4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

As I was typing this, I remembered something else. Upcoming speculation: Remember when that rumor went around that BF saw a naked man flee the house? What if BK undressed AFTER DM saw him? He could have gone to the house wearing nothing BUT coveralls, shoes, gloves and the mask. You could strip that off pretty quickly outside, jump into the car wearing underwear or nothing, and take off. I could totally see BK's attorneys claiming that meant there was someone else there, when it was really just a naked BK. MOOooo

If the perpetrator is very forensically aware, why wouldn't they have covered up and then strip down before entering their own vehicle? That wouldn't take long and certainly would explain sightings of any naked man. However, one would assume he'd do it outside of the house and also one would assume rather than looking like a naked person running somewhere, they'd look like a person quickly undressing then running and carrying a kit bag. He could have stashed himself a changing kit with a bag to seal the dirty clothes and shoes into, cleaning wipes, and a fresh outfit outside of the house but before his car. Or he could have simply peeled off some form of fairly water tight outfit.

 

[Sundog]

That's true for all that we know about. E's parents have not made their preferences known. But as discussed before when both M and K's families chose to announce their preference for the DP, the families don't "vote" for what will be done.
JMO

Agree, the prosecution is consulting with the families and will take into consideration their points of view, but in the end the prosecution will make the decision based on legal issues - as to whether or not this will be tried as a death-eligible case.

From what we have learned from the media, the families are split on their sentiments about the death penalty for BK if it would ever get to that stage in a trial and jury sentencing process, with the parents of Kaylee and Maddie in favor of the death penalty, the mother of Xana in favor of LWOP.

Not sure about Xana's father, and the parents of Ethan may choose to let the prosecution make that decision and leave it up to the justice system as to how they want to try this case, whether it be death-eligible or not.

 

[DizzyB]

Do I think that BK did this? Yeah. Do I think that good lawyering could get him off? Yeah.

 

[maskedwoman]

If the perpetrator is very forensically aware, why wouldn't they have covered up and then strip down before entering their own vehicle? That wouldn't take long and certainly would explain sightings of any naked man. However, one would assume he'd do it outside of the house and also one would assume rather than looking like a naked person running somewhere, they'd look like a person quickly undressing then running and carrying a kit bag. He could have stashed himself a changing kit with a bag to seal the dirty clothes and shoes into, cleaning wipes, and a fresh outfit outside of the house but before his car. Or he could have simply peeled off some form of fairly water tight outfit.

True, but it's also possible that some details of his plan changed when he ended up confronting and killing 4 people rather than 1 or 2 as he planned. If it changed his means of exit from the house, for example, he might have ended up stripping off in a different place. Just a thought.

 

[Nila Aella]

This car was seen by officers on November 18th, not early hours of November 13th. Moo

I read the objection as saying that when the officers discovered (glimpsed) the white sedan on camera it was the 18th. They had to collect the video before discovering it on camera. MOO

From the objection:

One area of the investigation had to do with white sedan seen on camera located at 1112 King Road first glimpsed by officers on November 18, 2022

 

[Nila Aella]

Is there any significance to the 18th specifically? 5 days after the murders. Disturbed by the events of 11/13, I know I didn't go over that way, driving around near the investigation seemed inappropriate on so many levels. This is a University Heights neighborhood adjacent to fraternities adjacent to UI. What business could BK have there, even entry to the arboretum for a run is easily accessed on Nez Perce or below. There are also plenty of more convenient places near his location.

I'm just saying a resident moving to Pullman attending WSU originally from Pennsylvania had no business in this area. I'm going to guess he was parking above and doing some investigating of the investigation himself. Ballsy, IMHO.

IMO the officers discovered the white sedan on camera at 1122 KIng Road after collecting the video of the immediate area.

From the Objection to protective order:

One area of the investigation had to do with white sedan seen on camera located at 1112 King Road first glimpsed by officers on November 18, 2022.

JWL goes on to say

By November 25, 2022, police believed the car to be white Elantra and asked law enforcement to be on the lookout for one. Precisely how the police came to believe the car was an Elantra is still unknown. A report from an analyst for the FBI dated March 21, 2023 shows the analyst heavily relying on video of car heading in the wrong direction and at the wrong time on Ridge Rd.

