4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

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Hearing

On January 21st at 10:00 a.m. Mountain Time, the Court will hold a closed/sealed hearing by remote video means to (1) hear the Defense Motion to Unseal materials related to its request to suppress evidence stemming from the use of IGG DNA, and (2) consider what portions, if any, and under what circumstances, should the various motions set to be heard on January 23" and January 24" be open to the public either live and/or by video.

 
MTS Apple
Cpl. Payne requested a very broad time frame of October 7, 2016 to December 30, 2022 and for any and all Apple accounts linked.

Reply to States Objection Apple
All they knew was that there was a receipt for an IPad, purchased in 2018, in his car.

The Apple warrant scope requested two years of icloud data before the purchase of the ipad (receipt found in the car)?

jmo
 
Nila Aella said:
MTS Apple
Cpl. Payne requested a very broad time frame of October 7, 2016 to December 30, 2022 and for any and all Apple accounts linked.

Reply to States Objection Apple
All they knew was that there was a receipt for an IPad, purchased in 2018, in his car.

The Apple warrant scope requested two years of icloud data before the purchase of the ipad (receipt found in the car)?

jmo
Click to expand...
Right back to the creation of his iCloud account.

I can’t begin to imagine what they’ll find there. It could prove absolutely devastating.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
I think it's possible he had become enthralled with a serious offender and been in some sort of sick and dark alliance but there is no evidence of that so far as we the public know of. JMO
Click to expand...
It'll be interesting to see who exactly responded to BK's Reddit questionnaire. And any follow-up dialog with said offender.
 
MassGuy said:
Right back to the creation of his iCloud account.

I can’t begin to imagine what they’ll find there. It could prove absolutely devastating.
Click to expand...
So, the date the account was created was known before they requested a warrant on the account.

The particularity requirement means that a warrant must be “specific enough to enable the person conducting the search reasonably to identify the things authorized to be sized.” U.S. v. Spilotro, 800 F.2d 959, 963 (9th Cir. 1986). Once the warrant is specific enough, there must still be a search that provides guidelines to ‘distinguish items used lawfully form those the government had probably cause to seize.” Id. 1t 961. Not only did the State obtain the entirety of Mr. Kohberger’s Apple accounts or 13.3 gigabytes of data, but it has taken no action to sort through that which is lawful or applies to the charges. It has produced the warrant return without any analysis whatsoever.


jmo
 
LinasK said:
I doubt it will overturn how IGG is used. It's established science now and widely used. The methods are Gold Standard. If it were overturned, it would overturn many, many convictions in this country- including the one of my cousin's murderer. I don't see it happening.
Click to expand...
I do, at some point case law is going to have to be made as at present there are very few laws that apply to IGG and it will be litigated as more defence attorneys challenge the way it is used,
I don't think the methods are gold standard from a legal standpoint, this defence team has been requesting the reports of how IGG was used in this case from the beginning and the state refused to hand it over, they refused to reveal anything about the method, the science, who did it etc
IGG is what moved the case from un sub to BK, so from that came all the search warrants, the arrest warrant etc
The defence is arguing that IGG is the issue and everything else is fruit from that poison tree
We shall see what happens in court,
 
joe jones said:
I do, at some point case law is going to have to be made as at present there are very few laws that apply to IGG and it will be litigated as more defence attorneys challenge the way it is used,
I don't think the methods are gold standard from a legal standpoint, this defence team has been requesting the reports of how IGG was used in this case from the beginning and the state refused to hand it over, they refused to reveal anything about the method, the science, who did it etc
IGG is what moved the case from un sub to BK, so from that came all the search warrants, the arrest warrant etc
The defence is arguing that IGG is the issue and everything else is fruit from that poison tree
We shall see what happens in court,
Click to expand...


