4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[I'm Nobody]

KAYLEE JADE DAY June 8, 2023, her birthday
"do more of what you love"

Photo from KXLY

Goncalves' family says Kaylee Jade Day is where people are invited to do something with purpose that makes you happy.
Some examples include waking up early to watch the sunrise, going to lunch to a loved one, or trying a new hike.
The Goncalves family says while Kaylee is gone, her love isn't. They say together, let's prove love can never die.
The community is encouraged to use the hashtag #KayleeJadeDay and share the love on social media.

Community called on to celebrate Kaylee Jade Day in honor of Moscow Murders victim

COEUR D'ALENE, ID. — The family of U of I murder victim Kaylee Goncalves is calling on folks to do more of what they love on Kaylee's birthday, June 8.

www.kxly.com

 

[U.N. Known]

I still believe this will not go to trial. Once all the evidence is passed over to the defense and once the defense has the moment of reckoning.. .this will be over with an announcement that he either pleads guilty or goes with an Alford plea.

If lucky, the "deal" he will get will be spared the death sentence in exchange for no chance for parole.

I cannot wrap my head around why BK would plead guilty for LWOP (The Alford plea has been discussed ad nauseam, so I'll not include that in my comment). The only reason I can fathom that the Mr. Thompson and co. would offer LWOP as a "deal" is if they have concerns about getting a guilty verdict.

From the DA's perspective, offering BK deal would save the state a lot of money. This case has likely already cost ID a lot, more so because BK has a PD. They'd save further expense and time along with a closed case and closure for the families, if they made providing details of the crime and planning part of the deal.

BK OTOH, would guarantee himself a permanent spot in maximum security prison for what could be the next 60 years. He would have no chance for an appeal after pleading guilty (not a realistic one anyway), and he would probably have to expose a lot of information about how and why he committed the crime (so, he'd have to be guilty). If he isn't guilty, he couldn't meet a confession requirement.

IMO, if he's guilt, he's better off taking his chances with a jury. One, he could be found not guilty, Two, he could be given the harder sentence, but spend years with appeals or just die of natural causes before they called his number.

 

[Cool Cats]

KAYLEE JADE DAY June 8, 2023, her birthday
"do more of what you love"

Photo from KXLY

Goncalves' family says Kaylee Jade Day is where people are invited to do something with purpose that makes you happy.
Some examples include waking up early to watch the sunrise, going to lunch to a loved one, or trying a new hike.
The Goncalves family says while Kaylee is gone, her love isn't. They say together, let's prove love can never die.
The community is encouraged to use the hashtag #KayleeJadeDay and share the love on social media.

Community called on to celebrate Kaylee Jade Day in honor of Moscow Murders victim

COEUR D'ALENE, ID. — The family of U of I murder victim Kaylee Goncalves is calling on folks to do more of what they love on Kaylee's birthday, June 8.

www.kxly.com

KAYLEE JADE DAY
Reminds me of this - they were best friends:

Maddie May Day created to honor Madison Mogen's legacy​

On Thursday, people are encouraged to perform random acts of kindness.

Maddie May Day created to honor Madison Mogen's legacy

On Thursday, people are encouraged to perform random acts of kindness.

www.krem.com

 

[agreen36]

There are only two outcomes here IMO - a jury trial or a plea deal that spares him the death penalty. There would be absolutely no reason for him to plead guilty or Alford plea without a a deal. Even if he knows he is 99% likely going to be found guilty, you take the 1% chance that a juror likes you or the Prosector flubs something during the trial. Pleading guilty without a deal takes away that Hail Mary.

From what we know, I would imagine his defense team is going to encourage him to seek a deal. Just from the little we know the evidence seems pretty overwhelming. Given how locked down the police and prosecution have been I would imagine avoiding a trial would be very enticing to them. As well as some of the families. I can't imagine having to sit there and listen to the crimes explained.

That being said, working in law I've learned trials are more about knowing the rules than about the truth. You never know what loopholes the defense team might be able to find or evidence they can get thrown out. Nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Boxer]

I'm sorry, but that's frightening. I care about the innocent people wrapped up in this too, but a man's life is on the line and IMO, he deserves his Constitutional right to a PUBLIC trial. If he wants to plea because he's guilty, great. But what a public trial could mean for others shouldn't be the reason that judges and GJs make decisions.

MOO.

