48 Hours Mystery Part 2 June 2012

[BKS]

Exactly!!!! So lets assume the SK knows this after meeting MW. He asks ALC to meet him there. She says no. Why did she say no? She must have known it was one of those "spots".
Now on the other hand, MW and the SK never met INSIDE the HIE. So why would he request ALC meet him there?

I believe that the vacant lot next to the hotel is a perfect spot to attack someone. Once she is in the vehicle he goes there, over powers her, and then he has control. IMHO

 

[truthspider]

A sidenote on the Suffolk PD: I had no idea they were still searching for a replacement for Dormer ...

Until this weekend I had no idea that dormer went buh-by as a result of the investigation. Apparently some of his statements put him in the hot seat. I will miss the accent we enjoyed so much airly on in da investigation.

New Suffolk Commissioner Could Be Named Soon - YouTube
These people are a joke.

More weekend cocktail conversation has convinced me of the same:
"they have absolutely nothing" - credible person speaking about recent conversations with top SCPD homicide investigators. Apparently the real TS (the one that matters) weekends in my neck of the dunes. I will ask for a meet and greet one of these weekends.

I haven't really had a chance to see the show as I attempted to watch it in a party setting Saturday night. What I do know is that the 48 hours team has been doing much more filming and interviewing than Saturday's show would lead you to believe. I know there were some new interviews in OB that were not a part of this episode. I expect we will see some of those interviews and footage in future episodes.

It seems to me that 48 hours is the reporting team who isn't going to let certain persons of interest get off easy. When a poi gets a lawyer and threatens to sue if there name is used, it will fend off many people and reporters who don't want to take the risk. I was glad to see that 48 hours understands their legal right to report.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I believe that the vacant lot next to the hotel is a perfect spot to attack someone. Once she is in the vehicle he goes there, over powers her, and then he has control. IMHO

The place is, but rather for a stalker type snatching MW on the way back from her last client. Not so much for someone who lures her somehow to a hotel, she had used several times in the past anyway because he would need to get her over to the next spot first.

 

[BKS]

Peter, he was her last client. She went to meet him.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, he was her last client. She went to meet him.

Yeah, and the other three of the GB4 had other last Johns, so it's all a giant conspiracy like "johns in all countries unite to kill escorts and wrap them all the same way in burlap". Yeah, right!

 

[BKS]

Yeah, and the other three of the GB4 had other last Johns, so it's all a giant conspiracy like "johns in all countries unite to kill escorts and wrap them all the same way in burlap". Yeah, right!

Of course they were all the same John. What makes you think otherwise. There is every indication that each girl went to meet a man. They trusted him and probably had met him before. No conspiracy theory here. Whether he was a John sometimes or maybe portrayed himself as friend, it doesn't mater. The girls trusted and went with the same man. He did whatever, to fulfill his need for murder.

 

[BKS]

It's been discussed before that this hotel is known for being a place to take prostitutes and protects both the prostitutes and their pimps and clients. Why rent a room for $60 or so a night when they can rent it 8 or so times a day/night for the same price. It may also protect high profile clients. JMO from rumors on various forums. If anyone has any other info to support this I would love to hear it.

If this was a known hot sheet hotel, it would also be a great place for the SK to stalk his victims. The vacant lot next to it is an ideal setting for a blitz attack on the victim. IMHO

 

[hawkshaw]

Until this weekend I had no idea that dormer went buh-by as a result of the investigation. Apparently some of his statements put him in the hot seat. I will miss the accent we enjoyed so much airly on in da investigation.



More weekend cocktail conversation has convinced me of the same:
"they have absolutely nothing" - credible person speaking about recent conversations with top SCPD homicide investigators. Apparently the real TS (the one that matters) weekends in my neck of the dunes. I will ask for a meet and greet one of these weekends.

I haven't really had a chance to see the show as I attempted to watch it in a party setting Saturday night. What I do know is that the 48 hours team has been doing much more filming and interviewing than Saturday's show would lead you to believe. I know there were some new interviews in OB that were not a part of this episode. I expect we will see some of those interviews and footage in future episodes.

