7/24/10 - Law professor finds bloody child sock on Black Butte & questions the system

[yosande]

DNA testing cost money and a lot of states are backed up on testing REAL evidence from known investigations/cases. I don't think LE is going to send over every random piece of clothing or shoe called in by citizens to be tested unless they can show a credible link to a crime or missing persons case.

I'm just surprised how many people here have never seen a random article of clothing or a shoe lying around in the woods or on the side of the road. I see things everyday on the side of the highway; a shirt here, or a shoe there, etc.
LE can't test all of that stuff. Especially a lone sock with a smudge of what could be blood without reason to believe there's some connection to a case.
There's only so much money and man power.

Dead bodies in the woods, left there by murderers, hum, is that where they put them?

yup, that's where they put them...... so a bloody sock the size of a small child with a missing child in the news is something to take notice of, and be concerned. The sock and a cadaver dog might have found something someone didn't want found.....but no chance of that now, since jurisdiction likely threw it in the trash.

 

[Day Dreamer]

dead bodies in the woods, left there by murderers, hum, is that where they put them?

Yup, that's where they put them...... So a bloody sock the size of a small child with a missing child in the news is something to take notice of, and be concerned. The sock and a cadaver dog might have found something someone didn't want found.....but no chance of that now, since jurisdiction likely threw it in the trash.

thank you!!!

 

[Kat]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts yet. I'm sorry. I did read the OP article.

I am not familiar with Oregon, I have never even visited there. I had to google map where Black Butte was in relation to Portland.

I saw that it's over 3 hours away, but interestingly it's off the same highway that takes you to Roseburg? Or did I get that wrong?

Now that I find interesting. Just interesting at this point.

 

[Haeve]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts yet. I'm sorry. I did read the OP article.

I am not familiar with Oregon, I have never even visited there. I had to google map where Black Butte was in relation to Portland.

I saw that it's over 3 hours away, but interestingly it's off the same highway that takes you to Roseburg? Or did I get that wrong?

Now that I find interesting. Just interesting at this point.

Ah, I see what the confusion is. You see, there was once a post office near Cottage Grove, Oregon called Black Butte, Oregon or Blackbutte, Oregon. There is indeed a butte named Black Butte there, but it's not the famous one. And yes, that place is near I-5.

See upthread for the Wikilink to the Black Butte the Oregonian writer is talking about. It's near Sisters, Oregon. There is a resort community near the best known Black Butte named Black Butte Ranch, Oregon, if you Google Map for directions there, you'll be much closer.

Not to brag, but I'm pretty much the expert on Wikipedia about small towns and former post offices (which are not always one in the same!) in Oregon and I've spent almost 5 years studying this stuff. </geek> (Mods if you need my cred I can send you my username.) Anyone who wants more geography info, please ask on the "Ask a Local" thread.

 

[Justin Tyme]

That and there is one poster that they have removed comments by. ??

Did they remove someone else's comment besides mine? Or am I just special? Maybe I did get a little out of hand. My apologies to the board.

I was just thinking about how far away missing children are found from where they were originally taken from. Some are taken hundreds of miles away from home.

I feel for the man. Seems like he was truly trying to help. There are so many times when things, no matter how small, are over looked or worse ignored when a child is missing.

I think that I am going to :bangheadn this wall for awhile, maybe that will make me fell better. This is just my :twocents:

 

[Calliope]

LE always encourages people to call in all tips no matter how small because the tip could be the missing piece they need to solve a case. That has been repeatedly stated by LE in Kyron's case.

So, with this response (or lack there of) to this tip I have to wonder how many others have been ignored? How many other people won't call in their tips due to such reactions?? Very serious problem here in my eyes.

Exactly. All that talk from LE pleading with people to call in tips, even if they thought them to be insignificant, was apparently just so much hot air.

 

[pugglesworth]

Oh boy. I have to say this doesn't surprise me at all. We used to live in a close-ish suburb of Portland and had similar problems with police response and jurisdiction "issues." We were City of Portland, but Washington Co. (Most of pdx is Multnomah Co.) We were on the literal last block of jurisdiction for the Portland Police. And yet, when we would call, whether it was nonemergency or relatively urgent, we would get tossed back and forth between jurisdictions, with either side getting exasperated and snapping at us that we'd called the wrong people. Our tires were slashed one morning, and no one would take a report. We saw a drug dealer kid riding around and around the bike on a block doing obviously suspicious things for several weeks and called it in. No one had anything to say other than "that's the other police bureau's problem." We found a wallet full of cash and credit cards in an empty parking lot and called the number associated with the name on the ID and got no response, so we called the police. They were annoyed we had even bothered them, "take out a Craigslist ad." I was like, "what if something happened to this woman? What if she is somewhere needing help? Don't you even want to look up her DL number and see if you can track her down so she can have her American Express back?" Nothing. Fortunately we found her through our own sleuthing (I found her linked in profile and called her at work!) but can you imagine if a crime had occurred? They cared more about whether we were going to force them to do work that could be done by the other guys, it seemed.