IMO he is saying that the Ridge Road camera capture was heavily used by an fbi analyst to determine it was an elantra...that report is dated 3/21/23. A defense motion to compel requests more information on how they determined the car to be an elantra. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323%20Objection%20to%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

2nd: Motion to compel:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061523%20Defendants%20Second%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

According to the PCA, his phone did not connect to any cell towers in Moscow after 11/14/22. And it also says that on the 14th it connected to a tower but was not in Moscow.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf

 

[Nila Aella]

I wish I could assume that having the results of the Amazon warrant withheld means that they have proof BK bought the knife there. Unfortunately, things have been all over the place - LE has this, LE doesn't have it, LE found this, LE found nothing, that I'm beginning to feel like I'm trying to follow a game of 4D chess. My brain is smoking ya'll, LOL.

I went down another rabbit hole this morning: I found very interesting that AT said they didn't find the victims DNA anywhere, but did not say that they found no evidence at all. This would have been a perfect time to point out every shortcoming in the state's case. But she stopped at DNA. Time will tell on that. But I feel Mr. Taylor would be in an abrupt career decline (like terminal velocity abrupt) if they have charged BK with so little evidence that the case is truly not winnable. Or that they went the GJ route because the case was so weak they felt the judge would throw it out.

As I was typing this, I remembered something else. Upcoming speculation: Remember when that rumor went around that BF saw a naked man flee the house? What if BK undressed AFTER DM saw him? He could have gone to the house wearing nothing BUT coveralls, shoes, gloves and the mask. You could strip that off pretty quickly outside, jump into the car wearing underwear or nothing, and take off. I could totally see BK's attorneys claiming that meant there was someone else there, when it was really just a naked BK. MOOooo

IMO AT was focusing on the DNA evidence because that is what the third motion to compel is about. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Thank you, @al66pine.

I’d still like to respond. Not defending newsnationnow, never! Lol. However, imo, newsnationnow, most likely plans to keep this case in the news, as it’s a hot topic/case. There's a lot of ongoing activity with this case and I suspect they want to be first to report (also while staying on top of the case). Additionally, there is less than 30 days left before a decision must be made regarding the death penalty for suspect BK. But, then you already know all of this, others may not. May it's a reminder?

Moo - guessing and no factual info.

Curious if they count weekends in the required time for response to seek the death penalty? MOO

 

[schooling]

This is all MOO and JMO.

It has been widely reported that n the night of the murders, DM heard the male voice of a killer say 'It's okay, I'm here to help you'. It has always been so strange to me.

Because how would that even work?

Scenario 1 - If the killer is already killing you - why would he say that to you as he is killing you? There are a thousand more mean and horrible things he could say to you at that moment. He is trying to convince you that he will help you as he is killing you simultaneously. Does not really add up.

Scenario 2 - He is killing your loved one as you lay injured and he realizes that you are not dead yet (possible scenario with Ethan and Xana) and he is telling you he will help you - you will for sure not believe him and you will scream as hard as you can so you get help. I might be mistaken but I remember only crying being heard from Ethan and Xana and no blood-curling screams.

To cut a long story short - this comment always seemed off to me and I could not understand why would that be said at all. Now that we know there is DNA recovered of 3 males that were at the crime scene and not accounted for I have this nagging feeling that it might be in fact a comment that one killer said to the other - and in that context, it makes perfect sense.

It might be that one killer went upstairs and killed M and K and the other was with Ethan and Xana (where there was some fighting and resistance from what we know), the first killer comes down and sees a fight going on - says those words 'It's okay, I'm here to help you' to reassure him and helps the second killer complete the horrible deed.

This is all just a bit of my female intuition leading me through this case and of course MOO and JMO.

​

The PCA is the source of the reporting.

Your scenrio 2 is likely closest to what happened, IMO. The initial violent encounter was with Xana. Ethan comes out to defend her and she runs into the room. Her crying reveals to BK that she's still alive. IMO he says line to her to try to keep her from screaming.

Just take one look at the purported (and reported) Reddit survey.