All MOO

I find it pretty odd that the prosecution wants to keep it a secret. What are they hiding? Some of you will say nothing and I'd say then show it. Yes they are hiding it b/c the defense has asked numerous times and yet they still won't hand it over. It's a red flag in my opinion and believe BK has the right to a public trial just like everyone else.



MOO
 
CKS said:
All MOO

I find it pretty odd that the prosecution wants to keep it a secret. What are they hiding? Some of you will say nothing and I'd say then show it. Yes they are hiding it b/c the defense has asked numerous times and yet they still won't hand it over. It's a red flag in my opinion and believe BK has the right to a public trial just like everyone else.



MOO
Click to expand...
They don't want to hand over a list of countless innocent people that will be scrutinized as a result of the process. That's spectacularly unfair, as there is no question that Kohberger's DNA is what matches the sheath; not a relative.

Innocent people shouldn't have to pay a price just because they share DNA with a killer, or because their names came up as a result of that analysis.
 
MassGuy said:
They don't want to hand over a list of countless innocent people that will be scrutinized as a result of the process. That's spectacularly unfair, as there is no question that Kohberger's DNA is what matches the sheath; not a relative.

Innocent people shouldn't have to pay a price just because they share DNA with a killer, or because their names came up as a result of that analysis.
Click to expand...
The D has the family tree and the names are under seal.

The P was ordered by the Judge to produce the records, twice - after MTCs were filed by the D.

Motion to unseal:

Mr. Kohberger filed his first motion to compel IGG discovery on June 22, 2023 (2). The hearing on that matter was public and involved the testimony of several expert witnesses. The court ordered the production of records in camera and under seal. Mr. Kohberger filed a second motion to compel IGG discovery on April 15, 2024 (3). Over the objection of Mr. Kohberger, the court required that portion of the May 30, 2024, hearing on the second motion to compel IGG discovery be closed. The court again ordered the production of records under seal. The court’s concerns were the privacy rights of the names of individuals identified in Mr. Kohberger’s family tree.

The Motion to Suppress Re: Genetic Information was filed on November 14, 2024, and is now fully briefed. Pursuant to court direction, the parties stipulated to file all IGG suppression pleadings under seal. No names of the extended family tree are discussed in the briefing. The matter is set for hearing on January 23 and 24, 2025. Mr. Kohberger requests that the briefing be unsealed and the hearing take place in an open court.



JMO.
Edit to place footnotes in Parenth b/c they were confusing with the date
footnotes
2 Defendant’s Third Motion to Compel Discovery, filed 6/22/2023.
3 Defendant’s Fifth Motion to Compel Discovery, filed 4/15/2024.
 
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MassGuy said:
They don't want to hand over a list of countless innocent people that will be scrutinized as a result of the process. That's spectacularly unfair, as there is no question that Kohberger's DNA is what matches the sheath; not a relative.

Innocent people shouldn't have to pay a price just because they share DNA with a killer, or because their names came up as a result of that analysis.
Click to expand...
I agree that innocent relatives shouldn't be dragged into this, especially with the risk of online and IRL harassment (or worse) that would likely stem from that.
IMO there's a simple fix, which would be to unseal while keeping those names and any other identifying elements redacted.
We'll see what the judge decides.
 
A hearing is scheduled for Jan. 23 as Kohberger’s defense prepares to fight the use of IGG in his case, but now his team has asked that the hearing be opened to the public.

www.courttv.com

Bryan Kohberger defense wants some case evidence unsealed

Bryan Kohberger's defense has asked that a hearing on the use of Investigative Genetic Genealogy be opened to the public.
www.courttv.com www.courttv.com

1.16.2025
 
Tapeartree said:
It still doesn't compare to the DNA on the knife sheath. Is it possible that the DNA in the house may have been found on the victims themselves? Is that what would make it significant for collection? It still wouldn't be very significant, IMO, as everyone was returning from a party or bar where they may have briefly been in contact with others. Could someone had hugged them or touched their hands?