If ge wants a trial by jury he will have one. The constitution guarantees the right to face one's accuser in court, in this case the state of Idaho.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If ge wants a trial by jury he will have one. The constitution guarantees the right to face one's accuser in court, in this case the state of Idaho.

I know.

 

[Bogbacal2]

Thank you so much for educating me! Had no clue.

We use Apple TV box, which allows us to cut the cable but no camera and no microphone. I have all kinds of security on my computer. I have friends who tape their cameras, but it's not having pictures of my face out there that worries me - it's other information. We did have our ID stolen, but it was physically stolen by a neighbor who jumped the fence and turned off the electricity to our house to turn off our cameras. That's when we got the trail cams.

Even my computer at work has been infected by malware that sent things like browsing history and cookies to some randos out there on the web. Fortunately, security files are updated almost daily at work.

I did think a Smart TV was a great idea, and can deal with the camera part (with tape). It's the mic that bothers me. Esp. with our neighbors. Turns out there are very few without mics (so I'm reading instructions on how to muffle mic activity - apparently hard to get rid of the mic altogether).

I am guessing the young people of U of I are mostly lax about their phone and internet security, as are most of my students. For them, it's Freedom Time and they want to meet other people. I am now thinking that both the Grub Truck live stream and SnapChat/Maps were probably widely used.

Excuse my ignorance, my smart to has a camera on it? Good Lord. Going to check my manual now

 

[I'm Nobody]

KAYLEE JADE DAY
Reminds me of this - they were best friends:

Maddie May Day created to honor Madison Mogen's legacy​

On Thursday, people are encouraged to perform random acts of kindness.

Maddie May Day created to honor Madison Mogen's legacy

On Thursday, people are encouraged to perform random acts of kindness.

www.krem.com

We’re on the same page. I'm thinking maybe there was a little collaboration.

When birthdays roll around, absence feels magnified. What better way to cope with feelings of loss than a birthday to celebrate their life rather than all the public attention on their death. Unbelievable public attention.

Xana's birthday is coming up on July 5. Hope we have a duty/challenge on Xana's birthday also.
Maddie Mae Mogen May 25
Kaylee Jade Goncalves June 8
Xana Kernodle July 5
Ethan Chapin October 28

MOO. Happy Birthday Kaylee

edit something

 

[jepop]

Agree.

And all this is likely a moot point because the knife sheath DNA is only going to be one piece of the puzzle.

How does the defense create a story that questions every single piece of evidence (and I believe there will be a MOUNTAIN of evidence) that BK is the killer? The answer is: they can't and still have respect.

When you have the resources of the state of Idaho and the FBI and their evidence gathering/analyzing teams, they will find things you would never imagine.

IF BK did it.... then he certainly left a long trail. These people are really good at what they do. That's why you hear that when the Feds get involved in the case, rarely is there even a trial. They do that good of a job.

For example... did he google "Breaking News" for Moscow, ID... BEFORE noon on that following morning before it was publicly known there was a murder? And was that the ONLY time he googled that subject for Moscow? Did he do a search on his phone or laptop of that exact residence very close to the time of the homicides?

I still believe this will not go to trial. Once all the evidence is passed over to the defense and once the defense has the moment of reckoning.. .this will be over with an announcement that he either pleads guilty or goes with an Alford plea.

If lucky, the "deal" he will get will be spared the death sentence in exchange for no chance for parole.

Just my opinion based on experience.

I agree with you re the capabilities of State actors on this case..absolutely. My guess is that it will still proceed to trial though. Not sure why, just a sense that if/when defense fails to have case dismissed prior to trial (which is probably what the strategy is atm, Imoo)the defendant would prefer to take his chances...Just speculating and moo.

 

[jepop]

There are only two outcomes here IMO - a jury trial or a plea deal that spares him the death penalty. There would be absolutely no reason for him to plead guilty or Alford plea without a a deal. Even if he knows he is 99% likely going to be found guilty, you take the 1% chance that a juror likes you or the Prosector flubs something during the trial. Pleading guilty without a deal takes away that Hail Mary.

From what we know, I would imagine his defense team is going to encourage him to seek a deal. Just from the little we know the evidence seems pretty overwhelming. Given how locked down the police and prosecution have been I would imagine avoiding a trial would be very enticing to them. As well as some of the families. I can't imagine having to sit there and listen to the crimes explained.

That being said, working in law I've learned trials are more about knowing the rules than about the truth. You never know what loopholes the defense team might be able to find or evidence they can get thrown out. Nothing is guaranteed.

