4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

Not open for further replies.

We haven't heard much from Xana's family. Sad for her sister, Jazzmin.

This is infuriating. The rights of the criminal...in comparison to the rights of the victims.
I'm gobsmacked by Kohberger attempting to ban courtroom cameras and Delphi suspect Richard Allen attempting to allow them.

The two individuals seem so strikingly different. Kohberger strikes me as the type who'd love the attention and want every moment documented.

Richard Allen strikes me as one who knows the evidence against him is staggering and is legitimately wanting to minimize the details of his alleged crimes.
it’s probably lawyer decision and strategy here, not client
There is no evidence of cleaning otherwise the defense wouldn't have said that there is no explanation for the total lack of DNA. This is from their motion:

No matter what came first, the car or the genetic genealogy, the investigation has provided precious little.There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims.There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victimsin Mr.Kohberger’s apartment, office home, or vehicle.

This means they did not detect cleaning chemicals in his car that would have used to get rid of DNA. I think it also means that they didn't find any kind of protective clothing and other gears/tools in his possession/which he bought
that would have helped him not to transfer DNA onto his car.

There were many detailed, lenghty posts here on Websleuths for example from 10ofrods explaining that it would be impossible to not to find DNA evidence in his car no matter how hard he cleaned or what kind of protection he used. Many experts also had this same opinion, they were all expecting a treasure trove of evidence in his car.

I wish I were as confident as you are in the word choices and meaning of the Defense.

But I'm not. I've spent too long working around lawyers (and in labs) for me to think that.

"Cleaning" is an ordinary activity, is it not? Some people would claim that "cleaning" DNA is impossible (and it is difficult, in many circumstances - but not impossible). With time and effort, it's possible (esp with pre-planning).

The possibility that the defendant may have knowingly and knowledgeably erased evidence (I believe he didn't enter his apartment wearing bloody clothes, btw) is on the table. I won't mention the ways that blood and DNA evidence can be altered or rendered useless, but the process could be indistinguishable from ordinary detailing of a car. I am guessing most people would know what *not* to use in this process - but a person with a master's in criminal justice should know ALL the alternatives.

Finding upholstery cleaner in a car is normal. The Defense implies that (somehow) all methods of cleaning DNA from a car or apartment would be detectable, but I think that the State would have been heavily criticized if they had added "carpeting had been cleaned with X solution" to the PCA. However, I do expect an expert to testify that the car was very, very clean (showing signs of recent use of a vacuum and of other products). Can the forensics say WHEN this was done? Not that I know of. Can they say how many times it was done? Not in my opinion.

The Defense of course wants to spin this in their own direction. If I were the State, I'd wait until trial to give the evidence about all the "chemicals" found in the car. If it's quite a few different ones (again, I am not going to list viable ways of ridding various car components of heme/DNA evidence), that could make for a good couple of hours of testimony. In the end, an expert will likely testify that the car was thoroughly cleaned and list all the ways it was cleaned - thereby leaving the jury to guess what had been there before the cleaning. This is why we have juries and why juries are supposed to use their own standards of reasoning.

So I couldn't disagree more with your statement that "this means they did not detect chemicals in his car." Of course there were chemicals in his car (all kinds - including byproducts of the carpeting and upholstery itself). I would imagine that a good forensics team would have taken samples from those items. Are you saying that the car had NEVER once been cleaned? How would you know this? It would take expert testimony to walk a jury through the forensic processes used on the carpet, seats, steering wheel, etc. They could have found many different products - but without any way of putting a timestamp on it.

What I'd like to see, of course, is whether Kohberger's own DNA was distributed in the car in a manner consistent with ordinary use. THAT would make for interesting expert testimony.

But there's no way you can know what the lab found - unless you are an insider to this case.

Must be something no one knows about.

Pretty sure someone (like the Judge) knows something. :)

Bet the lawyers do too.

Since it has to do with the GJ, I imagine that there are many things that all parties agree should be kept from the public - for the time being. It's not a trial, yet.

The GJ almost certainly heard many difficult and graphic details about MoD and much else. The State shouldn't force the issue at this point, but if the GJ indictment is thrown out, well...there would surely be a Preliminary Hearing - and boy, do I wonder if that would be kept non-public.

Curiouser and curiouser.

For anyone who hasn't seen this video. Video is just over 5 minutes.

Families of Idaho student murders victims share new details to "48 Hours"​

A new "48 Hours" episode explores details of the night of Nov. 13, 2022, when four University of Idaho students were murdered in their home. "48 Hours" correspondent Peter Van Sant joins CBS News to preview the episode and discuss his conversations with the families of Kaylee Goncalves and Xana Kernodle, two of the four victims.
I would be in total shock if BK’s indictment gets dismissed; I can’t imagine the fallout. Surely, the prosecution has something more than the knife sheath.
The floodgates would be pushed open. How many hundreds of GJ indictments would be in question, quite suddenly?

How many verdicts over turned and suspects, even convicted ones, would walk free in the aftermath?
I would be in total shock if BK’s indictment gets dismissed; I can’t imagine the fallout. Surely, the prosecution has something more than the knife sheath.
The prosecution has tons. They had a massive budget for this and no expense was spared. They had multi agency support throughout and access to the best of the best of everything.

Probably overwhelming evidence, in fact which the defense are unlikely to have gone through thoroughly because they're spending far too much time on theatrics.

The state is strong on this case or i will eat a banana!

The more cases I follow and the older I get makes me take defense people with a large dose of salt.

It will be fine.

All is well.
I would be in total shock if BK’s indictment gets dismissed; I can’t imagine the fallout. Surely, the prosecution has something more than the knife sheath.
Why should it be dismissed? This is the pattern of defenses, to challenge every step of the way.

Whether the whole GJ indictment process is faulty is a matter for a different court.
I would be in total shock if BK’s indictment gets dismissed; I can’t imagine the fallout. Surely, the prosecution has something more than the knife sheath.
Oh, they surely do. I'm not worried. Absolute worst case scenario, if the GJ indictment is overturned, they can impanel another one or schedule a Preliminary Hearing.

BK isn't going anywhere.

I have a question for those who have more experience following all these motions and rulings. Do we think JJ will rule in the motion to dismiss because of "because of a biased jury, inadmissible evidence, lack of sufficient evidence and prosecutorial misconduct" before the second hearing later today? I was just wondering since, depending on his ruling, the second hearing wouldn't even be necessary.

As an aside - accusations of prosecutorial misconduct would have me pretty darned ticked off. Hats off to BT if he's able to take that in stride is just normal course of business. So, what happens when accusations of prosecutorial misconduct are made and the judge finds no such thing happened? Are there repercussions for the accuser?
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
Guests online
Total visitors

Forum statistics

Latest member