Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Bobbarita, Oct 11, 2010.
Ok, If I understand you correctly, you are comparing a known sample from the original recording to the missing portion. I'm not at my system but this is what I would do - provided Wavelab can do it. As you know, the relative "height" of the signal represents it's amplitude. So assuming the two samples do not have the same amplitude, it's a matter of trying to determine WHY the two signals do not have the same amplitude. Can the noise generated by all the analog circuitry from the phone company and on the front end of the recording system at the 911 facility change over time? Possibly over the time of a single call? Imo that's a question for a Telco guy, but I have to assume that the answer is yes.
But maybe try this -
1 normalize the files respective amplitudes so that they match.
2 superimpose and very carefully time align the two files.
3 reverse the phase 180 degrees on just one of the files.
I'm sorry I can't help with exactly how to accomplish this in Wavepad as I am not familiar with it.
I always wondered who came up with "Murphy's Law." Now I know.:lol:
Oh, c'mon, WL. At least it roused you from your snooze.
I'm afraid the free version of the software I have is limited in what I can do with it. But if I understand what you're suggesting, I might be able to do it with photo software just to compare the patterns. Myself not being a pro at this sort of thing, I have to ask if that would be the same thing as what you are saying?
Ok, I can likely do it early next week. Can you direct me to where I can download what in your opinion would be the best file to work with? Is there a wave available anywhere?
Imo the photo software can't provide anything of value. This will be extremely unscientific, as there are so many variables beyond our control, but what I'll do is make both samples the same volume, then I'll place one exactly over the other, so they both play together. And then I'll reverse one of them, making it a mirror image of itself. So say sample A is from the beginning of the tape, and sample B is the missing portion - we reverse one and in the digital domain if we did this with two identical files they would null. They would cancel each other out and leave nothing to hear or see. However our samples will not be exactly the same, so what the process will leave as a result is the difference between the two samples. Then (provided Mr O'Murphy) stays out of it, we can listen to the resulting file and possible use it to help form an opinion as to if there are two different machines used or not.
I understand what you’re saying you’ll do, but it is certainly beyond my capabilities, so I’ll leave it in your capable hands. Thank you for all the work you’ve done (and are willing to do) on this. If successful, it should show scientifically what is otherwise just my (admittedly) subjective opinion that they are two different machines.
Here’s what I did last night after I read your post. I isolated and enlarged each of the sound patterns and got a screen capture. First is the beginning (which we’ll refer to as “Sample A”, and then the sample from the 4 second erasure (which we’ll refer to as “Sample B”.
Again, this is not nearly as scientific as what you’re talking about, but it’s enough to me to think they are not from the same device.
I’ve stored all my work at Mediafire. If you want simply the buzzes I had previously isolated from the two different sections and then looped together it is here:
This again is the histogram showing (hopefully) how I repeated the two sounds on the "Buzz Comparison" file (A, B, ABAB, ABABAB):
The original from which I worked is here (in case you want to take a fresh sampling of the buzzes):
Or if you would rather use the original file that I downloaded, it is here:
If you need anything else, just let me know. You should still have my email.
I realize there is controversy about what, if anything, is on the very end of the 911 call after PR thought she hung up the phone but somehow it did not disconnect and was still recording. I just want to discuss what it might mean if we believe what the engineers who analyzed the end of the tape say they heard, which was basically this:
BR: Well, what "did" you find? emphasis on "did".
JR: We aren't talking to you now! (Very Angry).
I tried to make a new thread about this but it never got posted, so I'll tack it onto the end of this one. If the above is actually what was heard on the end of the tape, IMO it is the end of a conversation that had started previously. What was the first part of the conversation? We can extrapolate backwards and predict it was something like this:
BR: Did you find Jonbenet?
One or both parents: No!
If this was the conversation that took place, it indicates several things to me:
1. BR had just recently walked to the location of the phone where the 911 call was being placed.
2. BR may have been involved in the parent's fake search for JB early that morning, except for him it was a real search.
3. BR knew nothing at all about the crime to be asking this question.
4. BR knew the parents found something but didn't know what it was. In fact it was the RN they had supposedly found. He was asking about the RN but they would not tell him.
5. When JR told BR "We aren't talking to you now!" it tells me that he was totally focused on the 911 call PR was making and didn't want BR interrupting them. JR was basically telling BR not to bother them right now.
Questions along this line of thought:
1. Why was JR very angry?
2. Who was he very angry at?
Your thoughts? For the purpose of discussion, assume that this is the conversation between BR and the parents at the end of the 911 call. If it is, what else does it tell us? Brainstorm.
EDIT TO ADD: Although I am not IDI, I recognize that if the Ramsey parents really had no idea what was going on, we can easily envision the above scenario, which does not appear to be scripted for BR's sake. The strong emotion in the normally cool and collected JR shows it is not an act but that he is reacting to something unpredicted and out of his control. This would fit IDI, but there are other explanations for it. One is this: JR is very angry because PR insisted on calling 911, against his wishes and outside of his control. He is angry because this has disrupted his plans about not having LE called to the house so early meaning he is not going to have time to get the body out of the house (which he planned to do in support of the RN) before LE arrived.
I think the telling thing is the emotion.
Anger, not distress.
5. Sounds correct to me. Interpreted this way suggests the R's are colluding together, with BR asking one too many questions?
BR may have staged JonBenet in her bedroom, the parents have completed their staging and BR is anxious to know what they found, possibly in JonBenet's bedroom? But the parents are attempting to limit what BR knows, so he gets no answers to his questions and is told to return to bed and act out his prescribed role, i.e. BR may not know JonBenet is in the wine-cellar?