RBBM: Agree, I've learnt that the law and justice are not always the same thing. But often the law does deliver justice. Moo

 

[jepop]

We’re on the same page. I'm thinking maybe there was a little collaboration.

When birthdays roll around, absence feels magnified. What better way to cope with feelings of loss than a birthday to celebrate their life rather than all the public attention on their death. Unbelievable public attention.

Xana's birthday is coming up on July 5. Hope we have a duty/challenge on Xana's birthday also.
Maddie Mae Mogen May 25
Kaylee Jade Goncalves June 8
Xana Kernodle July 5
Ethan Chapin October 28

MOO. Happy Birthday Kaylee

edit something

ICBW but looks like Kaylee and Maddie were both star sign Geminis (the twins). That's poignant to me. They were by all accounts inseparable best friends.
Moo

 

[Nova]

MOO:

I agree, @Justice101, especially that there will be no public trial.

I foresee more grand juries and judges making decisions instead of a standard 'trial' jury, due to [ETA (#s)]: (1) the heinousness of the crimes, (2) the amount of (IMO) irrefutable evidence LE has that indicates BK is the one who killed them, and (3) the high profile nature of the case (that has in turn shone the spotlight on innocent people connected to the case who require protection of their identities to keep from harm, as stated in the reasons for sealed documents).

I'm not sure of the legal vehicles available to the prosecution and defense to have that 'moment of reckoning' -- can GJs be used for this, even though by law, the defendant and attorneys do not participate in GJ proceedings -- as in, could they make an exception in a case like this, and all sit down in a GJ or GJ-like setting together and hash things out?

....

IANAL and I'm certainly not an expert on the laws of all states and territories, but I have never heard of a grand jury being used instead of a "settlement conference". What would be the GJ's function in such a case?

I believe plea bargains are arranged in meetings between prosecutors and defense attorneys plus their clients. Of course, the ADAs may come armed with evidence uncovered via GJ testimony, but the grand jurors have done their jobs.

 

[jepop]

• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Alex Brizee in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Angenette Levy in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Chris Ingalls in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Erica Zucco in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Morgan Romero in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Sally Krutzig in Support of Motion
• 06/02/2023 Declaration of Taylor Mirfendereski in Support of Motion
• 06/05/2023 Notice of Hearing Defendants Motion Requesting Release of Grand Jury Materials
• 06/05/2023 Notice of Hearing Defendants Motion to Make Available Record of All Proceedings of Grand Jury

I started reading through all the stat decs of media reps. Idk...the motion hearing for Asst. Press will be interesting if nothing else. Moo.

Court schedule must be pretty tight at present. June 27th seems quite a long wait to hear defendant's motion requesting release of grand jury materials and to make available record of proceedings of the GJ..fully realising that protocol has to be followed.Moo

Thank you again for your tireless posting of the update from Idaho Court's page.

 

[jepop]

• 05/31/2023 States Response to Defendants Motions Regarding Grand Jury Record and Transcript

I think this is new as well. MOO

Thank you for update. So I'm seeing that the state is seeking a stipulation re protecting identies of those involved in GJ proceedings. And then must prepare the materials for release. So could explain why the June 27th court date to hear defense's motion. Moo

 

[Nila Aella]

I started reading through all the stat decs of media reps. Idk...the motion hearing for Asst. Press will be interesting if nothing else. Moo.

Court schedule must be pretty tight at present. June 27th seems quite a long wait to hear defendant's motion requesting release of grand jury materials and to make available record of proceedings of the GJ..fully realising that protocol has to be followed.Moo

Thank you again for your tireless posting of the update from Idaho Court's page.

I thought the declarations were interesting. I was surprised at some of the answers that were denied using the gag order as an excuse. The excuse for any question. And I learned who BF's lawyer was.
I agree about June 27th. I had the same thought with the the motion to compel. A long time to wait for a ten minute hearing that was requested at the beginning of May. Of course, new judge, and I think it might take longer than ten minutes, but still. MOO
.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050423%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

edit: spelling
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agree.

And all this is likely a moot point because the knife sheath DNA is only going to be one piece of the puzzle.

How does the defense create a story that questions every single piece of evidence (and I believe there will be a MOUNTAIN of evidence) that BK is the killer? The answer is: they can't and still have respect.

When you have the resources of the state of Idaho and the FBI and their evidence gathering/analyzing teams, they will find things you would never imagine.