 

[RubyRed]

How did he get the sock out of his pants pocket to show to the other hikers?

Is it safe?"

"Sure, we were all careful not to touch it, and we put it in a plastic Les Schwab bag."


http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/web_exclusive_a_bloody_find_an.html

 

[belikay]

This reminds me of Roy Kronk, persistently contacting LE and the Caylee tip line and telling coworkers of his suspicions about seeing a skull at the site off of Suburban where Caylee was finally found months later. Nobody took him seriously, despite his repeated attempts to get someone to just check into it. This worries me. Give me ONE good reason a child's sock with a lot of fresh blood on it found in an area that a child has been missing in for almost two months shouldn't be at least looked into?? you know, I was reassured that LE was doing a good job of following up on all the tips they've received (38 4" binders filled with tips, remember?), but now I'm just not as confident about it. :banghead: The only tiny comfort I can derive from this is maybe they already have a good idea where he might be, or have very solid evidence that makes them KNOW this isn't related. The possibility that they just aren't looking into something like this because they don't care is too frustrating to consider. Kyron, where are you baby boy?!

As I came on to catch up on Kyron, I read that and thought EXACTLY the same thing as you! How frusterating!!:banghead:

 

[evelyn24]

Dead bodies in the woods, left there by murderers, hum, is that where they put them?

yup, that's where they put them...... so a bloody sock the size of a small child with a missing child in the news is something to take notice of, and be concerned. The sock and a cadaver dog might have found something someone didn't want found.....but no chance of that now, since jurisdiction likely threw it in the trash.

lol
ok

IMO this is all a distraction. I seriously doubt the sock is relevant to Kyron or any other case. I do however think the professor is in need of some attention.
JMO

 

[evelyn24]

Originally Posted by sarah7855
This reminds me of Roy Kronk, persistently contacting LE and the Caylee tip line and telling coworkers of his suspicions about seeing a skull at the site off of Suburban where Caylee was finally found months later. Nobody took him seriously, despite his repeated attempts to get someone to just check into it. This worries me. Give me ONE good reason a child's sock with a lot of fresh blood on it found in an area that a child has been missing in for almost two months shouldn't be at least looked into?? you know, I was reassured that LE was doing a good job of following up on all the tips they've received (38 4" binders filled with tips, remember?), but now I'm just not as confident about it. The only tiny comfort I can derive from this is maybe they already have a good idea where he might be, or have very solid evidence that makes them KNOW this isn't related. The possibility that they just aren't looking into something like this because they don't care is too frustrating to consider. Kyron, where are you baby boy?!

Was it fresh blood and I don't think this was anywhere near Kyron's school.

 

[Gramof7]

I don't necessarily think it should have been tested. I would like for it to have been; but, I do understand the costs and back log at labs. Would it have been so hard to bag it and put it in an evidence locker w/ info just in case something came up later on?

Or...How about at least comparing it, size and brand to the socks that are in the photo of the clothes that Kyron supposedly had on that day he disappeared. Then, if it doesn't match do as above quote mentioned.

 

[RubyRed]

Was it fresh blood and I don't think this was anywhere near Kyron's school.

The blood looks relatively fresh and the car has been up there for awhile." That car, ... that car belongs to the fire lookout on the top of the tower."

It was 163 miles or just under 3 hours, there also was a car that appeared abandoned, that wasn't. It is not hard to imagine a perp very well could have gotten that far.

A tip like this is far better than a tip that says Have you requested video and pictures from the day Kyron went missing. Now that is a lame tip. moo

 

[Calliope]

So the sock isn't the same brand as what Kyron wore that day. So they don't think it's possible Kyron was taken that far away (yeah right... with 6+ hours lead, but I digress).

What if...

This wasn't Kyron's sock, but belonged to another child (or even a small adult)?

What if by investigating this potential evidence, they find a person who is a (as yet unknown) serial offender, perhaps even one who can be tracked back to Kyron?

What if Kyron wasn't his first or only victim?

Just because the sock and the blood doesn't match Kyron doesn't mean it won't lead back to him. Even if it doesn't, there could be a victim out there who needs justice served as well.

 

[ami]

lol
ok

IMO this is all a distraction. I seriously doubt the sock is relevant to Kyron or any other case. I do however think the professor is in need of some attention.
JMO

So what if it's not relevant to Kyron or another missing child. So what if for every 1 real, useful lead there are 100 leads that are nothing - should people stop trying? Everyone who gives LE a lead thinks there is the potential for it to be useful. Are they all "in need of attention" for trying really hard to help? With the LE so silent about *the most publicized missing person in Oregon* right now, how would the average person know if a child's blood covered sock is important in any other case? We honestly don't know if some town's LE has found one bloody sock of a missing kid and is sitting there right now wondering where the other one is.

