Theory and Script Theory show a murderer who is planning ahead which means there will most likely be online evidence of his plans such as searches for information about the King Rd house, the neighborhood, the residents in the house, the womens' SM accounts including their families and friends, past high schools, past activities, and so on.

The last bullet point in the latest Snap Inc warrant continues to stick out to me.

I think the SnapMap and Snapchat in general is going to end up playing a large role in this investigation.

A really really interesting thing happened between Snap warrant 1 and Snap warrant 2.

In March of this year, Snap Inc decided to deprecate a feature that a lot of people long associated with stalking dangers.

Here Goes News about that Feature Here

Fury over new Snapchat 'ghost trails' feature that 'exposes your location'

SNAPCHAT has launched a new location tracking feature – and users are not happy about it. Last week, Snap Inc. launched a new subscription plan for Snapchat that lets users access exclusive feature…

www.the-sun.com

Here Goes Articles Pointing to it's seemingly unannounced removal from the app in March of this year by Snap.

Did Snapchat Remove Ghost Trails? Why You Can't See The Feature Anymore

Here's what happened to Snapchat Ghost Trails.

screenrant.com

And the Snapchat help article

https://help.snapchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/13172639685652-Why-don-t-I-see-Ghost-Trails-on-the-Map-

While I'm not saying that Snapchat removed the feature because of this crime or that BK used it... The timing and the way they yanked it with no announcement at all is a little suspicious. PARTICULARLY because it was a paid feature and not even paying subscribers were notified. IMO they were reacting to something.

That, the very nature of the SnapMap, and the carefully worded last bullet point in the warrant tells me that LE thinks something is there that's worth digging into.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The last bullet point in the latest Snap Inc warrant continues to stick out to me.

I think the SnapMap and Snapchat in general is going to end up playing a large role in this investigation.

A really really interesting thing happened between Snap warrant 1 and Snap warrant 2.

In March of this year, Snap Inc decided to deprecate a feature that a lot of people long associated with stalking dangers.

Here Goes News about that Feature Here

Fury over new Snapchat 'ghost trails' feature that 'exposes your location'

SNAPCHAT has launched a new location tracking feature – and users are not happy about it. Last week, Snap Inc. launched a new subscription plan for Snapchat that lets users access exclusive feature…

www.the-sun.com

Here Goes Articles Pointing to it's seemingly unannounced removal from the app in March of this year by Snap.

Did Snapchat Remove Ghost Trails? Why You Can't See The Feature Anymore

Here's what happened to Snapchat Ghost Trails.

screenrant.com

And the Snapchat help article

https://help.snapchat.com/hc/en-us/articles/13172639685652-Why-don-t-I-see-Ghost-Trails-on-the-Map-

While I'm not saying that Snapchat removed the feature because of this crime or that BK used it... The timing and the way they yanked it with no announcement at all is a little suspicious. PARTICULARLY because it was a paid feature and not even paying subscribers were notified. IMO they were reacting to something.

That, the very nature of the SnapMap, and the carefully worded last bullet point in the warrant tells me that LE thinks something is there that's worth digging into.

MOO

Wow, thanks for pointing that out, @schooling !

I had heard about that, but didn't think to apply that knowledge here on this case.

Hmmm, such turmoil and churn BK stirred up literally everywhere, even apps now maybe changing their protocols.

Possibly.

Alleged killer.

Hopefully it will be all for the best, and one of the positives coming out of the awful tragedy of their murders, if it puts a crimp in stalking and saves lives in the future.

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

So...I think Kohberger himself knew all this and I think he figured that people close to the victims would be the obvious suspects (and they were under suspicion: KG's boyfriend; people at KG's boyfriend's nearby house; everyone at Sigma Chi but especially 1-2 people who knew XK and KG; MM's boyfriend; random women at two sororities...LE went everywhere looking for clues and information and the internet went wild with speculation).

BK could have known that KG had broken up with her longterm boyfriend, thereby making it a good time to strike. If he was following KG/MM on instagram, he'd have known about the new car and that KG was there that weekend (esp. if he was also watching the Grub Truck feed as a daily thing - iow, stalkerish behavior). He may have had more than one set of people on his list of possible victims. So he wants to commit mass murder (or thinks of himself as a budding serial killer) and he chooses someplace not near his own apartment; he chooses women who many people knew and regarded as beautiful and popular - so that there could be lots of reasons a semi-stranger or stranger would attack; he chooses a house that is a "fish bowl" (so that LE has to reckon with many possible scenarios). Etc.