IF BK did it.... then he certainly left a long trail. These people are really good at what they do. That's why you hear that when the Feds get involved in the case, rarely is there even a trial. They do that good of a job.

For example... did he google "Breaking News" for Moscow, ID... BEFORE noon on that following morning before it was publicly known there was a murder? And was that the ONLY time he googled that subject for Moscow? Did he do a search on his phone or laptop of that exact residence very close to the time of the homicides?

I still believe this will not go to trial. Once all the evidence is passed over to the defense and once the defense has the moment of reckoning.. .this will be over with an announcement that he either pleads guilty or goes with an Alford plea.

If lucky, the "deal" he will get will be spared the death sentence in exchange for no chance for parole.

Just my opinion based on experience.

Although I agree most guilty people would take a plea based on the evidence (majority of which we still don't know) I think BK will go to trial because this is part of his 'game'. He knows he's not likely to be executed in the State of ID anytime soon, and as far as being on Death Row, that's right up his loner, solitary attitude in life.

Plus, I believe the State is ready to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law, along with the families of the victims. I could be wrong, but I do see this going to trial with no chance at an Alford Plea.

All MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

Thank you for update. So I'm seeing that the state is seeking a stipulation re protecting identies of those involved in GJ proceedings. And then must prepare the materials for release. So could explain why the June 27th court date to hear defense's motion. Moo

Prosecution states in their response that they provided a stipulation on May 25th to the D (D is reviewing) and included a "proposed order" for the judge.

Two criminal rules the prosecution included in their proposed order:

Idaho Criminal rule 6.2 (c)

(c) Availability of Record of Grand Jury Proceedings. The district judge, by motion, must permit the following persons to listen to the record of the proceedings of the grand jury or to obtain a transcript of the proceedings
(1) a prosecuting attorney,
(2) a person charged in an indictment or the attorney for the person charged, or
(3) a person charged with perjury because of the person's testimony before the grand jury.

The district judge may place conditions on the use, dissemination or publication of the record of proceedings of the grand jury, and any violation of any condition by a party granted access to the record will constitute contempt of the order of the district judge.

I.C.R. 6.2. Transcript of Grand Jury Proceedings | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Idaho Criminal RUle 6.3 (c)

(c) Secrecy of Proceedings and Disclosure. Every member of the grand jury must keep secret whatever was said or done in the grand jury proceedings and the vote of each grand juror on a matter before them; but a grand juror may be required by the district judge to disclose matters occurring before the grand jury which may constitute grounds for dismissal of an indictment or grounds for a challenge to a juror or the array of jurors. No other person present in a grand jury proceeding may disclose to any other person what was said or done in the proceeding, except by order of any court for good cause shown.

In Prosecution proposed order:

d. In order to protect the identifies of the impaneled grand jurors, the disclosed record and transcript shall be redacted prior to being shared so as to remove any reference to grand jurors’ individual names.

e. Select portions of the grand jury record and transcript may also be shared with any witnesses who testified at the grand jury proceedings but for each witness, only that portion of the redacted version of the transcript that contains his or her own testimony.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051923%20Motion%20To%20Make%20Available%20the%20Record%20of%20All%20Proceedings%20of%20the%20Grand%20Jury%20Pursuant%20to%20ICR%2062.pdf

Defense Motion:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/053023%20States%20Response%20to%20Defendants%20Motions%20Regarding%20Grand%20Jury%20Record%20and%20Transcript.pdf

 

[U.N. Known]

Question for the group (I somehow just noticed that we can change the color of the text):

Do any of you support amending or lifting the gag order for the media? Initially, I did for the sake of my own curiosity and as a counter to the lunacy on social media. Then I read the recently released support of motion documents. I must say that I am underwhelmed by most of the reasons provided for lifting the order.

I don't live near Moscow, ID, so perhaps citizens there want to know the size of BK's jail cell or if he was granted the internship to feel safe, but I would be more on the side of this group of journalists if they were looking for the release of actual evidence that supports (or doesn't) BK as the offender. I want MSM to investigate and report, but what I read looks more like a desire for tittle-tattle than for true investigation for the public.

Thoughts?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IANAL and I'm certainly not an expert on the laws of all states and territories, but I have never heard of a grand jury being used instead of a "settlement conference". What would be the GJ's function in such a case?

I believe plea bargains are arranged in meetings between prosecutors and defense attorneys plus their clients. Of course, the ADAs may come armed with evidence uncovered via GJ testimony, but the grand jurors have done their jobs.