Questions included:

• Did you struggle with or fight the victim?
• Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your home? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this point. How did you travel to and enter the location that the crime occurred?
• After arriving, what steps did you take prior to locating the victim or target (i.e., person or object)? Please detail your thoughts and feelings.
• Why did you choose that victim or target over others?
• Before making your move, how did you approach the victim or target? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling.
• What was the first move you made in order to accomplish your goal? Please detail any thoughts and feelings at this point. How did you accomplish your goal? Please explain what you were thinking and feeling.
• Before leaving, is there anything else you did? How did you leave the scene? After committing the crime, what were you thinking and feeling?

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's haunting Reddit crime survey

Bryan Kohberger is in custody awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania to Idaho. He was arrested in the Poconos in the early hours of Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"'It's okay, I'm here to help you'" sounds the exact kind of line that might come from the answers in that sort of research. IMO it was canned and he likely rehearsed it before hand and likely had more of them.

Also, that line sounds way too formal to be uttered to someone known to you or an accomplice (which there is 0 evidence of). I can't imagine repeating that line to anyone I know as I come to their aid or help them with a task.

A stranger? Sure.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

This is all MOO and JMO.

It has been widely reported that n the night of the murders, DM heard the male voice of a killer say 'It's okay, I'm here to help you'. It has always been so strange to me.

Because how would that even work?

Scenario 1 - If the killer is already killing you - why would he say that to you as he is killing you? There are a thousand more mean and horrible things he could say to you at that moment. He is trying to convince you that he will help you as he is killing you simultaneously. Does not really add up.

Scenario 2 - He is killing your loved one as you lay injured and he realizes that you are not dead yet (possible scenario with Ethan and Xana) and he is telling you he will help you - you will for sure not believe him and you will scream as hard as you can so you get help. I might be mistaken but I remember only crying being heard from Ethan and Xana and no blood-curling screams.

To cut a long story short - this comment always seemed off to me and I could not understand why would that be said at all. Now that we know there is DNA recovered of 3 males that were at the crime scene and not accounted for I have this nagging feeling that it might be in fact a comment that one killer said to the other - and in that context, it makes perfect sense.

It might be that one killer went upstairs and killed M and K and the other was with Ethan and Xana (where there was some fighting and resistance from what we know), the first killer comes down and sees a fight going on - says those words 'It's okay, I'm here to help you' to reassure him and helps the second killer complete the horrible deed.

This is all just a bit of my female intuition leading me through this case and of course MOO and JMO.

​

If BK's plan was to stab people in the lungs to prevent them screaming, perhaps that's what he did first with Xana then rapidly moved to Ethan who, had he awakened fully and gotten up, would have been the bigger threat.

Even with just one collapsed lung, a human isn't going to be making many loud noises, much less screams. That's the whole point of using a knife in this method - it's relatively silent. Each time the person tries to take in a breath to speak, there would be less and less air as the lung continued to fill with blood. I think being able to make some sounds would be possible for 2-3 minutes. Screaming, though, takes forceful intake of breath and then forceful output.

If Xana had already been stabbed 2-3 times and left to die while Ethan was murdered, then I could see the murderer saying something of that sort to her. However, he must have said it at least in a normal tone of voice or louder because it was heard 10m away, down the hall (I'm estimating the distance, I think we established it was 8-9 meters to Xana's door to DM's door.

IMO.

There was only one bloody footprint that we know of, so I'm still going with one bloody killer.

IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The PCA is the source of the reporting.

Your scenrio 2 is likely closest to what happened, IMO. The initial violent encounter was with Xana. Ethan comes out to defend her and she runs into the room. Her crying reveals to BK that she's still alive. IMO he says line to her to try to keep her from screaming.

Just take one look at the purported (and reported) Reddit survey.

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger's haunting Reddit crime survey

Bryan Kohberger is in custody awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania to Idaho. He was arrested in the Poconos in the early hours of Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"'It's okay, I'm here to help you'" sounds the exact kind of line that might come from the answers in that sort of research. IMO it was canned and he likely rehearsed it before hand and likely had more of them.

Also, that line sounds way too formal to be uttered to someone known to you or an accomplice (which there is 0 evidence of). I can't imagine repeating that line to anyone I know as I come to their aid or help them with a task.

A stranger? Sure.

MOO

Yes, rings so true. An accomplice would a) stay quiet and silent first and foremost and b) maybe at most say 'OK' or 'hey' or such.