The two unknown male DNA found inside or even on the deceased themselves doesn't compare to the DNA on the knife sheath.
Click to expand...
I think just the opposite based purely on science. Human beings shed almost 1,000,000 skin cells per day and 50 to 70 billion of our cells die each day. In one hour, we shed at least 30,000 to 40,000 skin cells. According to what LE told Howard Blum there were only 20 or less skin cells on the sheath snap. Low cell count almost always indicates secondary DNA transfer. JMO.
www.news-medical.net

Secondary Transfer of DNA in Forensics

Secondary DNA transfer occurs when DNA is transferred to an object or person through an intermediate.
www.news-medical.net www.news-medical.net
The 20 or less skin cells on the sheath is most likely a secondary DNA transfer. Usually it takes 80 skin cells to get a complete STR. But those 80 are "remaining cells" so would have to have come from an even larger sample of at least 200 cells because some cells are destroyed during the STR process. JMO.

The most up to date techniques can get an STR from 20 cells, BUT, I'm not 100% certain they were able to get a complete STR profile from 20 skin cells or less mainly because some of them are wasted during processing. JMO. Indirect DNA Transfer and Forensic Implications: A Literature Review - PMC

I would be very interested in knowing how many cells were in the the two other samples and much more importantly, what they were composed of? If they are DNA from a body fluid such as semen, spit, sweat or blood, I would think the two unknown samples were far more important than a low cell count secondary skin cell transfer DNA on the sheath. JMO.

All JMO.
 
Justice101 said:
At one point, I thought he left it there intentionally since he had probably wiped off the whole sheath before he left that night. I think he was going to call himself the sheath killer or something like that. And keep doing it becoming a Serial Killer like he had studied.

However, I am not so convinced he left it on purpose now.
Click to expand...
Sometimes we make things more complex than they are. We've all read about serial killers like the Zodiac who want to taunt police and still get away with the killing. But mostly a perfect crime is not leaving any evidence. Then, even if law enforcement is looking at the killer, it's not always possible to prosecute.
 
I agree IGG needs further definitive rules and legislation when used by LE officials in criminal cases decided by State Supreme Courts and that will happen in the near future. It literally exploded onto the scene with the Golden State Killer arrest and has been used many times since in current and cold cases. It isn't going anywhere, and LE here used Othram Labs which is the Gold Standard.

They had/have BK's DNA on the knife sheath snap left at the murder scene. That is a staggering 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+%, perfect single source match, no other DNA from a 'friend' or the 'seller' was found, ONLY BK's.

That, along with ALL the other 'too coincidental' evidence is going to lock BK up tight. The CCTV video footage or his car passing by the house 4 times that night right before the Murders. His previous 13 creeping trips (IMO) that we know of driving by the house before the murders, where he was actually stopped and ticketed by LE for no seatbelt late at night in August before the murders.

The surviving roommate's testimony, and the latent shoe print recovered right outside her door that was said to have a Vans type soul consistent to his size (12). His alibi is so weak, I can't even muster the energy to debunk it. The Defense plans on using the State's witnesses to help establish that possibility. His phone records alone are going to help sink him. BK has documented social interaction issues with women and fellow female students as well. (High School and College incidents)

That doesn't include the stuff that we don't even know of yet. AT & Co are doing their job and doing it well, but their client is as guilty a Defendant as I've seen, and I believe a jury of his peers will find him guilty as well.

Maddison, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan all deserve justice, as do their families, as well as the Moscow Community. It's coming.

JMO
 
Balthazar said:
I think just the opposite based purely on science. Human beings shed almost 1,000,000 skin cells per day and 50 to 70 billion of our cells die each day. In one hour, we shed at least 30,000 to 40,000 skin cells. According to what LE told Howard Blum there were only 20 or less skin cells on the sheath snap. Low cell count almost always indicates secondary DNA transfer. JMO.
www.news-medical.net

Secondary Transfer of DNA in Forensics

Secondary DNA transfer occurs when DNA is transferred to an object or person through an intermediate.
www.news-medical.net www.news-medical.net
The 20 or less skin cells on the sheath is most likely a secondary DNA transfer. Usually it takes 80 skin cells to get a complete STR. But those 80 are "remaining cells" so would have to have come from an even larger sample of at least 200 cells because some cells are destroyed during the STR process. JMO.

