4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #92

[Justice101]

I agree, it would be remarkably dumb, but a lot of the things he's done (like with his phone) seem pretty dumb right now.

Agree, he did several DUMB things:
1) Left a knife sheath with touch DNA on it at the crime scene. Probably wiped it down and cleaned the sheath but forgot to clean the snap.
2) Drove his own car. Drove by the house up to 3 times. Did not change his license plate to Wash with plates front and back until AFTER several days after the crime. One license plate for PA is fairly rare in the West.
3) Took his phone with him on his scouting trips to the house, to and from the murder, to and from the house again the next morning with his phone one at times.

BUT... he also did several "SMART" things:
1) (Apparently) thoroughly cleaned his car of DNA evidence to the T. No blood. No DNA of the victims.
2) (Apparently) Successfully hid the murder clothes and weapon from LE.
3) (Apparently) Left the crime scene successfully to get home.
4) Wore a face mask, gloves and probably a disposable suit.

 

[Cool Cats]

as the comments in your cited article state, he could actually have sent in some one else's DNA... so his "self test" results might not be meaningful... we know that he went in other people's trash! ....or maybe if he did do a self-test (hearsay) he was in another frame of mind at another time.

He could have been planning the crime and thought it a good idea to submit someone else's DNA so if his DNA was found they would not get a match.

If he sent his own DNA in it probably was way before he planned his crimes.

 

[Boxer]

Thecgeolog pop

I don't think the request has anything to do with the fact that it is touch DNA. She wants to challenge his identification as a suspect through the use of genetic genealogy. She mentioned in the last court hearing that she has read through the material many times and is still at a loss as to how he came to be identified as a suspect. I listened to Paul Holes discuss the issue of genetic genealogy being used to narrow down the suspect pool recently. He said it's just a starting point. On the podcast Buried Bones, they discussed a case where they eventually identified the killer using genetic genealogy. It is a starting point. Once they have a relative identified, that is when the work begins to look at what relatives are in the areas, the right age, sex, etc. In that case, three brothers could have been the killer. One was in the Navy at the time, so he was eliminated. Then, they collected DNA from one brother, and he was eliminated. That left the last brother. Still, they did not arrest him because they wanted to collect and compare his DNA before making that step. He died by suicide before that could happen, but, when they did compare his DNA to the DNA at the crime scene, it was a perfect match.

My understanding is that there is no way she is going to be able to challenge the genetic genealogy identification, but she is working hard to do it.

I don't even think the genetic genealogy matters much at this point. The campus police at BK's school also investigated and found that he had a car registered that matched the description of the car they were looking for. That alone would cause him to be looked at closely.

AT "at a loss."
MOO Disingenuous.

Elantra found in Pullman.
Driver's license pull of Elantra owner = bushy eyebrows.

Concurrently, they were working on a genealogy tree for the DNA left at crime scene.

 

[schooling]

Agree, he did several DUMB things:
1) Left a knife sheath with touch DNA on it at the crime scene. Probably wiped it down and cleaned the sheath but forgot to clean the snap.
2) Drove his own car. Drove by the house up to 3 times. Did not change his license plate to Wash with plates front and back until AFTER several days after the crime. One license plate for PA is fairly rare in the West.
3) Took his phone with him on his scouting trips to the house, to and from the murder, to and from the house again the next morning with his phone one at times.

BUT... he also did several "SMART" things:
1) (Apparently) thoroughly cleaned his car of DNA evidence to the T. No blood. No DNA of the victims.
2) (Apparently) Successfully hid the murder clothes and weapon from LE.
3) (Apparently) Left the crime scene successfully to get home.
4) Wore a face mask, gloves and probably a disposable suit.

I think the contrast makes sense. If you find out that a really good lawyer went to Yale. You're like...OK...makes sense. So telling me that a PhD candidate in criminology left a crime scene with no victim DNA makes just as much sense. Kohlberger had all the resources to prepare. Access to information, and dedicated time to focus and study crime(s).

After all, this is the guy caught meticulously organizing trash at 2am while wearing gloves. DNA was top of mind.

Two things went wrong for him. Both related to variability. IMO.