 

[schooling]

That detail is really disturbing to me, too. When the PCA first came out, I remember the "help you," bit being discussed a lot, trying to figure if it was the killer, or EC who said it. Personally, I think it was the killer, and it is warped, whatever the scenario.

This is JMO, but I think BK is the killer and he acted alone. I'm concerned about the unknown DNA samples, but it's coming more from the worry that the defense could use it to instill reasonable doubt, rather than that there were actually multiple attackers that night. I think BK would give up other names if there were any. That's just where I'm at today, anyway.

But what was said, likely to X right before her death, proves just how demented the killer was, imo. It's terrifying.

IMO the defense was full prepared to position/present 1122 King Rd. as a party house filled with 100s of potential suspects....and the fact that there were only 3 unknown DNA samples in there is likely a major bummer. Regardless of how it's spun....

EVERYONE was expecting more. Just look at 'experts' on TV early on in this case and comments on Websleuths.

If I was a juror, the improbability of BKs DNA magically finding it's way onto the sheath, into the house, and on to the bed is only AMPLIFIED by my paragraph above.

If it was 15 unknown samples at a house reportedly notorious for partying this would be a very different case (if where to look at DNA in a vacuum and ignore the crap ton of other evidence).

 

[Cool Cats]

This is all MOO and JMO.

It has been widely reported that n the night of the murders, DM heard the male voice of a killer say 'It's okay, I'm here to help you'. It has always been so strange to me.

Because how would that even work?

Scenario 1 - If the killer is already killing you - why would he say that to you as he is killing you? There are a thousand more mean and horrible things he could say to you at that moment. He is trying to convince you that he will help you as he is killing you simultaneously. Does not really add up.

Scenario 2 - He is killing your loved one as you lay injured and he realizes that you are not dead yet (possible scenario with Ethan and Xana) and he is telling you he will help you - you will for sure not believe him and you will scream as hard as you can so you get help. I might be mistaken but I remember only crying being heard from Ethan and Xana and no blood-curling screams.

To cut a long story short - this comment always seemed off to me and I could not understand why would that be said at all. Now that we know there is DNA recovered of 3 males that were at the crime scene   and not accounted for I have this nagging feeling that it might be in fact a comment that one killer said to the other - and in that context, it makes perfect sense.

It might be that one killer went upstairs and killed M and K and the other was with Ethan and Xana (where there was some fighting and resistance from what we know), the first killer comes down and sees a fight going on - says those words 'It's okay, I'm here to help you' to reassure him and helps the second killer complete the horrible deed.

This is all just a bit of my female intuition leading me through this case and of course MOO and JMO.

​

Your Quote:
Now that we know there is DNA recovered of 3 males that were at the crime scene and not accounted for

This DNA does not show when the 3 males were at the house. They could have been there any time in the weeks before. Before the home became a crime scene.

It is possible that the DNA is from the male friend(s) that went over that day when the surviving roommates called their friends over before calling 911.

If LE saw them over there It is likely LE asked them for DNA but they didn't necessarily get it. No one has to give it under those circumstances. Strictly voluntary.

2 cents

 

[Cool Cats]

If the perpetrator is very forensically aware, why wouldn't they have covered up and then strip down before entering their own vehicle? That wouldn't take long and certainly would explain sightings of any naked man. However, one would assume he'd do it outside of the house and also one would assume rather than looking like a naked person running somewhere, they'd look like a person quickly undressing then running and carrying a kit bag. He could have stashed himself a changing kit with a bag to seal the dirty clothes and shoes into, cleaning wipes, and a fresh outfit outside of the house but before his car. Or he could have simply peeled off some form of fairly water tight outfit.

Naked man is misinformation. The article from the tabloid "The Mirror" said the naked man information came from the PCA and we know the PCA does not say this. 2 Cents

 

[Sundog]

Curious if they count weekends in the required time for response to seek the death penalty? MOO

I believe it's 60 calendar days, so weekends would be counted as part of the 60 days. I looked up the Idaho Code on death penalty and it said 60 days. So I assume that means 60 calendar days, regardless of weekends or holidays, otherwise that would be stipulated, IMO. Although I am not a lawyer.

That would bring us to 60 days after BK's arraignment when the Judge entered his plea for him on May 22. So that would be July 21, if the count starts on May 23 (and if I've counted correctly).

