4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

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IDK said:
I think this may be open to different interpretations?
I interpret this to mean that the sample tested was single source, not that it was the only DNA found on the sheath. IMO.
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Thank you.

I recall this finding distinctly and the single source DNA of a male was from under the snap of the sheath.

At no point has it been declared by any form of authority that there was no other DNA on the sheath. In fact it would be literally impossible for there to be no other DNA, most especially that of the victim whose body it was found underneath if that information is correct.
 
NextSprint said:
Correct, but they certainly wouldn't have been able to, for example, take the DNA of a driver of that car just because it's that type of car, or wiretap their home, intercept their mail etc.
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They would have been able to take discarded DNA material, yes. It wouldn't have been a smart use of resources if they did that for every Elantra owner, and I don't believe they did. Instead, they did things like recognizing this particular Elantra owner fit the physical description of their suspect, the Elantra fit the description of the car caught on surveillance (missing front license plate and all), BK was the sole driver during previous traffic stops, and used this information to get a historical cell site search warrant for his phone. Which showed his phone was traveling in tandem with the suspect white Elantra. They then put more resources into finding him and obtained discarded DNA to test against their base sample. Which was very much inclusive, not exclusive.

"Probable cause" is not "beyond a reasonable doubt". It's just a belief that a crime was probably committed and evidence is probably present. Police are not required to fully litigate a case before receiving a search warrant, nor is it feasible to expect them to. Plenty of people are subjected to search warrants in homicide investigations because police have reason to believe probable cause exists for them, and many of those people are cleared as a result of the searches. Unfortunately for BK, he was as far from cleared as can be.

JMO
 
10ofRods said:
Yes. It's in the PCA.

Single source.

That means only ONE profile.
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Under the snap was where the single source DNA of BK was located.

It has not been stated in any documentation that there was no other DNA on the sheath than this as far as I have read anything in all the time of following this case.
 
NextSprint said:
What I've seen suggested is that (paraphrasing) "IGG doesn't matter anyway because Elantra came first so they had him in their sights." <modsnip>
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Personally, that's not at all what I'm saying.

We're talking about an alleged change in the expert opinion moving from a Sentra to an Elantra. As a juror, why that changed would be important to me.

Changed because further evaluation of the video, more video available, investigators with more expertise reviewed it, etc., and they did not yet have a name from IGG--acceptable to me as a juror.

Changed because they got the IGG results and the name they settled on drove an Elantra, not a Sentra--I'm going to have a problem with that. I wouldn't know a Sentra from an Elantra in a grainy video and would have to have some other evidence like a license plate to believe that's actually an Elantra. I would also be pretty suspicious of other evidence being presented.
 
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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Thank you.

I recall this finding distinctly and the single source DNA of a male was from under the snap of the sheath.

At no point has it been declared by any form of authority that there was no other DNA on the sheath. In fact it would be literally impossible for there to be no other DNA, most especially that of the victim whose body it was found underneath if that information is correct.
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The victim's DNA whose body it was under would return as female DNA, and would not render the statement of single source male DNA untrue. If there was potentially exculpatory DNA present on the sheath, the defense would be filing every motion till kingdom come stating this and demanding the results. They have not. The silence is deafening.

JMO
 
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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Under the snap was where the single source DNA of BK was located.

It has not been stated in any documentation that there was no other DNA on the sheath than this as far as I have read anything in all the time of following this case.
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Correct. And again, there is surely non-human DNA involved if the sheath is leather.

Forensic anthropologists as well as archaeologists sample the "use point" of the tool first. Many reasons, including "most likely place to find DNA of the user."

And most tanned leather will reveal the DNA of the person(s) who processed/tanned the leather. It's actually a whole subfield of paleoanthropology (what we can now learn from leather from the past...)
 