1) Inside the House

IMO No matter how well he was dressed or what type of weapon he brought. He could have never fully prepared himself for the chaos and variability that waited for him inside of that house. So the sheath doesn't surprise me. And I see my theory that there was no way for him to not notice the sheath was missing and that he likely frantically went back upstairs to try and find the sheath before leaving the house being shared now by Youtubers (since my posting)

2) The cell phone towers, video cameras, reported wifi/bluetooth mistakes.

all of them have one thing in common. Technology. IMO I don't think that Kohlberger was oblivious to this stuff. I think the same way people are over calculating on his certificate, Kohlberger over calculated on his technical aptitude and proficiency. The technology has evolved so quickly (variability) that research and publishers just can't keep up. MANUFACTURERS don't really. consider privacy all too much. We are buying electronics filled with things we don't really understand. Much of it new and unexploited. And government agencies are keeping most of their techniques secret. Crimes like Kohlbergers were also committed before most of this technology was invented/commercialized/widespread.

MOO

 

[arielilane]

@WFLAJB

Watch the camera movement

As the Jennifer Crumbley verdict was read, our view is zoomed in on the defendant.

In Idaho with Bryan Kohberger, this wouldn’t be allowed. Instead it would be a wide view of the courtroom on Zoom. Which do you prefer? And why?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755264957317353740

 

[Justice101]

I think the contrast makes sense. If you find out that a really good lawyer went to Yale. You're like...OK...makes sense. So telling me that a PhD candidate in criminology left a crime scene with no victim DNA makes just as much sense. Kohlberger had all the resources to prepare. Access to information, and dedicated time to focus and study crime(s).

After all, this is the guy caught meticulously organizing trash at 2am while wearing gloves. DNA was top of mind.

Two things went wrong for him. Both related to variability. IMO.

1) Inside the House

IMO No matter how well he was dressed or what type of weapon he brought. He could have never fully prepared himself for the chaos and variability that waited for him inside of that house. So the sheath doesn't surprise me. And I see my theory that there was no way for him to not notice the sheath was missing and that he likely frantically went back upstairs to try and find the sheath before leaving the house being shared now by Youtubers (since my posting)

2) The cell phone towers, video cameras, reported wifi/bluetooth mistakes.

all of them have one thing in common. Technology. IMO I don't think that Kohlberger was oblivious to this stuff. I think the same way people are over calculating on his certificate, Kohlberger over calculated on his technical aptitude and proficiency. The technology has evolved so quickly (variability) that research and publishers just can't keep up. MANUFACTURERS don't really. consider privacy all too much. We are buying electronics filled with things we don't really understand. Much of it new and unexploited. And government agencies are keeping most of their techniques secret. Crimes like Kohlbergers were also committed before most of this technology was invented/commercialized/widespread.

MOO

Well said @schooling !

He could prepare for many things but no one can prepare for the unexpected: 2 girls in one bed was NOT expected.. which probably caused the 2nd unexpected thing to happen... losing the sheath while stabbing two. Another girl downstairs probably in the hallway. Etc.

As you know, in order to gather enough light at night, all video capture devices open the aperture widely just to get in enough light, but that is still not enough light and that causes everything everything filmed at night to look blurry. He probably was counting on LE not being able to identify his type of vehicle. (I can't tell because the pictures and video I have seen are very blurry). Also, since there are so few cell towers and everyone in the area driving between Pullman and Warsaw would have to use the same cell tower(s), he thought if he ever got caught they could argue everyone pings those cell towers besides him.

 

[arielilane]

dbm

 

[maskedwoman]

@WFLAJB

Watch the camera movement

As the Jennifer Crumbley verdict was read, our view is zoomed in on the defendant.

In Idaho with Bryan Kohberger, this wouldn’t be allowed. Instead it would be a wide view of the courtroom on Zoom. Which do you prefer? And why?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755264957317353740

All I care about is being able to watch and listen at all. I'm more concerned with how the trial is going than whether BK is smirking or looks scared. So much of those things are subjective, so I'm happy to get the wide courtroom view.

 

[maconrich]

By Katherine Ramsland, PhD

"News this past December that the University of Idaho would demolish an off-campus rental house where four students were murdered the year before shocked many."

"It’s difficult to find research that shows a clear benefit from razing stigmatized properties. There’s plenty on PTSD in the context of personal trauma or witnessing violence but nothing beyond opinion pieces about sustained awareness from visual reminders. The murder aura is grounded in perception, and visible reminders keep the perception more readily intact than does the absence of them. With no substantial proof of benefits for either position (raze or preserve), the affected community should have the final say."

Can a Murder Aura Be Erased?