I'm trying to make sense of what you said here. Are you suggesting that BR murdered JB on his own and staged her in her bedroom before the parents restaged her in the basement? Are you saying BR didn't know the parents had found the body, and the parents just restaged her on their own without even confronting BR about what he did? That is how I interpret what you said. If that is what you are saying then I find that scenario totally unbelievable on multiple levels.
Yes, that is telling but the purpose of my post is not to show that JR did not believe in the fake kidnapping. We assume JR never believed the RN and fake kidnapping. The purpose is to look at what JR's emotions reveal, if we believe he was very angry. I have speculated on this long and hard, and here is some additional thoughts:
JR is not angry at BR for asking a perfectly reasonable question. His anger is centered around the 911 call PR is making. Now, if we think about that it is very revealing. Why would he be angry? JR strikes me as a control freak who likes to have everything planned and keep his plans. For example, his plans to leave Boulder that morning by plane. Even his daughter's murder wasn't going to make him change those plans. Anything unpredicted and out of his control would not be welcome. He could be angry because his daughter is missing and this is going to interrupt his plans that he had made to leave town that morning. That is an IDI explanation for it, but I don't believe in IDI so let's look at the alternative: JR is angry that this 911 call is even being placed by PR. It is happening because she insists on calling 911 on discovery of her daughter missing and the RN. Yes, I know this goes against the theory that PR wrote the RN and may have participated in the murder and definitely participated in the cover up, but I am just telling you what this little snippet of conversation indicates to me: JR does not want the police involved in this matter yet. He knows JB is dead. He knows where her body is hidden. The RN was constructed in such a way to warn PR not to call the police but she was so panicked that she didn't even read the warnings and just called 911. So JR is angry that his plan has failed and now he has a real crisis on his hands that he is going to have to deal with, namely LE is going to be coming to their house to investigate a kidnapping, and his daughter's dead body is hidden in the house. In other words, this little conversation reveals the murderer as JR and clears both PR and BR.
My theory is that Patsy wrote the note and was helping out with the staging but at some point she refused to go along with something (most likely the dumping of the body) and she got on the phone with 911 not caring if nothing made sense, she wanted JB recovered.
An interesting theory you have there that might go along with this little conversation. Ok, let's assume PR did write the RN as most people think. In that case she knows JB is dead and in the house. JB's body may be very well hidden so LE may not be able to find it, but it is still in the house. Logically, it is a risk for PR to call LE over to the house at that point since they may discover the dead body and from handwriting analysis they may discover the RN is in her writing, directly implicating her in the murder.
But let's say that JR wants to dump the body and PR absolutely refuses to go along with that and so she overrides JR and calls police anyway because she wants LE to find the body. It would be illogical for her to do that but I could see it, since PR is more emotional than logical. In that case JR would be very angry at PR because she was interfering with his plan of making a convincing RN/kidnapping and now he is he is going to have to deal with the dead body being in the house while LE is there. Yes, I can see this scenario.
Some thoughts/speculations, all jmo:
I think it's right on about JR being a control freak. He could be angry that PR went and called 911 when she wasn't supposed to and he was angry at that. I think PR wrote the note, so she had to know that JB was dead, so I don't buy her calling and not knowing anything. She very well may have called and not cared if it all made sense, which it doesn't.
Now spitballing about about BR saying, "Well what did you find?" I realize this may not be a popular opinion, and it's not really my own opinion, just a thought. What if BR was with JB, what ever happened happened and JB ends up dead. (I say whatever happened not too get too much into the details.) BR panics, gets scared and just leaves her and goes back up to bed. PR/JR either heard her scream, or maybe wake up to take her to the bathroom and find her. The staging goes from there. BR comes down and asks that to see if his parents have found JB where he had left her for dead. I realize it's a reach for this scenario, and again, just speculating.
I'll ask you the same question I asked UKGuy which he didn't answer. Are you saying the parents would discover her dead body and not even confront BR about what he did before they stage her body in the basement? If you are, I have trouble seeing that. Why would they not at least ask BR what happened before they did the staging? You have to explain that to me before I would ever believe that.
I've always been more on the thought he said "please or well, what do I do?? Just my thought on it. And want to 2nd the opinion of JR having control issues. I agree he could have been angry at PR for calling 911 before "the fort was secure"...he showed no support for her or comfort like a husband would do normally even after they found JBR dead. Or that's what I got from statements from witness/detectives that were there. He was angry at PR, either for botching their coverup w/ early call, the ridiculous ransom note, or just built up resentment over time. I've always viewed PR as maybe being a borderline type with maybe some histrionics to boot! Lol.. Im analyzing even when i try not too, LOL!! Anyhoo, with Borderline/histrionics, I know that they drain you, and many hold deep resentments through time..
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BBM. Or because she killed their daughter? I am not saying that is the fact, only that it is another possibilty.
I have always thought both of their actions regarding each other pointed to that possibility. JR, although resigned to protecting her and their image, still angry as heck that she had caused JB's death. PR calling half of boulder to come over and act as a buffer, as well as give her the sympathy she no doubt felt she deserved but was not going to get from John.
Again, I am not saying this is my absolute theory, I don't have one. I just think it is a possible additional explanation.
I agree, but according to the IDI crowd, which includes John Douglas (if one believes that he is honestly IDI which I am not convinced of) they found their daughter missing and a RN on the stairs and never even woke Burke up to ask him if he heard anything.
I'm not sold on one theory either, the level of dysfunction here and family dynamics make it unfortunately easily any of them. Or all of them guilty or having a hand in it.
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