 
NextSprint said:
Not enough to get a warrant though, otherwise every white male owner of an Elantra within 25 miles would have had their shoulder tapped.
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Although, it would be easy enough to start cross-referencing unaccounted for white Elantras with various databases. I assume that people were reporting such cars to Moscow and Pullman LE from the time the call went out that such a vehicle was of interest.

And, so there could have been quite a few "virtual" shoulder taps, as LE ran all those cars through their databases. I do wonder how many people at WSU may have reported Kohberger's Elantra - because they knew Kohberger and were concerned? This would not be mentioned in a PCA because it puts witnesses in danger and exposes investigative techniques,

I am a betting type of person, so I bet that a whole lot of white Elantra owners had, in fact, contacted police and provided information about their whereabouts, and indicated a willingness to under go a (voluntary) "shoulder tap." Can't have been fun, but a brave thing to do.

Little by little, a group of white Elantras remained unaccounted for by contact with LE. Narrower and narrower grew the immediate, local pool of those cars. And that's why I wonder how important Pullman LEO's were - they could have been getting tips about a white Elantra at Steptoe Apts AND about a certain errant criminology grad student who was in the process of undergoing disciplinary action, wherein his own professor (a criminal defense attorney) said there were "altercations." Hard to know if it all came together - and the DNA is basically just the icing on the figurative identification cake.

IMO.
 
NextSprint said:
Correct, but they certainly wouldn't have been able to, for example, take the DNA of a driver of that car just because it's that type of car, or wiretap their home, intercept their mail etc.
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Of course not. No one has implied or said that, that I know of. However, they could ask the driver to submit a voluntary sample (and many people would do it).

AFAIK, no one put a wire tap on anyone in this case, or intercepted any mail. It was a pretty straightforward arrest, IMO.
 
m00c0w said:
How many of those 2,000,000 Elantras were white, made between those years, belong to someone that fits the physical description of the suspect, and were in the area at the time? And then it turns out the owner also left their DNA at the crime scene on a knife sheath whose knife was used to commit the murder? They didn't arrest him because he had an Elantra. They arrested him because they have a bunch of evidence that shows he murdered four college students.

JMO
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Just for starters, if we use the years 2011-2018, it's about 1.2 million. I think. Idaho would have only a fraction of those, of which about 20-25% would be white. And so on.

I'm sure they focused on nearby Elantras more than faraway ones. And among them there was a guy having academic problems at WSU, with a strong interest in serial killers (two phones to the DeSales faculty would give them that). We can only imagine what various things they found out about each local (single plate) Elantra. My own profile of this killer was "older, former student or older, graduate student" who is having difficulty transitioning out of undergraduate life or never had the undergrad experience; likely hangs about the edges of Greek society, is probably relatively unnoticed at larger parties and marginal to smaller parties (not unlike the neighbor who had the chef's knives and admitted to crashing parties at 1122 Kings). I thought the person would be living in grad student and not dorm housing. Many reasons I thought this was true - but it's all basic...criminology, if you want to call it that. I emphasized that the killer would be feeling marginalized in some way (just as I would say about the recent gunman in NC).

IMO.
 
jepop said:
Not sure where this idea is coming from that there might be other unknown/unidentified dna on the knife sheath all of a sudden. ISL lab found and extracted a single source male dna sample from the snap button. We can assume the sheath was swabbed I think and that was the only unknowm/unidentified sample found. Ofcourse, victim's blood would be on the sheath, and hence their dna. But that's immaterial in context.Moo

Don't people think we would have heard through defense motions if other unidentified/unknown dna had been found on the sheath? Instead we are reading about two unknown samples found in the house (out of who knows how many painstakingly identified samples) and one from outside, all three of which didn't even qualify for CODIS.Why would defense waste time with those if investigators had been so incompetent as to ignore another/other unidentified dna sample/s from the sheath? The obvious answer is that investigators did not. Ofcourse people are free to speculate otherwise,but if so then Imo they are assuming a level of LE incompetence or conspiratorial cover-up that has no basis in fact or reality.Moo
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Random defense lawyer on YT said on the sheath. It's an error and YT not allowed.
 