The most up to date techniques can get an STR from 20 cells, BUT, I'm not 100% certain they were able to get a complete STR profile from 20 skin cells or less mainly because some of them are wasted during processing. JMO. Indirect DNA Transfer and Forensic Implications: A Literature Review - PMC

I would be very interested in knowing how many cells were in the the two other samples and much more importantly, what they were composed of? If they are DNA from a body fluid such as semen, spit, sweat or blood, I would think the two unknown samples were far more important than a low cell count secondary skin cell transfer DNA on the sheath. JMO.

All JMO.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why the details are important to know.
Collection (method used), processing and statistical analysis (parameters).
jmo
 
Nila Aella said:
The D has the family tree and the names are under seal.

The P was ordered by the Judge to produce the records, twice - after MTCs were filed by the D.

Motion to unseal:

Mr. Kohberger filed his first motion to compel IGG discovery on June 22, 2023 (2). The hearing on that matter was public and involved the testimony of several expert witnesses. The court ordered the production of records in camera and under seal. Mr. Kohberger filed a second motion to compel IGG discovery on April 15, 2024 (3). Over the objection of Mr. Kohberger, the court required that portion of the May 30, 2024, hearing on the second motion to compel IGG discovery be closed. The court again ordered the production of records under seal. The court’s concerns were the privacy rights of the names of individuals identified in Mr. Kohberger’s family tree.

The Motion to Suppress Re: Genetic Information was filed on November 14, 2024, and is now fully briefed. Pursuant to court direction, the parties stipulated to file all IGG suppression pleadings under seal. No names of the extended family tree are discussed in the briefing. The matter is set for hearing on January 23 and 24, 2025. Mr. Kohberger requests that the briefing be unsealed and the hearing take place in an open court.



JMO.
Edit to place footnotes in Parenth b/c they were confusing with the date
footnotes
2 Defendant’s Third Motion to Compel Discovery, filed 6/22/2023.
3 Defendant’s Fifth Motion to Compel Discovery, filed 4/15/2024.
Click to expand...
Have to say that I don't find that coincidental at all that the Defense wants lights, camera and action on this now. :rolleyes:
Just a guess, but I think Judge Hippler will rule against that request.

JMO
 
Motion to unseal

In addition to Mr. Kohberger’s right to a public trial, the public has a First Amendment right to know what goes on in its courts.

Here, the way in which the IGG material was accessed and used is a matter warranting public disclosure and should not be shielded from public’s right to know. This matter is of utmost importance to Mr. Kohberger’s right to a public hearing, holding the hearing in open court will not prejudice the parties, and this should be held in open court.

The issues raised are legal issues and cases with similar issues are being decided in other states. The issues raised in Mr. Kohberger’s suppression motion are those that were discussed in the public hearing on the first motion to compel.4 Additionally, the way in which IGG occurred in this case has been made public in other cases. See, State v. Hartman, 534 P.3d 423, 438-39 (Wash.Ct.App.2023); Avi Selk, The Ingenious and ‘Dystopian’ Technique Police Used to Hunt the ‘Golden Sate Killer’ Suspect, WASHINGTON POST (Apr. 28, 2018)

footnote
4Aspects of the IGG investigation in this case have already been leaked. Heather Tal Murphy, How Police Actually Cracked the Idaho Killings Case, Slate (Jan. 10, 2023) (available at https://slate.com/technology/2023/01/bryan-kohberger-university-idaho-murders-forensicgenealogy.html).

 
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