It seems to me that 48 hours is the reporting team who isn't going to let certain persons of interest get off easy. When a poi gets a lawyer and threatens to sue if there name is used, it will fend off many people and reporters who don't want to take the risk. I was glad to see that 48 hours understands their legal right to report.

Dormer resigning:

My information was that Dormer intended to resign long before he actually resigned. The attacks on his not so good name by the PBA etc., kind of made it hard for Levy and Dormer to let go. When his son was stabbed it opened up another problem I have yet to understand. And I never will.

There was a Chief that was on the short list to replace Dormer if he resigned. That fellow was said not to be a favorite of others of lesser reputation. That Chief's wife got an anonymous phone call. Everyone knows of it because it was blasted over the PD radio network when the wife went berserk and took her husband's PD radio.

The Holiday Inn Express is well known to accomodate prostitutes and pimps and the SCPD knows about it for a very long time now.

It has been one of the hubs of prostitution in Suffolk County for many years now. One of several.

FAMILY MEN - Steve Levy is a family man. Pete McGowan is a family man. A lot of people are 'family men', including one prominent ADA, a good hearted soul that picks up young men in distress to give them a ride. Throw in McGreevy in that class of family men.

 

[hawkshaw]

They have picked Popes faster than Suffolk County picks police commissioners. LOL. Bellone does what he is told.

 

[hawkshaw]

BKS, you are throwing in the towel too soon. Why are you saying the GB4 were killed by the same person? Do you really know that? How do you know there wasn't more than one killer and at different times - killers that knew each other.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Newb question?

Those phone-calls from the killer/supposed killer, I read in a comment here on this thread.

Are they available to the public to listen to?

I checked all the threads here. Either there not available or I may have over look the thread.

Thank-you for your answer.

 

[nugzter]

Newb question?

Those phone-calls from the killer/supposed killer, I read in a comment here on this thread.

Are they available to the public to listen to?

I checked all the threads here. Either there not available or I may have over look the thread.

Thank-you for your answer.

No LE has not made them available.

 

[BKS]

Newb question?

Those phone-calls from the killer/supposed killer, I read in a comment here on this thread.

Are they available to the public to listen to?

I checked all the threads here. Either there not available or I may have over look the thread.

Thank-you for your answer.

None of the phone calls have been released to the public. Not the calls nor transcripts of the calls.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Newb question?

Those phone-calls from the killer/supposed killer, I read in a comment here on this thread.

Are they available to the public to listen to?

I checked all the threads here. Either there not available or I may have over look the thread.

Thank-you for your answer.

Nope, unfortunately, SCPD holds them under lock and key. Maybe they are afraid, someone solves the case ... I don't know.

 

[Seaslug44]

I'm hoping I could be voice of reason here by asking the following questions;

• What proof do we have that any of the GB4 other than ACL were actually meeting with a John when they disappeared? We make this assumption but do we have any proof?
• Isn't it true that at least one of the GB4 were in touch with family or friends AFTER her last trick was over?
• What proof do we have that there is a single killer of all four GB4? Isn't it remotely possible that there could be more than one killer? I presented this theory last year. What if the person or people placing the bodies there is not the same person as the killer? Technically, none of us have any proof that there is not more than one killer of the GB4 right?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'm hoping I could be voice of reason here by asking the following questions;

• What proof do we have that any of the GB4 other than ACL were actually meeting with a John when they disappeared? We make this assumption but do we have any proof?over the course of many many months it has been repeatedly offered up as to what many in their opinion is indicative of the proof that it was a john.. its not new nor is it in the minority of opinions including of alot more than just posters on a message board
• Isn't it true that at least one of the GB4 were in touch with family or friends AFTER her last trick was over?as has been stated numerous times that there is zero proof of someone having NOT turned a trick after speaking with family.. whether or notthis killer was actually a patron of prostitutes IMO its obvious that at the very least this is the role he took on in procuring his victims.
• What proof do we have that there is a single killer of all four GB4? Isn't it remotely possible that there could be more than one killer?No

My replies in red. Moo..(guess that makes me UNreasonable in some peoples opinion.. oh well!)

 

[Just K]

It is possible that there is more than one person who kills the women and one person whose job it is to dispose of them. Especially, if there is human trafficking or an organized crime component... where the women either won't play along, broke the rules or they are killed after they are used/abused for whatever purposes a group has designed.