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girlhasnoname said:
No, the IGG doesn't matter because they have an STR DNA match to BK in the odds of 5+ Octillion of it being anyone else other than BK found on the knife sheath underneath one of the 4 murdered victims.

IMO
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The fact that this still needs to be repeated tells you how much the defense has managed to muddy things up.

There's a direct line from CRIME SCENE -> LOCAL LAB -> BK'S CHEEK SWAB. The IGG is a side show and doesn't even factor into that DNA sample's chain of custody.

We want to change IGG rules? Make it more transparent? Make it more regulated? Great! LETS DO IT! But fact remains it's BKs DNA on a piece of the murder weapon.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Thank you.

I recall this finding distinctly and the single source DNA of a male was from under the snap of the sheath.

At no point has it been declared by any form of authority that there was no other DNA on the sheath. In fact it would be literally impossible for there to be no other DNA, most especially that of the victim whose body it was found underneath if that information is correct.
Click to expand...
If the unknown profiles were on the sheath. Why did the defense only choose to explicitly cite the glove as being a source of one sample? And said nothing about the location of the other two unknown sources?

IMO they did so because the glove is ominous. And the other 2 unknown DNA samples were found in locations or on objects that are not.

If there was unknown DNA (or known, from any of the survivors) on the sheath...we would hear about it. This defense team has shown us at every opportunity they are willing to publicize through filings anything that looks good for BK...we would have heard about it by now.

MOO of course. But I'd love for someone to explain why the glove was explicitly cited ( a glove that by all intents and purposes has not been officially connected to this case and only relevant in conspiracy theories) , and not the locations of the other sources. As they likely have access to all of that information.
 
One of those new documents today, "NOTICE OF INTENT NOT TO CROSS-EXAMINE DEFENSE WITNESSES, DISTRICT COURT DECISION, AND RECORDS TO EXPLAIN WITNESS CONTACT" (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/...of-Intent-Not-to-Cross-Exam-Def-Witnesses.pdf), the prosecutor is citing a similar ruling recently in another Idaho District Court (not as an appellate authority but I suppose to demonstrate to Judge Judge what other judges have been ruling).

The citation is a case where a defendant is similarly trying to challenge the legality of how IGG led to him becoming a suspect.

In that cited ruling, that judge ruled that the state won't be compelled to make discoverable "the databases themselves that the state doesn't even possess." Fair enough. It's clear in that case - as in this case - that the FBI are the ones possessing that information.

The judge also says "Still, Mr. Dalrymple and his attorneys have a right to know how it was that things were narrowed down to him because it may be that they can use that information to prepare a defense."

There's a bit of a problem here where the FBI is providing the evidence for prosecution but isn't a party to the prosecution, and then the state not having to to turn over important information because it's in the hands of the FBI. Is there not?
 
schooling said:
Edited because I don't have a MSM source to cite, in my description of the origins of the insane Qanon like conspiracy theories emanating from this case.

I can say though the fraternity conspiracy (cited below) emanated from the chans and spread to facebook groups and youtube. Once the PCA was released and the fraternity theory was was proven to be flat out WRONG the same groups moved onto another anonymous source and the latest "BK WAS FRAMED!" theory
www.independent.co.uk

The eerie online world of the Idaho murders case

Even now Bryan Kohberger is in police custody, the online rumour mill shows no signs of winding down
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Linking to more of the nonsense. The first few paragraphs should be of particular interest to anyone who's wondering where a lot of the leading seemingly innocuous questions come from
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Deep gratitude for the WaPo story, which I’d not seen.

While I’m sure it happens in many big cases, because I’m here, I’m all too aware of lives — and deaths — & businesses damaged & destroyed by the kind of rank online speculation not permitted on WS.

And Brent’s death was one. Thank you again.
 
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