Perhaps others can weigh in if the above is not correct.

 

[Cool Cats]

‘Un-American’ or another police ‘tool’? DNA profile use in Idaho murder case forms division

Sun, June 25, 2023 at 6:00 AM EDT

‘Un-American’ or another police ‘tool’? DNA profile use in Idaho murder case forms division

“When there are no suspect leads, investigators are basically looking for a needle in an impossibly large haystack that they are trying to make more manageable,” a genetic genealogy expert said.

news.yahoo.com

An early battle in the trial of Bryan Kohberger is playing out over a key piece of evidence in the Idaho murder case, and its outcome could set court precedent for how the nation’s police investigate suspects of violent crime.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Naked man is misinformation. The article from the tabloid "The Mirror" said the naked man information came from the PCA and we know the PCA does not say this. 2 Cents

Thanks for this info!

 

[Nila Aella]

From the State's Motion for Protective Order

The genealogy conducted by the FBI resulted in lead that pointed law enforcement to Defendant, but it did not result in the creation of many documents or records. Much ofthe information relied on by the FBI was only viewed through the user portal in the publicly available genetic genealogy service(s) and other investigative databases. The FBI did not download or create copies of those records. Once Defendant was in custody, the FBI removed the SNP profile from the genetic genealogy service(s) pursuant to the United States Department ofJustice Interim Policy for Forensic Genetic Genealogical DNA Analysis and Searching (“DOJ Policy”).5 This means the FBI no longer has access to view much of the information it used to create the family tree and cannot view it again without resubmitting the SNP profile to the genetic genealogy service(s). To the State’s knowledge, the only records that reflect the FBl’s efforts to create Defendant’s family tree is the family tree itself, notesjotted down by FBI agents as they constructed the family tree, and any records created to document the removal of the SNP profile from the genetic genealogy service(s) pursuant to the DOJ Policy. The State has not seen—nor does the State possess—these records or copies of these records.
BBM

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061623%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the fbi have the ability to list a search history? Page by Page, spot on the page, Individual clicked, birth certificate, death certificates, web sites list etc. I thought they do this frequently with suspect computers?
JMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

XANAPALOOZA Wednesday July 5th 2023 Xana's Birthday

“Xana always made the most out of each moment.She took risks, and loved making those around her laugh! She never let a moment or memory pass her by, and she truly valued the gift of life. Honor Xana on July 5th, and do something spontaneous that makes you happy."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672635786703806466

 

[10ofRods]

From the State's Motion for Protective Order

The genealogy conducted by the FBI resulted in lead that pointed law enforcement to Defendant, but it did not result in the creation of many documents or records. Much ofthe information relied on by the FBI was only viewed through the user portal in the publicly available genetic genealogy service(s) and other investigative databases. The FBI did not download or create copies of those records. Once Defendant was in custody, the FBI removed the SNP profile from the genetic genealogy service(s) pursuant to the United States Department ofJustice Interim Policy for Forensic Genetic Genealogical DNA Analysis and Searching (“DOJ Policy”).5 This means the FBI no longer has access to view much of the information it used to create the family tree and cannot view it again without resubmitting the SNP profile to the genetic genealogy service(s). To the State’s knowledge, the only records that reflect the FBl’s efforts to create Defendant’s family tree is the family tree itself, notesjotted down by FBI agents as they constructed the family tree, and any records created to document the removal of the SNP profile from the genetic genealogy service(s) pursuant to the DOJ Policy. The State has not seen—nor does the State possess—these records or copies of these records.
BBM

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061623%20States%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the fbi have the ability to list a search history? Page by Page, spot on the page, Individual clicked, birth certificate, death certificates, web sites list etc. I thought they do this frequently with suspect computers?
JMO

Whatever the FBI has, it has. The point of the State's response is that the State does not have the FBI notes or records. The FBI doesn't give out its notes or records. The PD can ask a Federal Judge to subpoena those records (my bet is that no judge will do this). So no one has those records.

Results from a third party service doing genetic genealogy aren't going to be searchable by any regular search engine - only within the portal of that entity. Perhaps they do not allow saving/downloading the personal information of their thousands of clients.

It would be like using a digital phone book that the phone copy made read-only. Or something.

IMO.