4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90

[katydid23]

The FBI's behavioral unit has been trying tro study and explain this kind of behavior for 40 years. But it's regularly done in the true crime community in a matter of seconds. "If I was BK I wouldn't have driven the car......" or "How could he be smart enough to cover the inside of his car but then drive to the scene with...."

Any approach with logic or reasoning is naturally flawed from the get go. I couldn't ever imagine myself approaching and turning the doorknob on a strangers home. Never mind doing what this person is accused of doing.

All MOO

Yes. Some are saying 'why would he walk into a crowded home only armed with a knife?'

I think back to Ted Bundy walking into a sorority house full of young women, and all he had was a fire log he picked up on his way in. He attacked 6 coeds, killing two, seriously injuring 2 more.

It made no rational sense for him to try that---but he had too strong of a compulsion to deny himself.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes. Some are saying 'why would he walk into a crowded home only armed with a knife?'

I think back to Ted Bundy walking into a sorority house full of young women, and all he had was a fire log he picked up on his way in. He attacked 6 coeds, killing two, seriously injuring 2 more.

It made no rational sense for him to try that---but he had too strong of a compulsion to deny himself.

JMO

Facts - Bundy attacked four at Chi Omega, killing two, then attacked another woman in a nearby apartment shortly after. I think you're getting confused by the number he attacked in Florida. If you include his last victim, Kimberly Leach, that makes six, but she was attacked at a different time to the victims of January 15th.

Ted Bundy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[10ofRods]

And the more they are studied, the more outliers are found. For sure there are useful commonalities that can & have been identified, but there have always been & always will be outliers, MOO.

Some monsters fit in cookie-cutter shapes, others don’t.

As always, MOO.

Yet, there are some things all murderers have in common.

The willingness or drive to kill another human being. Which most of us lack.

 

[Justice101]

Yet, there are some things all murderers have in common.

The willingness or drive to kill another human being. Which most of us lack.

Thank goodness for that!

 

[Valen2]

Or they legitimately don't know where he was at the time of the murders because he was "driving around."

My response was to a poster who stated that EVERYONE who isn't guilty of a crime has an alibi. I was on the road yesterday into this morning for the holiday. If someone asked where I was at 2:35 am, I'd have no earthly idea other than maybe the state. I guarantee some crime happened in that state. Does the fact that I can't tell you exactly where I was mean that I must not be innocent of the crime? This is teh logic that poster was arguing.

IMO, it's a ridiculous generalization.

None of this speaks to BK's guilt or innocence on my part. I'm speaking about the generalization.

MOO.

I would expect you to have been caught on multiple security camera videos. If you can tell them where you were, they can check it out and find proof that you were where you said you were. Cameras are everywhere now. Your car data can prove it as well along with your phone unless it was turned off, and probably even then. I got a new iPhone this weekend. When I set it up, it specifically gave me a notice that said the phone is still being tracked, even when it's off.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The FBI's behavioral unit has been trying tro study and explain this kind of behavior for 40 years. But it's regularly done in the true crime community in a matter of seconds. "If I was BK I wouldn't have driven the car......" or "How could he be smart enough to cover the inside of his car but then drive to the scene with...."

Any approach with logic or reasoning is naturally flawed from the get go. I couldn't ever imagine myself approaching and turning the doorknob on a strangers home. Never mind doing what this person is accused of doing.

All MOO

I wish I could spread this gospel far and wide. We don't know what the Idaho killer (who is, I think, BK) would do or not do, beyond committed mass murder. That already makes him outside my understanding.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes. Some are saying 'why would he walk into a crowded home only armed with a knife?'

I think back to Ted Bundy walking into a sorority house full of young women, and all he had was a fire log he picked up on his way in. He attacked 6 coeds, killing two, seriously injuring 2 more.

It made no rational sense for him to try that---but he had too strong of a compulsion to deny himself.

JMO

Also Richard Speck (back in the 60s) killing 8 student nurses in one apartment by stabbing and strangulation.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I would expect you to have been caught on multiple security camera videos. If you can tell them where you were, they can check it out and find proof that you were where you said you were. Cameras are everywhere now. Your car data can prove it as well along with your phone unless it was turned off, and probably even then. I got a new iPhone this weekend. When I set it up, it specifically gave me a notice that said the phone is still being tracked, even when it's off.

While I agree with you that cameras and other tracking devices such as phones are very common nowadays, there are still some gaps in very rural areas. Including federal land such as National Forest land.

I don't know how it is in Northern Idaho but I know that within 20 miles of my own location (in California no less!) I could be outside the range of cell towers, business security cameras, doorbell cameras, and even other traffic if I pick the right time of day (ie no dash cams). The only thing that would continue to function would be satellite driven devices such as gps. And in the tall forests I'm not even sure how well those would work.

Yes each town along his presumed route probably has a few gas station or other business cameras, but not necessarily enough to prove it's him as opposed to a similar vehicle.

I do think BK is the guy and I do think there will be some beyond-reasonable-doubt evidence that works against him. I just wanted to point out that those tracking-free pockets of land do still exist and Northern Idaho probably still has some.