All the search warrants make me think there's going to be more evidence of stalker-like behavior (which shows he couldn't adhere to his own script or theories). OTOH, what if he had invented other identities to try and hide his identity while following them on Tinder or SnapChat? He could have also used public computers at WSU (very hard to trace and figure out) for some of this, thinking he was really clever. What if there are accounts that ultimate trace back to the library at WSU? I hope the library has longterm storage of video from cameras anywhere there are public computers - but I bet they don't.

On the dark side: sometimes I wonder if he did have more surveillance of 1122 King Road (other trips than the ones known by the original geo-fence warrant - which was just one companies set of towers; looks like ATT shares towers with another carrier in Moscow - but there is likely more data from other towers and masts that has been gotten by now, not necessarily all via warrant or subpoena). Doesn't a burner phone of some kind seem likely? But if he had one, why didn't he leave his main phone at home? Too many slip-ups (hence the unpopularity of RTC for many criminologists).

IMO.

Good points, @10ofRods !

Speculating a few things on BK doing surveillance:

I wonder if he wore a bodycam during the times he was in the neighborhood stalking and/or during the murders

I wonder if he planted a video camera recording the back of their house 24/7 with an online feed, and that is how he knew what their habits were, and ultimately when it was safe to go in their house that night without getting caught red handed (when he knew they all were asleep or close to it) seeing as several of them got in from late night activities or were up well past midnight.

The only thing I'm not sure about with him possibly planting (installing) a video camera that recorded the house and occupants/visitors for stalking/voyeurism purposes, is whether it would be weather proof, as in okay in cold and snow, since it was (cold and snowy) that time of year, and how long the battery would last.

Then I remembered people I know who have "game cams" that come on when there is any movement nearby and record in the dark using that night vision technology, and are good in all kinds of weather, and only need battery charging every so often, every month or so I think, depending on outdoor temperature.

JMO

 

[di anna]

Could it be that KG knew she had a stalker online or had a red flag that alerted her? Maybe she always had someone with her and knew she was leaving the state
to work and so therefore didn't take it as seriously as she should have? maybe MM also noticed something off as well?

 

[10ofRods]

SnapChat/Map is a sure way to run into local people whom you might not know. On Game Days, many college students "follow" anyone and everyone that they think is on their side in the game (these people stay followed). College students love it. Think you saw the same guy in more than one place? You can send him a short message (which will disappear, is my understanding, after so many hours). Young women use it to get compliments and to meet others.

Good points, @10ofRods !

Speculating a few things on BK doing surveillance:

I wonder if he wore a bodycam during the times he was in the neighborhood stalking and/or during the murders

I wonder if he planted a video camera recording the back of their house 24/7 with an online feed, and that is how he knew what their habits were, and ultimately when it was safe to go in their house that night without getting caught red handed (when he knew they all were asleep or close to it) seeing as several of them got in from late night activities or were up well past midnight.

The only thing I'm not sure about with him possibly planting (installing) a video camera that recorded the house and occupants/visitors for stalking/voyeurism purposes, is whether it would be weather proof, as in okay in cold and snow, since it was (cold and snowy) that time of year, and how long the battery would last.

Then I remembered people I know who have "game cams" that come on when there is any movement nearby and record in the dark using that night vision technology, and are good in all kinds of weather, and only need battery charging every so often, every month or so I think, depending on outdoor temperature.

JMO

Yep, I’ve pondered everything from a hidden camera inside 1122 King Road (in a heating duct?) - which seems unlikely to…

Trail/game cams (easy peasy, just come back once in a while and have a look). However, they do make ones that utilize cellular data (Verizon and T-Mobile both have them, a little bulkier and I’d think any criminal would want to avoid them.

But if he knew their wifi password (some college students have a QR code prominently displayed so that visitors can access wifi during parties or get together), then it would be even easier.

Snapchat would be another way to get occasionally “hits” on the habits of where people might be in real time.

Lots of ways to snoop, I guess.

IMO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

So, does this language mean it could be for any one of these reasons, a combination of these reasons, or all of these reasons?

Yes! Forgive me. This case is so mysterious.

 

[al66pine]

....But if he knew their wifi password (some college students have a QR code prominently displayed so that visitors can access wifi during parties or get together) ...

Snipped for focus @10ofRods . Posting a QR code in apt. for party guests?

IDK if I should come out of my cave more frequently or if I should stay waaay back w my quill pen, ink well, & parchment.