Also, there are billboards all over the place of Kyron imploring people to look around them, open their eyes, pay attention, report anything that seems suspicious. Jeez, we've seen TH's sexts get loads of attention from LE... I don't blame anyone for focusing on Kyron and thinking maybe, maybe they can help bring him home or at least help someone who needs it.

 

[Kat]

Ah, I see what the confusion is. You see, there was once a post office near Cottage Grove, Oregon called Black Butte, Oregon or Blackbutte, Oregon. There is indeed a butte named Black Butte there, but it's not the famous one. And yes, that place is near I-5.

See upthread for the Wikilink to the Black Butte the Oregonian writer is talking about. It's near Sisters, Oregon. There is a resort community near the best known Black Butte named Black Butte Ranch, Oregon, if you Google Map for directions there, you'll be much closer.

Not to brag, but I'm pretty much the expert on Wikipedia about small towns and former post offices (which are not always one in the same!) in Oregon and I've spent almost 5 years studying this stuff. </geek> (Mods if you need my cred I can send you my username.) Anyone who wants more geography info, please ask on the "Ask a Local" thread.

Haeve, thank you so much for taking the time to explain that to me. I didn't want to just hit the thanks button

 

[Ada]

Years ago, I lived in an apartment building right across the street from the Sheriff's Dept. Street, not highway. Small street.

Very loud, blood curdling, screams were coming from a house just behind me. Not sounds like a fight. Just this horrible shrieking. The kind that makes your blood run cold. This was usually a quiet area. It was about 11pm.

I didn't have phone service so I ran across the street to the Sheriff's Dept and ran inside to tell them about the screaming. If they had stepped outside, they would have heard it.

They told me it was not their jurisdiction and I would have to call the City Police Dept. Then they pushed the phone across the counter to me. I had to ask them for the phone number to the City Police.

Not long after this event, I learned of an acquaintance's rape in her house by a stranger who assaulted her for 6 hours. She lived in my neighborhood but I don't know exactly where. I always wondered if it was her I heard screaming.

This lawyer's story reminded me of this. It still infuriates me. :furious:


(I did call the City Police from the Sheriff's Dept. Did not ever see a cop around that night and no one came by my apt to ask me any questions)

 

[Susan10]

A bloody find on Black Butte and a broken system

On a recent Friday afternoon, I drove south out of Portland, headed for the soul-restoring Santiam Pass to my cabin on the Metolius River in Camp Sherman. It had been a busy workday, the day following our wedding anniversary, and the glorious Central Oregon night, with a huge moon and countless crystal stars in a clear sky, was all I'd hoped for.

Little did I know that in the next 24 hours, a routine morning hike and the discovery of a bloody sock on the trailhead would lead me into a tangle of bureaucratic bungling and jurisdictional disputes and the realization that a citizen trying to do the right thing can be thwarted by broken, dysfunctional systems.

Indeed, truth is stranger and sometimes more disturbing than fiction.

(snipped)
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/web_exclusive_a_bloody_find_an.html

Disgusting. It's a wonder crimes get solved at all. From what I know about it, it's usually a tip from someone that does it, not legwork. imho.

I had a similar incident happen, but I was not as tenacious as the Prof above. I saw a truck driving and circling in an area in which a female's body had been found. The plate stood out, too. It was "wan2pla."

I called the LE station and asked the dispatcher for the detective in charge of the case. She wanted to know what I had to say. I told her what I'd seen. She asked something to the effect of "Was the truck there before or after the body was found?"

I told her "after" and with disdain she said "We're looking for vehicles that were there before the body was found." She refused to take the plate number.

Oh brother. Obviously she was ignorant of the fact that sometimes killers return to the scene of the crime. The case has never been solved to my knowledge and that was several years ago. Any wonder why?

It still irks me. Who was she to decide what info got passed on to the detective?

 

[TechWriter797]

I had a similar incident happen, but I was not as tenacious as the Prof above. I saw a truck driving and circling in an area in which a female's body had been found. The plate stood out, too. It was "wan2pla."

Why don't you follow up on it now? Go in and talk to a detective.

 

[Susan10]

This story is indeed weird. I do not think that the sock is related to Ky's case but I still find it disturbing that LE would not take the report seriously. What caught my attention more then the news story was the comments. I will not post the user name but read the long comment about TH's friends not to talk to LE and and get a laywer. Now click on the users name. That same message was pasted every 2 mins like 10 times between 2:10 am and 2:27 am.(not on same thread) I find that very strange.

Things that make ya go Hmmm...

thx, OhighO. Good sleuthing! I went back to check out the comments. Strange indeed!