MOO

 

[schooling]

While I agree with you that cameras and other tracking devices such as phones are very common nowadays, there are still some gaps in very rural areas. Including federal land such as National Forest land.

I don't know how it is in Northern Idaho but I know that within 20 miles of my own location (in California no less!) I could be outside the range of cell towers, business security cameras, doorbell cameras, and even other traffic if I pick the right time of day (ie no dash cams). The only thing that would continue to function would be satellite driven devices such as gps. And in the tall forests I'm not even sure how well those would work.

Yes each town along his presumed route probably has a few gas station or other business cameras, but not necessarily enough to prove it's him as opposed to a similar vehicle.

I do think BK is the guy and I do think there will be some beyond-reasonable-doubt evidence that works against him. I just wanted to point out that those tracking-free pockets of land do still exist and Northern Idaho probably still has some.

MOO

IMO the deadzones don't carry that much weight in this case. What happens at the edge of them matters a lot more. Both CCTV and cellular (including turning his phone off).

With what we know from the PCA it seems impossible for BK to leave or come back to his apartment without being captured on CCTV.

According to the PCA an Elantra was captured leaving the general area of his apartmentin Pullman headed down a straight (literally) road towards Moscow and immediately captured again on the other side of said road.

If BK is saying that's not his Elantra, the defense should theoretically be able to locate cameras or cellular evidence of BKs Elantra exiting the area of his Apartment independently of the Elantra in the PCA.

Same goes for the Elantra captured coming back into Pullman.

IMO if the defense had video of another white Elantra....BK would be sipping hot chocolate in PA right now with his parents.

MOO

 

[schooling]

I would expect you to have been caught on multiple security camera videos. If you can tell them where you were, they can check it out and find proof that you were where you said you were. Cameras are everywhere now. Your car data can prove it as well along with your phone unless it was turned off, and probably even then. I got a new iPhone this weekend. When I set it up, it specifically gave me a notice that said the phone is still being tracked, even when it's off.

A few threads back I pulled the VIN of his car (as reported by a major local media outlet which I cited) and showed that his car had no telematics installed. So LE more than likely has no location information from the car.

But I do agree with you on the cameras. If the defense challenges any of the prosecutions CCTV footage, I, as a juror, would want to see where his Elantra went. At least a second of footage of this alternative Elantra.

With the CCTV footage of an Elantra at the intersection near his apartment. And the CCTV footage of that same Elantra heading down and emerging from the road that leads into Moscow....and no other Elantra at the intersection near his apartment until one returns hours later......where's the room for anything other than what the prosecution has in the PCA?

 

[whiterhino]

IMO the deadzones don't carry that much weight in this case. What happens at the edge of them matters a lot more. Both CCTV and cellular (including turning his phone off).

With what we know from the PCA it seems impossible for BK to leave or come back to his apartment without being captured on CCTV.

According to the PCA an Elantra was captured leaving the general area of his apartmentin Pullman headed down a straight (literally) road towards Moscow and immediately captured again on the other side of said road.

If BK is saying that's not his Elantra, the defense should theoretically be able to locate cameras or cellular evidence of BKs Elantra exiting the area of his Apartment independently of the Elantra in the PCA.

Same goes for the Elantra captured coming back into Pullman.

IMO if the defense had video of another white Elantra....BK would be sipping hot chocolate in PA right now with his parents.

MOO

I was going to comment about this. There could potentially be data upon entering and exiting a certain "dead zone". If BK is guilty, I hope he never gets hot chocolate again in his life. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

While I agree with you that cameras and other tracking devices such as phones are very common nowadays, there are still some gaps in very rural areas. Including federal land such as National Forest land.

I don't know how it is in Northern Idaho but I know that within 20 miles of my own location (in California no less!) I could be outside the range of cell towers, business security cameras, doorbell cameras, and even other traffic if I pick the right time of day (ie no dash cams). The only thing that would continue to function would be satellite driven devices such as gps. And in the tall forests I'm not even sure how well those would work.

Yes each town along his presumed route probably has a few gas station or other business cameras, but not necessarily enough to prove it's him as opposed to a similar vehicle.

I do think BK is the guy and I do think there will be some beyond-reasonable-doubt evidence that works against him. I just wanted to point out that those tracking-free pockets of land do still exist and Northern Idaho probably still has some.

MOO

But BK can't use

those tracking-free pockets of land

as an alibi without admitting that he knew pretty much where he was. I believe he will stick to the vague story that he was "driving around."

Too risky to start saying he was at point A at 4:00am then drove west for 10 minutes and ended up at point B at 4:10am then drove on road C from 4:10 to 4:25am and so on.

If he ties himself down to specific areas there will be cameras somewhere that would have captured him driving. I do not believe he could drive for so long and miss every camera out there.

I believe that if he did not do it that the defense would have had a preliminary hearing pronto and would have produced photos of his car away from the crime scene. In other words, there would be 2 white cars. The car captured on King Rd around 4:00am and BK's car miles away.

2 Cents

 

[10ofRods]

I wish I could spread this gospel far and wide. We don't know what the Idaho killer (who is, I think, BK) would do or not do, beyond committed mass murder. That already makes him outside my understanding.