No one has ever suggested that the women may have been recruited to bring in or lure other workers to a third party yet that might be something to consider. I am speaking of a hierarchy in an organized business.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'm hoping I could be voice of reason here by asking the following questions;

• What proof do we have that any of the GB4 other than ACL were actually meeting with a John when they disappeared? We make this assumption but do we have any proof?

• 
  
  -> Actually, we know in the cases of Melissa Barthelmy and Amber Costello, they made out with a john. Then there is no trace anymore, leaving the possibility of the john or someone who snatched them on their way back. What we know is Maureen Brainard-Barnes had left the hotel room and was on her way home, her last call was from the bus terminal. So we know, she at least had no last john after the last life sign. Which will not prevent some from constructing such a john.
  The unclear case is Megan Waterman. She seemed just to have left the hotel and it is unclear whether she actually made out with a john. However, it could be the same, she went for candy or cigarettes to the convenience store which would have led her right past the empty slot near the hotel. So, we have two cases, who had a john but could be the same be snatched on the way back, one who had definitely not a john and one we don't know a thing.
  But the real problem with the homicidal john theory is, it makes only sense if all last johns would be tracked back to the same person. As soon as you find two, the game is over. And as it appears, LE found already two (remember the state troopers thing?)
  
  

  [*]Isn't it true that at least one of the GB4 were in touch with family or friends AFTER her last trick was over?

  
  -> Yep, Maureen Brainard-Barnes called friends to vent some steam because she was robbed earlier.
  
  

  [*]What proof do we have that there is a single killer of all four GB4? Isn't it remotely possible that there could be more than one killer? I presented this theory last year. What if the person or people placing the bodies there is not the same person as the killer? Technically, none of us have any proof that there is not more than one killer of the GB4 right?

  
  -> Well, same signature, same killer. This signature is too specific to be used accidentally by two killers. So the only idea left is, that a number of killers works together, which is essentially the fixer theory. Only a fixer would have any reason at all for such a signature. Not with the Atlantic Ocean right next where he could sink his victims in the sea for all eternity. So, probabilities are on the side of one SK. But admittedly, this is behavioral prove only, since all physical evidence is held back by the SCPD.
  

I wrote in between the list, now I hope that works out!

 

[Peter Brendt]

My replies in red. Moo..(guess that makes me UNreasonable in some peoples opinion.. oh well!)

Not unreasonable. Only it opens some questions. For example, how do you reason, that MBB made a phone call from the bus terminal and from there, in your construction, she not only pulled a quick trip (instead of taking the bus home which was her expressed intention) but also by pure chance ran into the guy who would start a series of murders. He was in a place, he couldn't expect a victim at a time, he couldn't expect a victim. So, you can construct any theory about she pulled another trick, but in the end, it is what it is, a construct.
And by the way, if this john who made out with MB, ALC and maybe MW didn't use a burner phone, LE has long found him and excluded, but if he used one, we would as certainly heard about that as we heard about the phone calls to Amanda.
Of course, it has to be a strange john anyway. Three of the victims offered basically very normal sax, one offered femdom. So what would that make this hypothetical homicidal john? A sadist and a masochist at the same time. Someone who likes to be tied up WHILE he ties up his dominatrix? Maybe, since you try to sell this theory, you can explain those discrepancies?
So, as of yet, I'm not convinced about this sadomasobyaccident homicidal john. Maybe you can supply some more arguments for your theory, so many people (and not all just posters) believe in?

 

[Peter Brendt]

It is possible that there is more than one person who kills the women and one person whose job it is to dispose of them. Especially, if there is human trafficking or an organized crime component... where the women either won't play along, broke the rules or they are killed after they are used/abused for whatever purposes a group has designed.

No one has ever suggested that the women may have been recruited to bring in or lure other workers to a third party yet that might be something to consider. I am speaking of a hierarchy in an organized business.

But why would such a person with the job to dispose of the bodies stash them away wrapped in burlap along Gilgo Beach? Instead of just sinking them in the Atlantic Ocean? The whole organized crime theories have one problem: The existence of that little grave yard at Gilgo Beach.