Good point, @Nova. Mine was a rhetorical question whether anything further on the case might be done in a GJ setting, but that would probably only be the case if additional charges were being pondered or brought, that a GJ would hear and decide on. There could be both pretrial conferences (PCs) focused on the trial, and mediation as the avenue for "settling" other matters which would be confidential like a GJ. JMO.

"Idaho Criminal Rule 18. Felony Pretrial Conference
(a) Conference on the Record. At any time prior to trial, the court, on motion of any party or on its own motion, may order one or more pretrial conferences to consider any matters that would promote a fair and expeditious trial. At the conclusion of the pretrial conference the court must make a written record of the matters decided.

(b) Informal Conference off the Record. The court may hold an informal settlement conference off the record. No admissions made by the defendant or the defendant's attorney at the settlement conference may be used against the defendant unless the admissions are written and signed by the defendant and the defendant's attorney or signed by the defendant if the defendant is self-represented."
I.C.R. 18. Pretrial Conference | Supreme Court

"Idaho Criminal Rule 18.1. Mediation in Criminal Cases
In any criminal proceeding, any party or the court may make a request for the parties to participate in mediation to resolve some or all of the issues presented in the case. Participation in mediation is voluntary and will take place only on agreement of the parties. Not all defendants in a multi-defendant case need join in the request or in the settlement conference or mediation. Decision-making authority remains with the parties and not the mediator.

Unless otherwise ordered, mediation must not stay any other proceeding.

(a) Definition of "Mediation”. Mediation under this rule is the process by which a neutral mediator assists the parties (defined as the prosecuting attorney on behalf of the State and the Defendant) in reaching a mutually acceptable agreement as to issues in the case. The issues may include sentencing options, restitution awards, admissibility of evidence and any other issues which will facilitate the resolution of the case.

(b) Matters Subject to Mediation. All misdemeanor and felony cases are subject to mediation if the court determines that it may be beneficial in resolving the case entirely. Issues that may be referred to mediation include, without limitation:
(1) the possibility of reduced charges,
(2) agreements about sentencing recommendations or possible Rule 11 agreements,
(3) the handling of restitution, and
(4) continuing relationship with any victim.

[ ... ]

(f) Confidentiality. Except as provided in Idaho Code § 16-1605, mediation proceedings must, in all respects, be confidential and not reported or recorded."
I.C.R. 18.1. Mediation in Criminal Cases | Supreme Court

 

[Odeto BJ]

Question for the group (I somehow just noticed that we can change the color of the text):

Do any of you support amending or lifting the gag order for the media? Initially, I did for the sake of my own curiosity and as a counter to the lunacy on social media. Then I read the recently released support of motion documents. I must say that I am underwhelmed by most of the reasons provided for lifting the order.

I don't live near Moscow, ID, so perhaps citizens there want to know the size of BK's jail cell or if he was granted the internship to feel safe, but I would be more on the side of this group of journalists if they were looking for the release of actual evidence that supports (or doesn't) BK as the offender. I want MSM to investigate and report, but what I read looks more like a desire for tittle-tattle than for true investigation for the public.

Thoughts?

Complex question, U.N. I read a selection of the Declarations and between the lines found frustration on the part of the journalists that officials and the lawyers were not willing to provide anything at all; even where a response would have no context or determinant of guilt. In other words: the Gag Order is being utilized by the respondents to excuse or avoid any and all contact with the journalists. While there are plenty of lines of inquiry that would not place a respondent in the position of defying the order, the persons being addressed are a) busy, as no doubt MPD and ISP are, pursuing evidence or b) reticent, in consideration of how much distortion the MSM has already succeeded in broadcasting. MOO that most addressees would be fully familiar with the progression process of questioning, that is the answer to one question leads to the next question so eventually the exchange would be intruding on the constraints of the gag order.
So, the media starts fishing around for something, anything to generate ink: Resulting in the fluff, tittle tattle, semi-substantive, and outright wrong reporting we have been subjected to near past. Also to some extent, the plethora of talking heads.
MOO the only resolution needs to come from the court in the form of press releases, so LE and the various counsels and known participants can go on about their business and the media parties can be relieved of some of the investigatory competitiveness...There is no precedent for that and no judge is going to advocate for it, but the courts are already involved in redacting documents that would normally be public information. In short: courts need a highly qualified public information officer and a channel by which the trial judge blesses the content of any release.

MOO JMO and offered with respect.