Plus, even within the national database of mass killings, kept by Northeastern University's Department of Criminology & Criminal Justice, BK is unusual.

Apparently, unlike Ted Bundy - whom BK knew a lot about - BK started out his career of crime with a mass murder. But like Ted Bundy, he targeted sorority girls (apparently). So he shares some things in common with Bundy - and with Elliot Rodger.

He also may share things in common with EARONS/GSK (DeAngelo), because of his interest in police work and criminology, with which he masked himself - plus, I do believe BK did some peeping and hot prowling. Indeed, if he studied the EARONS case, he would have learned a lot about how to avoid leaving DNA around. He might even have thought that wiping down the sheath with an alcohol or bleach wipe...might have been enough (that's why we always look in the crevices of things for DNA - just as LE took the boot from the seatbelt from the car, and the foot pedals). I am still amazed that the footprint was already latent just yards from where the victims lay dying on the second floor.

IMO. But here's the citation on the mass killing database:

Mass Killing Database

James Alan Fox, Lipman Family Professor of Criminology, Law, and Public Policy at Northeastern University, teamed up with USA TODAY and the Associated Press to launch the Mass Killings database – a public facing website that uses interactive graphics and visuals to break down data on incidences...

cssh.northeastern.edu

I find it instructive, though, to try and get a grasp on the mind of the murderer in this case, by thinking about and studying what we know of the others who are somewhat similar. One big difference between the Idaho murders and Bundy and DeAngelo's murders...is the sexual assault element. I find it plausible that using a knife in the commission of this crime has a sexual element to it, but I think the weapon choice is complex. I think the goal (probably conscious) was to terrorize, outrage, punish "society" (university life/American life/contemporary life) as much as possible. If things had gone the way BK wanted, he would then have climbed into the Catbird Seat and proffered his inwardly gloating, self-satisfied, arrogant opinions on Whodunnit. Which is now one thing he certainly can never do. I bet it rankles him at some level.

IMO, based upon the arrest of BK and the Court's decisions (so far) to move him toward trial.

 

[Boxer]

But BK can't use

as an alibi without admitting that he knew pretty much where he was. I believe he will stick to the vague story that he was "driving around."

Too risky to start saying he was at point A at 4:00am then drove west for 10 minutes and ended up at point B at 4:10am then drove on road C from 4:10 to 4:25am and so on.

If he ties himself down to specific areas there will be cameras somewhere that would have captured him driving. I do not believe he could drive for so long and miss every camera out there.

I believe that if he did not do it that the defense would have had a preliminary hearing pronto and would have produced photos of his car away from the crime scene. In other words, there would be 2 white cars. The car captured on King Rd around 4:00am and BK's car miles away.

2 Cents

Exactly, and this is why AT/BK is not hazarding a valid alibi by stating any specific place he was other than circling 1122.

 

[Cool Cats]

Exactly, and this is why AT/BK is not hazarding a valid alibi by stating any specific place he was other than circling 1122.

Speaking of 1122, I don't think the defense will admit that this is BK's car. I believe they will say it is just a car that looks like BK's car.

However, this opens up the "genie in the bottle."

1.) Then where did BK drive?
2.) What about other photos of the white car, are none of them his?

3.) Why isn't his car on any video from that night?

4.) If this is his white car at point A then how does it look different than the King Rd white car?

BK would never stand any chance on the stand.

2 Cents

 

[JRW]

I would expect you to have been caught on multiple security camera videos. If you can tell them where you were, they can check it out and find proof that you were where you said you were. Cameras are everywhere now. Your car data can prove it as well along with your phone unless it was turned off, and probably even then. I got a new iPhone this weekend. When I set it up, it specifically gave me a notice that said the phone is still being tracked, even when it's off.

I think this is only true depending on where you live. I had a guy walk thru my property running from the police a few weeks back.. we saw him on the camera, but 3 different neighbors houses who all have cameras couldn't pick up the car that drove over and picked him up... they caught him but came and watched everyones camera footage and couldn't catch the vehicle on camera.. the quality of cameras, the distance, how sensative the cameras are to what makes them start recording there are a ton of reasons that a camera may not record something... also i guarantee i could drive for miles near where i live and never be seen on camera in remote areas... also my car has no computer system to track locations and i keep my phone location off due to paranoia for several reasons.... All of these instances of being seen and able to be tracked are very possible in some areas but also just as not possible in other areas

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I think this is only true depending on where you live. I had a guy walk thru my property running from the police a few weeks back.. we saw him on the camera, but 3 different neighbors houses who all have cameras couldn't pick up the car that drove over and picked him up... they caught him but came and watched everyones camera footage and couldn't catch the vehicle on camera.. the quality of cameras, the distance, how sensative the cameras are to what makes them start recording there are a ton of reasons that a camera may not record something... also i guarantee i could drive for miles near where i live and never be seen on camera in remote areas... also my car has no computer system to track locations and i keep my phone location off due to paranoia for several reasons.... All of these instances of being seen and able to be tracked are very possible in some areas but also just as not possible in other areas

I keep "location services" off on my devices as well, but that won't stop it from pinging nearby towers.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed.

Please continue at Thread #91.