Demolishing a building where violence happened helps communities heal, but some advocates for the preservation of such properties offer reasonable counter-arguments.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Chloegirl]

DBM

 

[Chloegirl]

By Katherine Ramsland, PhD

"News this past December that the University of Idaho would demolish an off-campus rental house where four students were murdered the year before shocked many."

"It’s difficult to find research that shows a clear benefit from razing stigmatized properties. There’s plenty on PTSD in the context of personal trauma or witnessing violence but nothing beyond opinion pieces about sustained awareness from visual reminders. The murder aura is grounded in perception, and visible reminders keep the perception more readily intact than does the absence of them. With no substantial proof of benefits for either position (raze or preserve), the affected community should have the final say."

Can a Murder Aura Be Erased?

Demolishing a building where violence happened helps communities heal, but some advocates for the preservation of such properties offer reasonable counter-arguments.

www.psychologytoday.com

The author being Katherine Ramsland, PhD, AND tagged Shadow Boxing just blew my mind.

 

[Swansee]

I like the wide courtroom view too.
I wonder, when the trial happens, what will the camera angle for the witnesses and experts testimonies look like? Will that be zoomed in or a wide angle on the judge's side of the room? I don't care about BK's microexpressions in general, but if he takes the stand I would like to get a good look at his face while he answers questions.

 

[Kemug]

So for one of the worst crimes committed in recent years, allegedly by one of the cleverest men in the country, we have the most irrefutable evidence (DNA). In a nutshell.

 

[Kemug]

Re murder houses - I must say that I was very pleased when I heard that the Bever home in Broken Arrow had been demolished. That massacre really got to me.

 

[Valen2]

So for one of the worst crimes committed in recent years, allegedly by one of the cleverest men in the country, we have the most irrefutable evidence (DNA). In a nutshell.

I don't think people think he is one of the cleverest men in the country. I think HE thought he was one of the cleverest men in the country. If he were as clever as he thought he was, he would have reined in his behavior as a TA and not gotten fired. Bringing attention to yourself right before you commit mass murder is not clever.

 

[Sundog]

By Katherine Ramsland, PhD

"News this past December that the University of Idaho would demolish an off-campus rental house where four students were murdered the year before shocked many."

"It’s difficult to find research that shows a clear benefit from razing stigmatized properties. There’s plenty on PTSD in the context of personal trauma or witnessing violence but nothing beyond opinion pieces about sustained awareness from visual reminders. The murder aura is grounded in perception, and visible reminders keep the perception more readily intact than does the absence of them. With no substantial proof of benefits for either position (raze or preserve), the affected community should have the final say."

Can a Murder Aura Be Erased?

Demolishing a building where violence happened helps communities heal, but some advocates for the preservation of such properties offer reasonable counter-arguments.

www.psychologytoday.com

Interesting that Katherine Ramsland has decided to insert herself publicly now in this case. Albeit about the King Road house/site of the murders, but she has been silent so far, AFAIK, on the murders given that BK was one of her students and a student at DeSales where she teaches.

 

[iamshadow21]

Interesting that Katherine Ramsland has decided to insert herself publicly now in this case. Albeit about the King Road house/site of the murders, but she has been silent so far, AFAIK, on the murders given that BK was one of her students and a student at DeSales where she teaches.

Surprised she sat on her hands this long, to be honest. Wonder how far she is into her book about him. You can't tell me she isn't going to write one. Everyone in true crime seems to want to be some variation of Truman Capote or Ann Rule. I assume she's going to go the Rule route this time; the parallels are obvious.

MOO

 

[Justice101]

I like the wide courtroom view too.
I wonder, when the trial happens, what will the camera angle for the witnesses and experts testimonies look like? Will that be zoomed in or a wide angle on the judge's side of the room? I don't care about BK's microexpressions in general, but if he takes the stand I would like to get a good look at his face while he answers questions.

Definitely will not show the jury in the view.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Interesting that Katherine Ramsland has decided to insert herself publicly now in this case. Albeit about the King Road house/site of the murders, but she has been silent so far, AFAIK, on the murders given that BK was one of her students and a student at DeSales where she teaches.

Agreed!! I still believe BK wanted to "one up" BTK and got his impetus from Ramsland's writings and teachings.

 

[Sundog]

Agreed!! I still believe BK wanted to "one up" BTK and got his impetus from Ramsland's writings and teachings.

It's certainly possible, or maybe he wanted Ramsland's attention in the same way that she gave BTK.